Water by the River

Very True. Allow me some musings (in general, not specifically to your answer), since this is an important point. The Absolute Reality can only be described/approached with a) what it is not (in-finite, silent, Abyss, Nothing-"ness"), via negative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology), Nagarjuna Madyamaka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā). Although Yogachara/Consciousness only school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara) extended that to Infinite Consciousness (which is true), we are already on a slippery slope here giving the Absolute limitations and (relative) properties. b) pointers showing a path to practices (actual practices, not just concepts) that can generate certain nondual awakened states in which the realization of it (Reality itself and ones True Self) can happen by itself ("Enlightenment"). By removing the filters/clouds of the ego and BEING infinite reality itself. Why? Because all these pointers appear WITHIN Absolute Reality. Can an infinite ocean define and realize itself fully using only water as pointer in an infinite "mass" of water? So we can describe the waves of the ocean and what the ocean does, and how it confuses all the waves to think they are waves. But we can never describe the infinite ocean fully with concepts. For that, one has to be it and realize it. And for that, the ego/self-contraction has to truly die and get truly transcended. Not just wear new cloths (I am God/facet a/facet b/.../n+1). Which is the same as the wave declaring it is the ocean. Deep Identity Level change. How does one spot it? Wave=psychological suffering. Ocean = potential for no more psychological suffering when the wave is truly dead/transcended, having been seen through and fully being/living as the ocean. Quite a task, but nothing else to do for eternity... Selling Water by the River

"When I look around me at the things in my world and say, “Everything is alive,” what I’m really saying is that everything is consciousness in a process of evolution. Just as evolutionary biologists look at a human being and say, “Millions of years ago, you were just a single cell swimming in a primeval sea,” so I might look at myself and think, “Millions of years ago, my consciousness was a sofa in an alien’s living room circling Epsilon Beta IV in the Gamma Quadrant!” And who knows what far future David Spangler may be starting his evolution of consciousness as my easy chair right now? This is fanciful, of course, but my main point is not. We all participate in a universe of consciousness that is evolving all the time, from the dimmest flickering of sentiency existing in a dream state that is not even self-aware to the fabulously and unimaginably complex and radiant cosmic Beings whose lives embrace entire galaxies. And what we do affects that evolution, at least in the environment around us. I have encountered subtle beings in the higher-order realms in comparison to whom my consciousness is not much more evolved than the sentiency I find in my sofa. Their response to me is always loving, caring, considerate, and appropriate. They are like shepherds of consciousness, tending its evolution across vast expanses of life and energy. The light of my sentiency is like a shadow compared to theirs, yet they tend to it—as they do to millions and billions of other lives and consciousnesses within the field of their awareness—as if it were the brightest, most valuable flame in creation. This is the true implication of saying that everything is alive. We are each caretakers for the consciousnesses evolving around us, particularly those of lesser complexity and capacity than our own. When it gets down to it, I really am my sofa’s keeper!" David Spangler, Subtle Worlds, An Explorer's Field Notes I thought maybe that is interesting for some. The range of beings, from Sofa to human to beings embracing entire galaxies, towards totally alien realms beyond. And we as humans in the middle. Able to realize and live our True Nature of Infinite Consciousness/Reality itself. Until we do something else next life. Maybe develop towards that Galactic thing? Who knows... And endless wonderful path still ahead. What do we do while here on the planet? Preview being Galactic beings (or Alien beings/realms beyond) in certain psychedelic states this life with boosting consciousness? Or realizing and stabilizing our essence, that which we really are: Absolute Reality, Pure Impersonal Infinite Awareness in nondual Union with all that is arising? The blissfull Empty Infinite Centerless Timeless Nonduality of Awakened Awareness? And going previewing other possible modes of existence from that basis/realization, with or without psychedelics? Or not at all? Or tending our garden, hobbies, enjoying earth? Or both? That I don't know, and the answer is unique for each being. But one thing I do know and have realized, beyond any doubt or possibility of error: Going exploring before having stabilized the realization of True Nature/Enlightenment and access to ones True Impersonal Nondual Infinite Nature (and the blissfull states it brings resting in that can bring) can only mean regular suffering. By definition, like any other separate-self and its projects to ease the suffering. Because where there is not this realization, there is only the self-contraction/duality/separate ego and its cycles of suffering and fear and contraction. Which seeks easing its suffering by having the sublime experiences/states of higher consciousness/realm states, often of psychedelic nature. Having said & written that: Bon voyage on whatever your path may be. Walk it, but don't have the illusion that peaking and previewing divine and higher realms brings the permanent freedom from (psychological) suffering/resistance/contraction that only transcending the self-contraction/ego can bring. Preview it, peak into the bliss of divine higher realms, explore it and try it for as long as necessary, and then realize and stabilize the bliss of ones True Nondual and Pure Impersonal Nature/Being right here, right now, on this earth. Water by the River PS: 2nd thread started ever. Hope nobody is too annoyed by this one.

Yup

Long enough time in that state you are training in will open the window for the shift towards Realization. You already perceive the facets of the elephant quite clearly and unmistakenly (Infinite, no concepts, Reality itself, unmistakenly,...). Long enough burning of all remnants of the separate self/ego-clouds in clear brazing Sun of your Empty Pure Impersonal Infinite Nature will clear the last clouds away. And when "you" rest in that and need to do nothing (because who would do it) to maintain these Awakened Impersonal Infinite Nondual Awakened States of Awareness, then suddenly it can become totally clear. The last remnants of the separate self are very very subtle, way more subtle than concepts or I-feelings. They need to get seen as object and transcended/cut off again and again. Its like learning a high-speed search and reckognition task of not looking through these filters/lenses/centers, but seeing them moving in True You. When its pure enough, the shift will happen. When you have gone this path, you know and have learned how to cut off/transcend/let go of all these clouds, all filters of the separate self. That is why the realization is accessible sobre later. You know (automatically) how to produce nondual awakened states but cutting off the filters. What can help at that stage is for example the practices of the Mahamudra-System stage 3, Yoga of One Taste (One Taste= Nondual), and 4. Stage of Nonmeditation (Where any doing/doer/Activity is and be dropped and the nondual awakened state can still be maintained. In this stage 4 the mind continuum ripens so that the big shift towards Enlightenment can happen. Afterwards the access to the Infinite or Awakend Nondual Awareness is quite stable, depending on the practice done before. It is very lovely "there". Already when approaching it it is so blissfull in these nondual states. In that bliss the ego-contraction dies/dissolves, because it is clearly seen and felt as contraction in the head, unpleasant and making nonduality localized again. I have written quite a bit about the Mahamudra stages of Nonmeditation Yoga and Yoga of One Taste. Maybe you find that interesting: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation Yoga&author=Water by the River https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?q="Yoga of One Taste"&author=Water by the River&sortby=relevancy

In Enlightenment, you literally become the Elephant. And understand it by being it. That is how Reality was realized by hundreds across the ages, all said more or less the same. Vibv, we can stop the discussion at that point, because it will not progress, and it that will not make sense to you until you have that realization or at least an openness. Actually, with your views you are cutting yourself off from that realization to a high degree, because you think you already have it and know it. The video with the overflowing cup. I know you don't like that, because some had Enlightenment/Realization and some didn't. But that doesn't change the truth of it. At each beings core is exactly THAT, and that makes it egalitarian. A potential than can be realized by all beings. Both facets are not equally true. The personal aspect is illusion/ignorance. The Impersonal Pure Consciousness is more fundamental (or eternal) than the passing or temporary personal consciousness that arises in It. The Oceans and the waves are not different, but the ocean is the Reality OF the wave. And fundamentally more true and permanent than the wave. No talking or lamenting or arguing will change that.

With that logic you can call any internal state a construction. Or anything at all a construction. Which to some degree it is. But then you can stop talking, since you deny relative reality. The relative phenomena like states of blissful emptiness do occur in the mindstream of beings/perspective, and have relative/manifesting truth. And btw. blissful emptiness is really blissful. Not a bad fantasy

@Javfly33, although I tend to criticize anything "loaden" with remnants of Ego/separate self called "God", which often results in something like "boundless God-Ego", I agree with Leo here. Absolute Reality can validly be called God/Divinity, since Reality/Absolute is infinite, eternal, and one without a second. And since it contains all there is and could be and "holds" it, it could also be called omniscient. And all-powerful. These properties of infinite, eternal, and one without a second and omniscient and all-powerful are traditionally the properties and definitions of God. Webster's New World Dictionary; " ... , regarded as eternal, infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing; Supreme Being; the Almighty". Just not a "Being" separate from the nondual Totality, and Being one without a second. Being IS, Non-Being is not. Parmenides. Or Reality/God/Being is, Non-Being is not.

Yes. Becoming the infinite boundless Bubble is the first step (Godself). Its like extending the Ego (although very empty/murky at this point already) to infinity. Already nondual and quite awakened, but not truly IT, since its not impersonal and truly Pure Empty Infinite Consciousness. And that is why its not stable. Separate Self/Ego still clouding the True Impersonal Pure Being/Reality. Ripening in that state over a long time (hundreds of hours normally), then sudden Enlightenment/waking up can happen. Truly becoming the Infinite, True No Self = Infinite. And that infinite Reality always already WAS behind everything. Deep Identity Level Shift. Accessible later on sobre. Taking the wrong exit with the radioactive skull: Blowing up the God-Ego even more.... End of progress. Roger Thisdell has to excellent videos on that: One step more in the right direction: And game over:

That can be anything sentient. And since there is only Infinite Consciousness, any Holon/perspective/being, from atom, bacteria, ant, animal, human (individual Holons), Alien, whatever n+1, to large social Holons like a Planetery Consciousness/Gaia, Galaxy or whole Universes/Realms/Lokas/Buddhafields/Dimensions holding the individual holons/beings in their larger being/realm. Up towards other Realms that are so alien/"other" one can not even talk about them because they don't have the correlates of this Realm like space/time/causality and so on (see for example Jac O'Keffee, Stephen Wolinsky, David Spandler, David Buckland). All beings/realms have some kind of sentience/interiortiy/consciousness, and something that makes them individual from the Totality/Infinite Reality, and that "something/manifestation" arises within their perspectives. Ken Wilber has a nice desription of Holons/perspectives/beings (both individual and social Holons) and Holarchy in Sex, Ecology, Spirituality. An Infinite Mind/Consciousness, separates itself into infinite perspectives/Holons/beings that are aware of each other (Indras Net), and play hide & seek & grow back home, in all realms and dimensions possible.

Yes. Awareness is so impersonal and pure that if nothing arises/manifests (including self-consciousness, separate self) it doesn't even know it exists. Infinite. Just Pure Nothingness/Awareness, with the potential of sentience or to be aware OF something. And that of can be a human separate self/ego.

That is on the right path, because to BE the Pure Impersonal Infinite all of these ideas/concepts have to be transcended/seen as moving within IT/Oneself. Then, Reality = God, God = Reality. Reality/God/Infinite manifests/imagines, or just contains a manifested side in it in a nondual way. One understands IT by BEING it. And removing the clouds/lenses/filters of the separate self/I-thoughts/feeling interpreting Awakenings. There is nothing else, nor could be. Only Ones True Nature/Being. Forever. That is the difference between Enlightenment and Awakening, or the Deep Identity Shift after which the separate-self-arisings (I-thoughts, I -feelings, conceptual "Understandings") are seen fully and truly as moving WITHIN the Infinite Reality that one truly is. Afterwards, this Infinite True Being is accessible in daily life sobre. The Illusion-clouds are seen through very fast if one just "re"-intuits the Infinite beyond experience/manifestation/arising. All of these facet-Understandings of God/Reality/Elephant can be generated after Enlightenment easily. Just a view Koans more, if its not already clear with Enlightenment. It is just what one is. But the Deep Identity Shift of truly "getting/realizing" the Impersonal Infinite Always Here Reality, ones True Nature, makes IT accessible afterwards in daily life sobre. That is the difference. The Elephant is realized UNFILTERED/uncoloured, unfiltered by remaining ego-filters/lenses. Pure uncoloured/unfiltered Impersonal Awareness realizes itself and Reality in a truly nondual way. Not just merging/unity with it and later separating again into something separate, but truly becoming it. Not oil mixed with water and shaken and later separated, but ice molten in water. Ice = Illusion-clouds of being separate/ego, Being= ice molten in the water, only water again. Turning the oil into ice and melting it is the process of transcending and letting the illusion-separate-self/ego die/transcend it. Seeing them (fast enough) as objects moving within onself and cutting it off, just to see what happens. If that succeeds, the visual field turns nondual, boundless/limitless (nothing can be apart from it), eternal (always here), and the Deep Identity Shifts from ego to Infinite Totality beyond all experience by BEING it. Enlightenment in other words. Becoming the elephant in Enlightenment, and telling about BEING the elephant, or touching the elephant in Awakenings while not truly becoming It (but Unity/Merging with it) and telling about its trunk/feet/ears as facets of Awakening. For sure then it appears there are always higher Awakenings with higher/more consciousness. I can fully understand how that perspective looks like, and before the big shift there will be no deviating from that. Either the deep identity shift happens, and the separate-self lense/filter/cloud can be fully seen through sobre, or not. Chasing/Grasping the facets/Awakenings prevents dropping/letting-go into the truly impersonal pure Infinite Consciousness/Being. What doesn't happen necessarily/normally in becoming the Elephant/Enlightenment is visiting some far out Astral/Subtle/Alien realms, or detailed mechanisms of manifestation. But that is manifestation/form-stuff, not the Infinite Absolute. But contained by it. Fascinating, fun and even important for sure. What humanity will do until the rest of eternity (more or less). But not as important as truly realizing and being ones True Being, just because the grasping never ends this way. I also liked the posts of Osaid. That is all how it really is and works. Water by the River

Yup, and that is why an integral lifestyle without spiritual-bypassing and taking care of all relative levels usually delivers a nice dream. Balancing Absolute and Relative. LOVE for the lower levels of manifestation, and not hating & escaping them, but differentiating from them and integrating them. The alternative is a nightmare. Also a dream, but good luck transcending an ego that screams in pain and suffering on various levels of exchange of Maslows little pyramid while trying to find its way into 7th ascended spiritual heaven away from this nasty earth and its two-legged ignoran fools. While not really noticing it is only moving within IT-self. And here is where Reality is really LOVE: IT loves doing that too. But it is also a bit like: Nietzsche: God is dead. God: Nietzsche is dead. Btw., for the aficionados/critics/marketers: That little story above is not so much Buddhism, it is more Ken Wilber & company. Just to make sure that the right -ISM gets shot.

Yes. One can be of real value/service to those receiving the contribution/service, and they show the appreciation for that and one receives it. That works even in high-stake-business-environments. Admittingly, it needs some experience & professionalism & luck to pull that off, and a large degree of humour to be able to cope with the madness of the lovely capitalistic system of ours....

Sure That 11th picture is as old as humankind from the Job Opening below:

Hallelujah. Indeed. Beautiful post. And then the 10th ox picture. Return to the market place with open hands.

Exactly. That is true freedom. And nondual Unity. And coming home. Resting AS the Ocean, BEING It. Not just being a big and high wave that considers/feels itself nondual and sees and understands many of the other waves/manifestation. But truly being the Ocean and trying to stabilize that 24/7 as much as possible. And then, if one is so inclined, one can go wave-watching, wave-understanding, wave-surfing, helping wave-self-discovery, .... Whatever one is inclined to do.

Shhhh. You are spoiling the fun Spirit is having with the God-Self. But now: Good Night!

I have to admit that I like your humor. Just to rattle some orthodoxy. Really. Like structure-wise. I have the same iconoclastic spirit. On the actual content we have ended at different perspectives of course. Now we just need the monkey for training, then I could retire and focus on my hobbies… If we find a promising specimen I would volunteer for a part of the training. Matter of honour. Good Night from old Europe Ladies & Gentlemen

Death and Resurrection. Gateless Gate. Nothing lost but an illusion. Which meant the world before, but was only contraction in essence. And then…

You are getting close to a ban.

Beautiful post. Awe or vertigo when faced with Infinity is something truly wonderful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awe

Guess you got the not today darling

Not at all. I asked for balanced and skillfull means. Balancing Absolute and relative, and maintaining health on a relative level. Just see how it will all develop. For me the next things that are going to happen are pretty clear now.

Well, that would be your interpretation of what I wrote. If I remember correctly I wrote something different, and with quite some more nuances. If you allow me I am not engaging with who exactly here has a big ego and who is denying that, since that would probably end in a less than harmonic way and without much benefit. I genereally prefer a debate on the topic, and not ad-hominem attacks without any specific arguments/examples. And when it comes to the topic, I will not speak of True Nature in an untruthful way just because apparently you don't really resonate with what I write. Feel free to criticize, I am not gaslit by that. And if you do that with reasons/specific arguments and not ad-hominem, even more appreciated, and probably you will also feel better doing it that way. Water by the River