Water by the River

Let me try to answer your questions as brief as possible. That is challenging, because the Mahamudra system is technically very complex with many stages. I like to compare Zen/Theravada to cutting a tree with an axe, while Mahamudra is something like a forest harvester: The axe was available already in stone-age and worked, robust and slow. The forest harvester needs precise handling and thorough understanding & training, but is waaay faster. Anyway, lets try the impossible at least roughly. Here is my main thread of the explanation on Mahamudra in the Pointing out the Great Way style (Daniel Brown, 600 page book, around 200-300 pages on the juicy main-practice-stages of Mahamudra). To give you an idea/feeling (not really possible to do in brief, but I try): The description of two main steps: Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste (One Taste = Nondual) Lets start with Stage 1 of 4, Skill of Recognition It is a "High-Speed-Search-Task into Nature of thoughts, into the "Unfindability/Emptiness" of thoughts. They evaporate when looking into their nature. The nature of every emerging thought/concept, emerging out of Infinite Consciousness/Absolute Reality): And the nature of thoughts is its unfindability: Thoughts have no location, they are "made"/essence out of Infinite Consciousness. Thoughts dissolve when looking into their nature (Aware Empty Infinite Consciousness). One can never "find" a thought. They dissolve when looking into their essence. They move within onself, and dissolve when looking into them And that process/phenomenon is used. and with that cutting off (=Trekchö), since its nature is empty Infinite Consciousness/Suchness. Consciousness literally stops the thought then. At one point when one is fast enough, one sees the order of emergence IN the Infinite Mind is Understanding or just some other cause Thought emergence (fully formed, fully emerging in mili-seconds, but not yet "elaborated-out" over several seconds) being elaborated out over a part of a second to several seconds) And step 3 doesn't happen then. It is cut off. THAT is was brings Awakened States (nondual, boundless, basically if done fast enough. The thought "capsules" start emerging faster and faster then, 10-20 thoughts capsules per second+, and at some point Awareness stays "on top" of even that. That is where the magic starts (Nonduality begins developing, and the mindstream can get silent, bliss starts flowing. A very discrete and "hard" psychological process). And that happens in the beginning phases still on the pillow, but can also happen very much in daily life when intensive thought activity is not necessary. Later, it becomes also possible with sophisticated intellectual/creative thinking, when Awareness has become strong enough to stay lucid THROUGH the thought-elaboration. No longer hypnotized, the creative/intellectual happening within oneself on auto-pilot. Awakened Awareness and its Infinite Intelligence tends to take over, the separate-self/ego gets out of the way. That makes it also much more effective, since the ego/separte-self tended to act as a filter. From this Awakenened Awareness all intelligence and creativity comes from anyway, that is why creativity is so highly valued and pleasurable. This Awakened Awareness is the source of bliss anyway.... So, then the next step described in this post (Stage 2, see link above, jumped due to the specific question of Leo for "daily" practice: Stage 3 of 4, Yoga of One Taste. One Taste = Nondual boundless consciousness. Getting that into daily life. When enough proficiency of creating lucid states with this High-Speed-Cutoff is generated, the Awareness/Lucidity doesn't get lost when thinking. It stays. And with it the Awakened States. And then daily life starts getting nondual, especially if no academic thinking is necessary (still large parts of the day). With academic style thinking/creative thinking, it takes more Lucidity/Training, but is doable. 2nd TOPIC OF THIS POST: God-Realization in your words, or "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And this (Yoga of One Taste) brings us then to the "base camp of Full Enlightenment", the "jumping platform" where Full Enlightenment can happen (some of which main aspects you refer to with God Realization): Stage 4, Yoga of Nonmeditation. I have written elsewhere about it, see link above. The Nondual Stages of Yoga of One Taste would get confirmed in other traditions (Zen for example) as Enlightenment/Satori/Kensho. But not Great/Full Enlightenment, or God-Realization in your wording. That is an "accident", for which Stage 3&4 make accident-prone. I agree with you that Emptiness/Void is neither God Realization nor Full Enlightenment, where also that "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality" is realized. I am starting more to understand why you emphasize that in your language/system of experience, and I agree on the importance of it. In Zen, there is a differentiation between just shallower Enlightenments (Kenshos, Satoris) into the empty nature of all appearance, or into emptiness. The separte-self can still be very alive then. The Full Enlightenment on the other side, the total dissolution of the separate-self, leaves one with exactly that realization: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." Although there is no more you, nor God, but Reality itself becoming consciousness OF itself IMAGINING itself as all there ever could be. This Enlightenment is probably between 10-50 less common than the real thing of Full Enlightenment. Probably that is why you are so annoyed with the large majority of Buddhist Enlightenments (either contemporarily claimed or described in literature). Let me give you four examples of that differentiation (I could give many more, but that would blast the post. Ok, I admit, its already blasted and way too long... forgive me). 1) Huang Po https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huangbo_Xiyun "One Mind Huángbò's teaching centered on the concept of “mind” (Chinese: hsin), a central issue for Buddhism in China for the previous two centuries or more. He taught that mind cannot be sought by the mind. One of his most important sayings was “mind is the Buddha”. He said: All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists [red by me]. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient beings.[8] He also said: To awaken suddenly to the fact that your own Mind is the Buddha [Nothing exists beside IT=God=Reality=True You], that there is nothing to be attained or a single action to be performed – this is the Supreme Way.[9]" 2) Yogachara school https://integrallife.com/toward-fourth-turning-buddhism/ "The very notion of the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form opened the door, as we briefly mentioned, to other even “stronger” versions of nonduality or (metaphoric!) Wholeness, one of the most prominent being the Yogachara, introduced by the half‑brothers Asanga (more of a brilliant innovator) and Vasubandhu (more of an acute synthesizer). Another name for their school—Vijnaptimatra—is usually translated as “Mind-only” or “Representation-only.” The point here is that the “not-twoness” of Emptiness and Form allowed some philosopher-sages to come up with other terms for the “Form” that was seamlessly conjoined with ultimate Emptiness or Shunyata, one of them being “Mind” itself. The idea was that “Mind” itself was the same as Emptiness—the Yogachara philosophers were adamant that they were talking about the same “unqualifiable” Emptiness that Nagarjuna was, but by also referring to it as “Mind” they were giving (some would say metaphorically, some would say absolutely) a type of compass that would help relate ultimate Emptiness to an everyday reality everybody was aware of (such as, namely, the Mind). The Zen saying, “The everyday mind, just that is the Tao (ultimate Truth)” is a good example of this type of Yogachara thinking. And it showed clearly how one could “bring everything to the path,” starting with your own, simple, everyday awareness. This opened so many other doors—especially Tantra and Vajrayana—that it is referred to as “The Third Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.” Buddhism has philosophically run a long way. Hinayana didn't even have the full Nondual Realization of Absolute Reality, Nagarjuna made Madyamaka (nothing can be said about Ultimate Reality). And where did it end? The philosophy all which pretty all sophisticated Tantric Buddhism system rely on? MIND-ONLY, Yogachara. We need to at least differentiate the 2500 year system of Buddhism into these development steps. If not, we are fighting with a "fossil-philosophy"... 3) The Supreme Source, one of the main texts of Dzogchen (quite close to the Mahamudra above, Brown uses Dzogchen and Mahamudra elements together): on which breathtaking beautiful absolute perpective you agreed: There is gold in Buddhism, Full Enlightenment, God Realization. And tools to make it stable in daily life. The later systems of Tantric Buddhism, but also Mahayana, have at their philosophic core Yogachara or Madhyamaka (I have written on that elsewhere). These two qualifications of Ultimate Reality are in line with what you call God Realization. 4) In Zen 3 pillars of Zen, Kapleau: Some quotes from that book: "ROSHI: With a first enlightenment the realization of oneness is usually shallow. Yet if one has genuinely perceived, even though dimly, and continues to practice devotedly for five or ten more years, this inner vision will expand in depth and magnitude as one’s character acquires flexibility and purity." The story of Bassui: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." "This way is no other than the realization of your own Mind. Now what is this Mind? It is the true nature of all sentient beings, that which existed before our parents were born and hence before our own birth, and which presently exists, unchangeable and eternal. So it is called one’s Face before one’s parents were born. This Mind is intrinsically pure. When we are born it is not newly created, and when we die it does not perish. It has no distinction of male or female, nor has it any coloration of good or bad. It cannot be compared with anything, so it is called Buddha-nature. Yet countless thoughts issue from this Selfnature as waves arise in the ocean or as images are reflected in a mirror. To realize your own Mind you must first of all look into the source from which thoughts flow And: Realization Emptiness, or Void, IS NOT YET FULL ENLIGHTENMENT: "In this propitious state deepen and deepen the yearning, tirelessly, to the extreme. When the profound questioning penetrates to the very bottom, and that bottom is broken open, not the slightest doubt will remain that your own Mind is itself Buddha, the Void-universe. There will then be no anxiety about life or death, no truth to search for. In a dream you may stray and lose your way home. You ask someone to show you how to return or you pray to God or Buddhas to help you, but still you can’t get home. Once you rouse yourself from your dream-state, however, you find that you are in your own bed and realize that the only way you could have gotten home was to awaken yourself. This [kind of spiritual awakening] is called “return to the origin” or “rebirth in paradise.” It is the kind of inner realization that can be achieved with some training. Virtually all who like zazen and make an effort in practice, be they laypeople or monks, can experience to this degree. But even such [partial] awakening cannot be attained except through the practice of zazen. You would be making a serious error, however, were you to assume that this was true enlightenment in which there is no doubt about the nature of reality. You would be like one who having found copper gives up the desire for gold." Or: Not yet Full Enlightenment-Realization. "But even now repeatedly cast off what has been realized, turning back to the subject that realizes, that is, to the root bottom, and resolutely go on. Your Self-nature will then grow brighter and more transparent as your delusive feelings perish, like a gem gaining luster under repeated polishing, until at last it positively illumines the entire universe [infinite nondual mere appearance boundlessness of ones nondual limitless being then]." "You must understand that anything appearing in your consciousness or seen by your eyes is an illusion [imagined], of no enduring reality. Hence you should neither fear nor be fascinated by such phenomena. If you keep your mind as empty as space, unstained by extraneous matters, no evil spirits can disturb you even on your deathbed. While engaged in zazen, however, keep none of this counsel in mind. You must only become the question “What is this Mind?” or “What is it that hears these sounds?” When you realize this Mind you will know that it is the very source of all Buddhas and sentient beings. And that ends in Full Enlightenment: "keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present [they all have been expressions of this Infinite Mind of yours, of the only Reality there is or could be, dreaming up all these worlds]." There is nothing else than: "You become conscious of God as an Infinite Mind dreaming up reality." And that becomes stable in daily life when there is no longer a separate-self, but only Reality. God. True Nature. Whatever one wants to call "It" then... And that Ultimate Reality is Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. "It" is both nothing/impersonal, but also everything there could be imagined. It is Reality itself. The True Core of each being. As long as something of a remaining separate-self projected on it, its not stable in daily life. The remains of that separate-self will also "colour" all higher insights/realizations. Bliss doesn't flow yet full time, so the suffering will make the being continue and refine anything that is not conforming to this Ultimate Reality, ones True being. Or according to Huang Po, The One [Infinite] Mind that dreams or imagines it all up all Reality. Water by the River PS: Ok, yours truly confesses: short is it not, the post.... But please don't hit me too hard, took some time to write, and I got plenty of other things to do also.

And that is ok. I didn't do too much sitting meditation (still 100s of hours/maybe in the lower 1000s, but not excessive Zen/Theravada-style 10.000s of hours monk fulltime stuff), but walked the path of Mahamudra/Dzogchen (with 1000s of hours of meditation, but in daily life over 15 years+), with taking the meditation early into daily life (and not just mindfulness, but high-speed thought-cut-off Trekchö), and that got pleasant quite early on. Here is a summary of that step: And many other "Pointing out the Great Way" Propaganda-posts in my post-achieve, just check for "Pointing out the Great Way". Here is a summary of the path, and my experience with that path: The path of Mahamudra/Dzogchen (Tibetan Buddhism) described for example in Brown, Pointing out the Great Way (and the other books of Brown) is in my experience unique in efficiency. With Zen or Theravada meditation-system, I would have needed the 1000s-10.000s of hours and years of sitting meditation, with an unassured outcome. Of that I am sure. Please feel invited to take a look at that system. Maybe it is the system you are looking for. I feel very similiar like you describe in your post when looking at most other meditation-systems I am aware of (and I read about pretty much all of the major ones, on some more, on some less), but not this one. I have a quite successful entrepreneurial and business career, and a happy marriage. And a hobby besides all this transcendence stuff. It is possible. Well, lets see what life brings... Yes. Yet, all beings automatically karmically go from life to life, growing and wising up in the long run, orienting themselves to less suffering. With the classic methods of compassion and becoming more aware of the mindstream, normally not too much damage can be done, and suffering tends to get less. And then maybe some psychedelics from time to time to contact the eternal... And yes, one should to good to oneself, and not multiply suffering with anything. Eternity will not run away... Water by the River

Namaste! That is beautiful. Thank you. Water by the River

You would be the first one for whom that bliss-out has worked permanently without the comprehension or Realization of Full Enlightenment by just shutting off the mind and sitting still. I see. If you mean the manifestations/appearances/Awakenings n+1 that Consciousness can produce WITHIN it and become aware of it, awaken to it ever more: It is endless. In that way, you also don't comprehend it. And never finally will or can. Its God business exploring what it/God can do, its potential, forever. We are the instruments of the Reality/God doing that. It will never stop, never run out of new Awakeninsg. An Infinity of Infinties, as already Cantor has shown. But I do comprehend the Absolute, or my True Nature, and the nature of the dream. And with that all possible dreams. And that ends the separate-self, and the psychological suffering. And with that, we align. And I am, and will remain, a big fan of your explorations and Awakenings. Just have some mercy on your followers: Many of them don't have the potential you have of exploring the Multiverse/Consciousness, and just suffer more if they don't pursue the classic path to the end of suffering, the end of the separate-self contraction, or Full Enlightenment, and go instead for exploring the Infinite Infinities of Reality. Most of them will probably not reach Full Enlightenment in this life, but it is not the only life they have. It is growth over a long cycle of lifes (see for example Jürgen Ziewe, http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html ). Maybe they have to learn their individual package in this life? Setting these up for the path of the (fascinating and important) exploration of the Infinity of Dimensions of Reality and ever higher Awakenings into Consciousness (your Karma) will lead to additional suffering on their side. Maybe there is balance possible that honours the respect, beauty and splendour of Gods creations, ever higher Awakenings and becoming more consciousness (that I don't denie at all), and the path each soul is traveling towards its True Being? To minimize suffering for all possible beings? Water by the River

Yes. Javfly33, every being ends up with that insight after having been beaten enough by INFINITELY large and Infinitely Intelligent Reality. Every being suffers as long as all these mindsets of doing something else than trying to finding permanent bliss persist. And even in doing or prefering something else they just do something that brings bliss or peace or good emotions, even when searching ever new Awakenings n+1, or getting maximum conscious, whatever that means in the individual case). So, its just the question of a) learning by suffering by trying the 1000+1 games separate-selfs play, and seeing that they all fail in bringing permanent happiness. Takes a longer time, but is the nature of this game/lila/universe and its Raison d'Être (the Lila-Show) or b) learning by insight and going straight to the finish line, or back home to ones True Being: Full Enlightenment. The Deep Identity Shift to being the Infinite Reality itself, the one without a second, or Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. All I am trying to do is highlighting this little dynamic how the Absolute "throws" itself out into manifestation, form, the many, separate-self, and PULLS itself back home either by suffering or insight. And valueing a) higher as b), or a) being somehow spiritual superior to b). In a certain way, I am spoiling the game/Lila of a). But just look at the reactions, I am very sure I won't spoil it for too many... Water by the River

And "insane levels of consciousness" or "insigh" into what? Appearance/Form/Arisings IN Absolute Reality. N+1, evermore, forever. You never "arrive" somewhere (IT is infinite and Infinity). And while doing that and not being fully enlightened (or BEING Ones True Nature, Absolute Reality): Suffering in cycles. "I have never claimed that psychedelics result in the lack of suffering." But at least I got the message that the end of psychological suffering (or Full Enlightenment) was declared impossible, or at least as lower in value or priority (like in "spiritual summom bonum, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summum_bonum) to ever new and higher Awakenings. Please correct me if I got the wrong impression. Look, exploring Reality with ever new Awakenings: Wonderful, I am all for it! It is the future of Humanity, and you are a pioneer. There are literally endless dimensions to be explored. By the way, do you know the work of Jurgen Ziewe (longtime Out of body explorer, with legit Enlightenment experiences)? (http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Model_of_the_Multidimensional_Universe.html ; http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Higher_Mental_Planes_or_Heaven_Worlds.html ; http://www.multidimensionalman.com/Multidimensional-Man/Life_after_death_-_a_description_of_the_afterlife.html ) for example. I am sure you would love it. The only problem I see is giving that higher exploration of ever higher Awakenings n+1 more value/priority over stabilzing in ones True Being (Full Enlightenment). Because it will lead to more suffering for many, including you. That is as far as I can see that is pretty much the only point where we have different perspectives. And please take care that you dont take some demons/angels (sorry old fashioned wording from a few centuries ago) Aliens of the not so well meaning kind (Jaques Valle, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers; Charles Upton, The Alien Disclosure Deception; Graham Hancock, Supernatural) back home from the exploration, and go really insane and not just a bit alien insane. And that is meant not ironically, but well meaning and respectfully. Hic sunt dracones. All the best for your future journey, and same for all forum participants. Really. Water by the River

But if one can access the Absolute at will (the visual field as boundless timeless infinite nondual mere appearance), switch off the self-contraction/separate-self (and its suffering included) at will if it dares to raise its ugly head again, and STAY in that Ultimate Impersonal Reality... that says something about (to use your words) how conscious "one" is. Well, you can turn it around it all the ways you want. The fact that Ultimate Reality is not stable accessible and suffering continues is the hallmark of the psychedelic-afficionados, from all I have seen so far. How come Infinitely intelligent Reality doesn't let the psychedelic afficionado rest blissfully in True Nature? Why does suffering not stop in that case? Because Infinitely Intelligent Ultimate Reality doesn't want that (nor could it, even if "it" wanted) a not fully transcended ego/separate-self stays there blissed out and proclaims "that is the highest". IT is IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness. With Impersonal in bold letters. And until that is delivered by fully transcending and killing the separate-self-arisings in normal life, there is practice of transcedence and "dying to the lower identites" to be done. The suffering is what pulls a separate-self back to its True Nature, Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, or Reality itself (including the manifest show in a nondual way). Honestly, if there ever has been one big warning sign dangling on top of all of that proclaimed "highest Awakeninsg n+1", it is what described in the paragraph above. Suffering continues. And Reality will make you suffer until you get that. Cruel game? Not really, no one gets left behind halfway up the mountain, in the suffering of the claws of the self-contraction of the separate-self, until that is fully transcended and gone. And going exploring the Multiverse in ever "higher" Awakenings ."Higher" into what? The Absolute can not be higher or lower, only form/manifestation/appearance/arisings WITHIN IT. So its higher Awakenings into ever more relative appearing arisings, not the Absolute. And that will just prolong that suffering. Please prove me wrong. If you don't shut down the show here, we all are in the prime seats to watch it. Anyway, bon voyage! Water by the River

I have read pretty much all material from Adyashanti and Nisargadatta. Both certainly are fully enlightened, and for sure have not remained in the void. Reading Nisargadatta that is totally clear in many writings, but also at many places in the writings of Adyashanti that is also very clear. Same with Ralston. 100% clear. On Sadguru I can't tell. A few videos I have seen did not convince me at all, to say the least, but I could be wrong. 2 signs that what you call Infinity is not the final end of the story: 1) you can't access it stably in daily life and 2) you would be able to tell concerning Adyashanti, Spira and Nisargadatta. If its Ultimate Reality or the Absolute, it HAS to be always here, and HAS to be always accessible once realized. Everything else is just a state that is once there, and then poof gone, no more accessible. IT is always right here. Sorry that I am so direct. From all I have seen, psychedelics lead "there" and to what you describe, but not beyond. Water by the River

Ok, here comes a wild mix: Ralston. Then Daniel Brown, and his teacher Lungtok Tenpai Nyima (both deceased). But Daniel Brown left the "best of teachings" that Nyima gave him from the Bon Traditions of Tibetan Buddhism to translate into english. That is in my opinion the best system currently on the planet, highly sophisticated and overlooked by far compared to more simpler/robust teachings like Zen/Theravada and so on. Shardza Rinpoche, translated by Brown. I assume what kind of treasure that is will become clearer in the next decades and centuries. The Tibetans have done that for a Millenia with utmost determination. Shankara, crest jewel of discrimination. And quite some more if you want to know. But that is already more than necessary for a quite complete, wholesome and integral path right up the mountain top. Sure, some side-peaks (relative stuff) are maybe better reached by other teachings/paths/methods, but these are side-peaks in the form/arising/appearance-realm. But for the Absolute, or the Mountain-Peak, that is enough. Good Night Water by the River

Believe me, I know its utterly complex. I had the same problem for a long time. That is why I was really relieved when I started getting what they were all talking about. At the end, it takes Enlightenment to know what you are and to really confirm what Reality is. Nothing short will fully do. In the meantime: Heart and Brain go a long way: Listen to your heart, and if your Intuition (which is a big part of your Karma) is good enough, it will lead you somewhere good. Look for love in the teacher, true compassion. But also use your brain. The Absolute is well defined, across the traditions. See Wilber, Nisargadatta, Ramana, Jac O'Keffee, Wolinsky, Balsekar for that. If you understand what Wilber writes about Madyamaha, you can not go far off track. I think he has a good passage on that in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. I will check where is main essay on that is tomorrow, and will post it. Good night everbody. Bon voyage! Selling Water by the River PS: quote from:

Multiple Absolutes? The mountains are form/appearance appearing IN the Absolute. Even the formless realms still are arisings/appearances in Infinite Consciousness/Reality/True You. Absolute: Oneness and Infinite? Or not? But also yes: Many paths don't lead up to the mountain top (Absolute), but on other side-peaks (arising IN the Absolute, aka form/appearance/arising). Or is there no Absolute in your view? Or several? Water by the River

Don't you see it in his videos (at least in some its quite obvious)? His state? The reason why he continues to engage with the topic of Enlightenment and the Absolute to "others"? Don't you think it would be easier for him to stay removed from the world in the bliss of his realization? Why doesn't he do that? Love. To stay remote, in ones own bliss, and not engage the ignorance of the world is the easiest thing to do at a certain point. But shortly after that point, you realize you are all beings. Literally. And that realization.... Love. Water by the River

I did Leo. For a long time. When they are fully enlightened and point towards the Absolute, they align. If they point to relative stuff, even the fully enlightened ones can disagree. I know it is difficult to align all these traditions and teachers. I know what confirmation bias is, but I also do know what they are talking about. And if they are "there" or not. Since you ask me to keep an open mind on that, I kindly ask you to do the same. Water by the River

They align in the Absolute (by definition), if they have realized it. By definition, because there can only be one Infinite Absolute. And if they have realized, their pointers need to point in the same "direction". They disagree on their understanding of the mechanisms of form/appearance. As is to be expected. That is also a nice indicator to see if we are talking about the Absolute, or relative stuff... and that is where much of the confusion and perceived non-alignment comes from. Water by the River

On Sadhguru I have big doubts, yet I don't know him in detail. And even then: What is the big importance of Mahasamadhi? Is Absolute Reality not always already here eternally?

Then let me have the cases which you consider fully enlightened that don't align. I will try to align them and their pointers if the pointers are about the Absolute, and the examples know what they are talking about. "Rupert Spira says that solpsism is madness. Ramana Maharshi says there are no others. Rupert Spira says consciousness is love, Ralston says love is just an emotion. " I could align that. All 4 cases know what they are talking about. Spira: Solipsism from the perspective of an unenlightened separate self is madness. From the unenlighened mindstream Solipsism is just not true, because the "I" refered to is not the Absolute, or Impersonal Infintie Consciousness, Reality itself. Ramana: From the Absolute perspective there are no others. But that needs Enlightenment, and a deep identity shift towards Infinite Impersonal Consciousness, Reality itself. If one is then inclined to talk fully from the Absolute Side of the street: No problem. Spira: Consciousness is love: Ones True Nature, Impersonal Infinite Consciousness opens the mindstream towards love and bliss, or loving all that is and arises. Very clear once enlightened. Ralston: Love an emotion in the meaning that some mindstreams show a little bit of it sometimes, others more often, the permanently enlightened mindstream needs that as basis to stay enlightened/awakened, but also produces that love as result of staying in ones nature on a consistent basis. It is a perspective on love as state that can dominate a mindstream or not. Water by the River

... and that is called Tantric Buddhism, or Vajrayana. What you describe with the focus on Nirvana and the excessive focus on the end of suffering and so on comes from the early forms of Buddhism. https://www.shambhala.com/historical-introduction-excerpt-integral-buddhism/ One Taste, Wilber: "The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as “Tantric,” these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion. They enter with awareness the nine rings of hell, for nowhere else are the nine heavens found. Nothing is alien to them, for there is nothing that is not One Taste. Indeed, the whole point is to be fully at home in the body and its desires, the mind and its ideas, the spirit and its light. To embrace them fully, evenly, simultaneously, since all are equally gestures of the One and Only Taste. To inhabit lust and watch it play; to enter ideas and follow their brilliance; to be swallowed by Spirit and awaken to a glory that time forgot to name. Body and mind and spirit, all contained, equally contained, in the ever-present awareness that grounds the entire display. In the stillness of the night, the Goddess whispers. In the brightness of the day, dear God roars. Life pulses, mind imagines, emotions wave, thoughts wander. What are all these but the endless movements of One Taste, forever at play with its own gestures, whispering quietly to all who would listen: is this not you yourself? When the thunder roars, do you not hear your Self? When the lightning cracks, do you not see your Self? When clouds float quietly across the sky, is this not your very own limitless Being, waving back at you?" The blue part is literal. It is not poetic. Bon voyage! Water by the River PS: When considering "buying" Buddhism, don't just buy the Iphone 2 (Theravada, Hinayana). At least consider the Iphone 14, or some forms of Tantric Buddhism. Comes with Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and uhm, the juicy stuff: Tantra. Below: "Hevajra in union with his consort Nairātmyā". What exactly are they doing? Heaven and Earth, Consciousness and form, Emptiness and Appearance madly in loving union, dancing the cosmic dance in embrace until the end of time...

Hm... I do see if they point at the moon. And I know if they have seen fully seen the moon and know what they are talking about. Or not. If they have fully seen it, they all align perfectly. The language and pointeres are vastly different, just take Buddhism pointing more from the Emptiness- or Madhyamaka side, and Vedanta pointing from the Eternal Consciousness side. But having seen the moon, one can tell if they talk and point to the moon. Doesn't matter if they are dead since 1000 years... Why is that? At the moon, all duality or concepts or pointers collapse. Since they all only have meaning because they have an opposite. And Reality doesn't have an opposite. Yet, it can be pointed to. And these pointers can be evaluated. They disagree on relative stuff for sure, where they can be blatantly (!) wrong (see for example Zen at war, Victoria). On the Absolute, they align. If they have realized it. Water by the River

When I "look" into the essence of every concept, there is THAT. Suchness. Infinite Consciousness. Reality itself. Buddhism is a bundle of concepts and thoughts sometimes floating and moving within That which I am. I am happy with any pointer, concept or -ISM as long as it points efficiently to what You, Reality, every other being and also my true essence really is. Some pointers and systems of pointers do, some rather not. Luckily, I know the spring and don't need to drink out of the jar, and can now tell from my own experience which pointers point in the right direction and which not. Don't worry, the time where concepts could cloud what I really am, and make me truly believe in any of them, is long gone. Yet, it is interesting that you say you are able see to see into my mind concerning the transcendence of Buddhism (and its concepts). Telepatic Skills? I assume you somehow deduct it from my writing . You have never met me, so you can't know for sure which states of consciousness I am in. But well, if it seems it is easier to put me into the "Buddhism-box", it is fine. I can assure you that Reality is not Buddhism. It is beyond all of that, and on that we agree, and there we do meet. Already. Water by the River PS: I wish you all the best concerning your health. Get well soon.

Yes. All there is is Suchness, or Consciousness. Nondual. "IT" is also the only consciousness "thing" that can perceive anything. Since there is only "itself" (all appearances, every world/dimension), It can only perceive "itself". Normally as an "other", not nondual. But that also means, since "it" is the only consciousness "thing" there is: "It" can only understand itself. There is nothing else. "Enlightenment is an accident. Practice makes accident prone.": We can call that "accident" of Enlightenment whatever we want: IT/Absolute is also infinitely intelligent, and an infinite network of perspectives/holons within Indras Net has to align/"approve"/whatever before ones perspective (the sentient being/you) understands/gets what "It" is ("Full Enlightenment"). There is nothing to be done at THAT point of practice, because any doing would be an arising/movement of thoughts/intentions in consciousness. An a movement of thought/ego is FORM, an appearance, and arising, starting-moving-ending IN THAT/Consciousness/Reality/You. So that is not "It". At the right state, it can happen. That state needs to be cultivated normally over a longtime (practice makes accident-prone). From (for example a description from the Mahamudra-system, but that step-logic of practice is in most systems): Yoga of One Taste (=already nondual) cultivating that state in which the accident can happen, to Yoga of Nonmeditation, in which all activity is stopped, and the meditation does itself, keeping the field nondual, boundless, timeless, mere appearance. In that state the reckognition can happen. When God/The Absolute/The Totality of Indras Net "aligns" and "says yes", "you" get enlightened (the accident). At that point it is grace, Karma, brain chemistry, an act of all of Reality/the Universe/whatever one wants to call it. God/Being/Reality suddenly understanding itself in THAT perspective that is your mindstream of this life. And its impersonal, its not what you think what you are, but what you really are. And the fact that its impersonal is not bad at all... And if Absolute Reality "says": No. Then not today darling... Please more preparation for the "accident". Then, not today darling... Even with DMT. Ok, probably I have confused pretty much everybody with the twisted musings above, but maybe it is useful for some. Water by the River

Yes. or: Nietzsche: God is dead. God: Nietzsche is dead. God (if one is inclined to call it so. Absolute Reality comes a bit less... "God-loaden") contains the ego. But the ego ist for sure not God. The essence of the ego is the same essence as everything else. The ego may think its God, but... well, you know the rest. Actually it is not so difficult to get, both in theory in practice, but apparently its just too much fun for certain egos to consider themselves God. Well, the show made out of that confusion (ego=God) here is .... well. Great Show IMPERSONAL Infinite Consciousness. Which is the same as EMPTY Infinite Consciousness. Which is Reality. That contains it all, ego & character & reality & all the rest. An example: The Reality/essence of a gold ring is gold. If the ring is molten, the essence is still the same. So the essence/God/Reality/Infinite Impersonal Consciousness IS the gold, not the ring. To say the Reality/God is the Ring is incorrect, because the ring can be gone. The ring thinking it is all that exists = Conceptual Solipsism. The gold/IMPERSONAL Empty Infinite Consciousness understanding/realizing its Reality = True Nondual "Solipsism". But if there is only One, or better Oneness, whats the point of talking about Solipsism? To whom? Then the ring is no longer believed. It is seen through. It stops existing as being anything more than an Illusion-arising. Telling other rings/Egos "you are God" only boosts the ring, the clouding over of the actual state of things. It is a trap. What is never the case: Ego = God. Ego = an arising within God/Reality. A part of it. Contained in it. One ring appearing in and made out of an infinite Sea of gold/Impersonal Consciousness/Reality. That is why Awakening is not stable for Psychedelic-only aficionados. Psychedelics "bomb" large parts of the ego/separate self out of functionality (but not all of them), stoppling large parts of the clouding over of the true state of things, revealing larger parts of how Reality/True Nature really is. But not all of them. And especially not when off the trip. And that is why suffering doesn't stop. Ego=separate self= self contraction = regular suffering. Water by the River

Yes. 10. Return to Society Barefooted and naked of breast, I mingle with the people of the world. My clothes are ragged and dust-laden, and I am ever blissful. I use no magic to extend my life; Now, before me, the dead trees become alive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Bulls

Reminds me of a joke: A guy dies and is sent to hell. Extremely frightened because of that, he is very surprised when he arrives; beach, palm trees, sun is shining, happy people around in shorts and bikinis. Behind the next corner there are people eating great food and there's some cool music playing. After some time of wondering, a man in an expensive suit approaches him and says: "Hi, you must be the new one. Welcome to hell, I'm the devil. As you're gonna spend eternity here, make yourself comfortable and have a drink. If anything bothers you, always feel free to ask me." The guy still doesn't really understand what's going on, this is not what he expected. But finally he decides to inspect the area. Everywhere he goes, there are people laughing and having a great time, there's games, party and fun all around. Then he arrives at a steep cliff that divides the paradise hell from an area underneath, and there is hell as we know it: demons torturing the doomed, there's fire and the smell of brimstone. Shocked, he runs to the devil and says "Devil, how can that be? Here, we have the sweet eternity and down there people are tortured and burned! How can that be?!" The devil laughs and says "Oh, that. That's the Catholics - they want it that way." Yes. Anyway, no big disagreements. You are on the path, which is all that counts. I am just making commercials of the lovely holiday-destination soon to be reached, so to say. And understanding that is extremly valueable. The contraction that kicks in shortly before fully waking up while slumbering, if you ever had that kind of experience. It is a very real and feelable contraction in the head, that at least I couldn't dissolve when I first started noticing it while waking up. It is that contraction that evaporates into/"becoming" the visual field/Infinity when nondual awakened states start to begin/kick in. And when that contraction/self-contraction is dissolved during waking-life, suffering is just not more possible. Vast spacious tension-free Suchness of Reality, no thought-arising "gripping". It is that what one searches in every experience one normally seeks. It is that self-contraction/localization (often in the head) that psychedelics tend to blast away, among doing other stuff also. Imagine you could do that with just cutting your thought-stream and staying "on-top" of it, watching it (the thought stream) spool down in you, but not "gripping" "you". That is a wonderful relief, physically and energetically felt in the body. It is not escapism, its an additional degree of freedom to live ones life from that state. That is not the end of the story, a subtle identity (althought non-localized) is still left-over after this point, but here its starts to get really lovely. Selling Water by the River

Yes. As a very experienced meditator with longterm-practice and seasoned in Awakening one can do two things a) completely shut off the thought-flow: A high-speed cut-off at the beginning stage of a thought-emergence. The thought doesn't look like a thought in this earliest emergence phase of it, more like a ripening "seed" that is cut off. Lots of training until that point... And to continue that high-speed-cutoff of emerging thought "capsules" can stop the thought-flow completely. Until having had it, hard to imagine. b) second, and much more important: Staying lucid while thinking, "riding" with ones awareness on the thought-stream. Pretty impossible to describe, stems partly from the ability to do a) . That skill allows to carry the meditation/awareness into daily life. It also causes (due to its momentum in daily life more so than a), since one cant act/work without a thought flow running) the Awakened States of nonduality/one with the visual field, mere appearance (solidity of visual field removed), timelessness (time is imagined right here in THAT), boundlessness (any limit would be imagined in THAT. All of the states that psychedelics also cause. But "without the pill". And it also it cuts the separate-self-contraction in the head which just dissolves, opening up a flow of bliss that is so strong to just overpower the suffering that the remaining separate-self tends to cause in cycles. These are "hard" states of consciousness, not some wishful thinking or some soft states. The separate-self/ego main-building block is regular suffering/being unsatisfied, rejecting or wanting something that is not present in that state, seeking it, getting it or not getting it, and suffering again. Water by the River

funny, hm? When you hit yourself with a hammer on the knee that is also illusory. Same as with the separate-self that you mostly consider yourself to be during everday life (at least I assume). It hurts (not all the time, but regularly), and if you don't know how to switch that off and release the self-contraction, you are going to suffer. Illusion yes, but suffering. yes. And? You prefer the suffering over the bliss? Oh yes there is. It feels quite similiar what you get when to go for a trip. Except one doesn't need the psychedelic then. Dissolving the self-contraction/duality/suffering with on-board-devices, independend of the 5-MeO or whatever, and having a blissfull nondual state of infinite release. The visual field turning into mere appearance/clear light "hovering" in infinite consciousness. Ones true being, right here, right now. No more clouds of ignorance/self-contraction. The suffering IS the mechanism that never lets the separate-self or self-contraction stop seeking and suffering until it is dissolved in its True Being. After doing that long enough, there is a deep switching point of identity and access to this flow of bliss. Its called Full Enlightenment. Look forward to it! That is actually way better news of your(!) Potential than anything you wrote of in your post. It is your own potential, your True Nature. I am not telling you to do anything different (as practice) than what you are doing right now, but just consider to stop declaring heaven inexistent. You know, its a grave sin listed in the Catechism of the Catholic Church to declare heaven non-existant Water by the River