Water by the River

I never denied that from the perspective of separation/duality/separate ego there is suffering. I agree on the first two statements (above) from you. Actually, I wrote: And that suffering is as real or unreal as everything else. So from the perspective of the separate self it is very (!) real. Separate Self/unenlightened mindsteam = frequent suffering/resistance. First Noble Truth: Suffering. Unsatisfying. I would be the last one to deny that. Here it depends on what is meant with Reality/You/Being. I assume that for me the referent or meaning of these words/signifiers is something different than for you. Maybe lets leave it open what the true potential of the True Reality of you really is? In my perspective it would be unresonsible to not testify on the release of suffering in truly awakened nondual states. Especially if these awakened nondual states are not just temporary highs, but a reality that has become very reliably available right here and now, just by reaching out... Selling "the possibility of an end of resistance/suffering to what is arising in the Nondual Reality that You really are" by the River

@Javfly33 As Cetus writes: If you truly are the awake Infinite Totality on a deep identity level (Full Enlightenment into Absolute Reality itself, preferably as stable as possible in daily life, Peak to plateau to permanent), Infinite Reality itself.... would you resist yourself? Of course not. Remaining suffering/resistance shows where the separation from the Totality (aka separate-self/separation-elements of the ego) are still well and alive playing their game: a) desiring an experience and not getting it and suffering/resisting while doing that, or b) wanting an un-pleasurable experience to go away, and suffering/resisting that that is not happening/appearing. It is a hint of God/Reality (so to say) to highlight certain not yet enlightened elements of the mindstream, remaining false identities of something separate still emerging. To be precise: God/True You/Truth/Reality CONTAINS the (illusionary or mere appearing) appearance/arising of suffering/resistance. The ego or mind IS an appearance, and very often IS the suffering/resistance (when resisting what is). Yet, it is AS real (or unreal) as every other experience/arising/appearance. So very real enough to cause appearing/arising suffering/resisting in a not fully enlightened perspective/being. The sentient awareness is not suffering, it contains as appearance/arising the suffering. "The" sentient awareness is totally empty and impersonal, and yet "it" is also all that arises - nondual and infinite. "It" can never be located, it is the Totality seeing itself in a nondual way, without any separate anything pulling the nondual unity apart into duality. That awakened nondual enlightened state alone (which is also the true natural state btw. if no illusion is appearing/arising in it) is free of suffering/resistance. Resistance/suffering (another word for separate-self/separate ego arisings) ends this awakened nondual state faster than one can say "duality". That is not only my claim, but the claim of many humans that have realized their True Identity, over all ages, cultures, places, and found freedom from resisting/suffering/self-contracting.... But to truly understand and realize that, a big clap of the one hand is necessary. You practice, which is what counts. So, bon voyage.... Selling Water by the River PS: Back from vacation, and happy new year to everyone!

Marc Leavitt, Enlightenment — Behind the scenes. And for all the ladies and gentlemen of the category „speak from your own experience“: Bless their heart ( ; Yours truly is still on vacation. And why reinvent the wheel all the time… especially on the islands of eternal spring? „So, overnight, I went from being considered a nihilist (someone who thinks that they are ‘nothing’) to a solipsist (someone who thinks that they are. ‘the only thing’). I really do understand these criticisms. You can’t expect to go running around ranting and raving about the world being an illusion and not be called a ‘nihilist’ or a ‘world denier.’ Likewise, you can’t go around screaming that you are the Space for everything in existence and not be called a megalomaniac or a solipsist. But there is actually a tremendous difference between me and the nihilist as well as the solipsist. For example, when I say that the world is an illusion, I am not saying that the world doesn’t exist but instead that the world is actually God or Awareness. I never denied the fact that the world ‘appears.’ My point was that what we consider to be a fixed and solid world is actually God/Awareness manifesting as form. Going back to my analogy of the rainbow ... I am not denying the appearance of the rainbow. I am only saying that the rainbow is not a fixed and solid actual thing, but instead that the rainbow is actually ungraspable Light. So, when I point out the fact that the world is actually an illusion, it is not meant to denigrate the world but instead to glorify it by recognizing its true and profound nature. The difference between myself and the solipsist is that in my experience, I had to see that I was nothing before I could see that I was everything. In fact, in my experience, it was the very surrendering of the idea that I was some-thing that led me to the perspective that I was actually everything. I understand that this still sounds awfully close to saying that you are God but it would actually only be correct to say that God is you. After all, it is only in your absence that God appears.“ Especially the second paragraph in bold letters is not so en vogue at this forum,so…. : Probably, that won’t get many horses to drink from the Water by the River (because it, uhhh, kills, and the horses seem to dislike that mostly), but hey… gotta do it anyway. One never knows if there is a sufficiently suicidal horse that has ripened enough beyond the still well and alive ego=God crowd… A good start in 2024 to everyone!

. Very true. Imagine you invent AWAKE (tm), put in some leading edge Alien style high level exploration of manifestation, like really avant-garde relative level exploration, belittle Enlightenment (or seeing the dream sobre for what it is) because you are still looking at the show through the lenses of the still quite well and alive you—know—who. And two(!) of the forum mods you selected yourself actually get enlightened and don’t deviate a single inch from their position. Ever. Because Absolute Truth = unchanging or eternal. What are the odds for that? Ain’t God having fun and watching out for the (at least longterm) more or less healthy development of its Lila at the same time? So thanks a lot, because of that „coincidence“ Water at the River can actually enjoy his holiday on Tenerife without any need for commenting on the latest Solipsism—confusion, because it’s already handled very competently. Like the absolutely wonderful two sentence answer above. Happy holidays everyone!

Yes. Exactly. Instead of getting rid of the illusion of being a ship on the ocean (ignorance, separate-self arisings I-thoughts, I feelings, feeling of being something specific) and truly realizing that one IS the impersonal/boundless ocean with all waves/dimensions that could ever be. And ever was was, only can be, and ever will be just the ocean. With or without the ignorance/illusion of feeling oneself as a ship/individuality being in it. but instead of that deciding for: Wave surfing and wave investigating. Lets go on the highest wave and see what the ocean can do. Infinitely consciousness high wave-surfing. Of course that is just the indviduality/ship/ego hijacking the true state of things (impersonal consciousness/ocean), going wave surfing on the highest and "infinitely consciousness" wave/dimension/whatever of manifestation (which is the Relative (manifestation), not the Absolute), and all the while never truly transcending its separateness/individuality/ignorance, but projecting that onto the Infinity of manifest arisings/form ("waves"), and proclaiming that as "infinitely consciousness". Ego=God=Solipsism. Bravo! And of course that is not the end of the game. The individual/ignorance is still very much alive. It contracts and suffers again and again. And Absolute Reality/Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/True God "says" (or better does that to the aficionado of that grasping worldview): Not today darling, no end of suffering before you let go that fascination of wave surfing and trying to become "infinitely" consciousness. Not before you stop chasing your own tail(s). Of which there are, guess what, and Infinity of. An Infinity of tails to chase. And all of which actually is NOT infinitely consciousness, but just wave-surfing and and becoming aware of high waves of manifestation/dimensions/manifestation-mechanisms, earthly or alien n+1. Projecting certain remnants of the separate self onto Infinity, and not letting the separate self illusion/ignorance truly exhaust itself in the ocean of truly impersonal consciousness. Infinitely consciousness is dropping into the ocean, transcending ones separate self/ego/ignorance truly, letting it die, understanding all its illusion/ignorance mechanisms, and becoming the impersonal boundless ocean of Absolute Reality itself. Maintaining that boundless nondual Awake Awareness of mere appearance in Infinite Reality in daily life. Because the clouding-over-ignorance mechanism is truly transcended/seen through/gone/dead, and "one" lives happily ever after as that which one really is: Absolute Reality itself. Self-evident moment to moment nondual boundless Awakened Awareness, all manifestation just mere appearance, always available, not depending on certain substances. But I guess that would require a major philosophical shift, and would create a certain marketing problem or two. Yet, it would feel infinitely better in daily life.... But hey, whatever floats ones ship on the ocean boat so to say... Its a free country Lila! And the self-contraction/ignorance is the spice of the universe, especially on the highest level of expanding the ego to infinitely large God-like dimensions. Where else to view such a show than in this little Samsara of ours? And as always, to all the "other" players in that magnificant show, good, bad, smart, maybe not so smart, alien, not alien, and so on and on: Bon voyage! And thanks for having the courage to endure the necessary suffering that goes along with playing/identifying with a fragment of the Totality (individuality/separate ego) to keep the illusion-show going in a convincing way! And never forget that when you are tired of all that suffering and confusion, there truly is a way home. Which, funnily, is always right Here, right Now. Hidden usually under a truckload of "me", separation, ignorance and illusion. So lets not make that truckload bigger than it already is. Selling water by the River

@ivankiss. Nice post . The character/individual floats around in the real You. Capital Y. And it is more or less subtly disturbing the realization of the real impersonal nature of Absolute Reality/Consciousness. It is just that fully realizing that is the death of the illusion (technically called ignorance) of the small you, or the individual. And zero chance to fully get that until..... small you/individuality is fully seen through and dead. Which is an event that doesn't get overlooked so easily, since, um, what you were before is dead then. Replaced by the impersonal (!) Totality, the Real You. Yes, IT is not personal. IT doesn't need anything, not even self-consciousness. IT just is. Good news: IT always is. Never can not be. Being itself. Same can not be said for the character/individuality. And if one is not exactly THAT right now, and fully aware of that (and its impersonal nature), merged with (or better BEING) the Totality in a boundless infinite nondual way, there is some illusion/individuality/ignorance going on... Alien or not. Of course it is much easier to project the remaining "individuality" floating around in the truly impersonal infinite Absolute Reality ON all the manifesting appearances happening in that Absolute Reality, nondual (but not impersonal) states boosted by certain.... substances. And then go mountain-ridge-facet-of-the-Absolute climbing, proclaiming I AM GOD... Only problem: The "I" in the sentence before is the illusion with lots of ignorance still remaining in it, not the real Impersonal God/Reality/True You. So the question is again: Who (really) hears these words? Selling Water by the River

The answer is the same as for every other Koan. So, what is it?

"See, if you imagine deeply enough that you're an alien from other planet that becomes your reality" I mean, who could contradict considering some events following that video? And for the aficionados of Conceptual Solipsism of green Sanskrit(?) form and of Conceptual Solipsism of the more red heart shaped form: I have a hard time balancing my good wishes in your endeavours concerning slugging it out on the relative/conceptual level, so I wish both of you good luck & success. When you are tired trying to get to the Absolute using any conceptual -ISM, (like Solipsism), maybe start considering: “The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.” And sit down and mediate in a non-conceptual way on who or what you really are, and what is hearing these words right now, and who or what is doing all this debating. As always, bon voyage & no increase in blood pressure while debating Selling Water by the River

Nihilism is self-contradictory. It proclaims there is no meaning. Besides the meaning that there is no meaning. So it is self-contradictory. Self-contradictory is the same as wrong. And it makes you a self-contradiction on two legs. Which is the same as suffering because of that internal conflict and contradiction. And because of that self-contradictory nature, you can (and should) forget about it when it comes to daily life. Because it can only harm your life, which happens on a relative level. Solipsism leads to Narcissism, that leads to Nihilism, and that leads to suffering. Just wait long enough and watch what happens to the aficionados of Solipsism/Narcissism/Nihilism and how they feel, write and come across. The energy you feel from them... All three have the same endgame: Suffering. And none of these three conceptual belief(!)-systems lead to stable Awakening/Enlightenment (which is non-conceptual), and resting in your True Nature of Impersonal Infinite Awareness/Suchness/Nondual Reality on a stable basis. Selling Water by the River

Little confusion of Absolute Truth and Relative Truth.... But hey, who cares if someone ruins his/her life on a relative level following such statements. Lets proclaim Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism!

... and that metabolizing (or at least the attempt of it) is quite a show. Not for the faint of heart...

Thank you for that post. Then I don't have to write something similiar, end can enjoy the sunday focusing on other endeavours. But what would happen to our little drama show here if that were not or no longer the case? One could start worrying a bit about the drama factor of the show winding down considering the possibility that certain key players get tired and actually could consider getting off the hamster mill & tail chasing. And getting tired of being only temporarily relieved in their self-contraction by grasping at the beauty of trying to understand the infinity of the manifested side of consiousness n+1 so to say. And actually winding down and ending the "you" or self-contraction, as Inliytened1 mentioned. The contraction=ego=separate self=suffering burning, dying and evaporting in the obvious omnisience of ones own True, Enternal and Infinite Being. Being replaced by the relieve of knowing ones True Self to be all arisings and manifestation, no matter how high or low or alien or eartly or n+1. Now, ever since, and forever, no matter how much confusion arises again this life or the next. But considering how much ingeniuty Infinite Reality put into the autopoiesis of the ego/separate-self delusion-arisings/Gestalt (all the way up to the very top of the mountain), probably not much to worry considering the continuation of the gig. But who knows... Selling Water by the River

hach. When talking of the Absolute, it needs to be recognized "how far" concepts and pointers "work", and where they all fail at the Infinite Absolute. I am not exactly against using concept as pointers/concepts/practices up to a certain level (which you can see at the length of some posts of mine), but I am aware where all of that has to stop. One can never become IT and remove the delusion/ignorance when one is loaded with so many concepts about the Absolute, which all limit the Infinite (by definition). It doesn't work that way. I didn't write that self-contradiction. When communicating on a conceptual level, it is better to stay coherent and logical, and avoiding self-contradictions. One can communicate in an unlogical way with concepts, or in a logical way. Short form: If using thinking & logic & concepts, think straight & logical. And at a certain point approaching the Infinite Absolute don't let the cup overflow: Selling Water by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction "It [Solipsism] states you are ..". If that is not a concept I don't know what a concept is. "Solipsism" is a concept, "you" is a concept, "mind" is a concept. The two sentences above are conceptual, consisting of concepts. And that is why these two sentences of yours are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-contradiction But hey, don't want to spoil your gig. You are a perfect example towards which certain teachings lead to. And the originator of these certain teachings (Solipsism) apparently doesn't object the outcome of these teachings. Like you flooding the forum with conceptual ideas like Absolute Solipsism (loaded with ego & separate-self). Actually, it is not so difficult: True Self = Infinite Impersonal (!) Suchness/Being/Reality/Consciousness: Solipsism ok. But that takes the death/transcendence of the separate-self/separating ego. Not blowing it up to infinity-proportions (God-ego). And even then, what is the use of talking "Solipsism" to other un-enlightened egos, when it mainly tends to blow up their obstacle towards true liberation, which is their untranscended separate ego/separate-self, to God-Ego size? False Self = separate self/ego/self-contraction/all of these concepts: Solipsism = madness. It depends on the mindstream claiming Solipsism. If done not from a truly enlightened perspective/mindstream, it is just ego-inflation: Ego = God. Which is the equivalent of shooting oneself in the knee and embarking on the Enlightenment-marathon of getting rid of anything separating/ego. Quite a show, although it doesn't reach Athens. Selling Water by the River

We can.

And after the one-liner, just because this passage in the letters of Bassui is so beautiful: At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present. Test yourself with this koan: “A monk asked Joshu: “What is the meaning of Bodhidharma’s coming to China?’ Joshu replied: ‘The oak tree in the garden.’ ”Should this koan leave you with the slightest doubt, you need to resume questioning, “What is it that hears?”

Water by the River

And it is One without a second, and not One.

With the energetic practices/meditation that you describe one can generate states that are awakened and boundless/nondual. But as soon as the energetic practice stops, the separate-self Gestalt/structure "kills" the nondual boundless blissful state when it comes back after practice. One can literally feel it contract back in the head. Its like applying medicine to a disease. Relieves the symptoms, but not the source problem (separate-self contraction. Literally contraction, creating contraction/location/center in the head and body). There are practices that dissolve the separate-self-contraction directly (the root-cause, or the source problem, and not just its symptoms, no nonduality and lacking bliss), in a way that the whole flow of I-thoughts/I-feelings is cut off in real time fast enough (Trekchö in Dzogchen for example, certain Mahamudra practices), That (dissolving all me-thoughts/concepts and -feelings) fast enough in real time (needs a lot of training) then leads to dissolving the sensation of being centered in the body (the contractions and localizations), and also leads to "hard" nondual/infinite Awakened states (then also off the pillow in daily life), including the "solidity" of the "outher" world being replaced by mere lucid appearance hovering in infinite Nothingness/Reality/Ones True Self as expressions of it, "seeing itself". Without these two shifts towards truly nondual awakened states (loss of center and mere appearance instead of solid external world), most of the talk/writing about it is just wishful thinking and conceptual speculation. It is not just thinking differently, these are "hard" awakened states. Only in these awakened states can the real state of Reality be realized, and the separate self slowly dissolved. Without these hard awakened nondual states, there is only illusion/duality/separate-self, and no chance to really realize what the underlying nondual Reality beyond the illusion/ignorance really is. I have the impression that is an important point for you, since you are among the rather few that actually practice and not just engage in conceptual speculation, but in generating these awakened states. And I agree fully on that. I have written extensively about these practices of Dzogchen/Mahamudra. If that is done proficient & fast enough, the mechanism of creating a separate-self and a localization & center stops, and one has these awakened boundless/nondual/infinite states of Infinite Nondual Consciousness in daily life when getting up from the pillow. I can confirm this from my own practice. It is too good to be true. Yet, it is true, and at that stage of practice always available. From that basis and in these states, one can dissolve the last remnants of the separate self contractions/localizations/lenses of perception in the burning of ones own infinite and impersonal True Being. The contractions that were the separate-self/ego melt like ice in the sun. I can only invite to try these techniques. In my experience, they are way superior to any standard concentration/energetic sitting meditation/practice. Exactly because it attacks the root-cause, and opens up Awakened Nonduality States in daily life. Mahamudra uses extensively concentrative sitting-meditation and energetic practices (Tummo for example) in the beginning, but goes beyond it as soon as possible. Off the pillow. Water by the River Here a description of the practice system I mainly used: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/92467-god-fucking-damn-it-another-meditation-rant-thread/?do=findComment&comment=1309816

Yes. At the Absolute, all dualities/pointers/words fail. Realizing by BEING the Infinite/Nothingness/Totality and dropping the clouds/ignorance of false separate-self totally. So one can approach IT from both "sides": Nothing-Ness/Infinite or Infinity/Everything. IT is both Nothing(-ness) and everything/Infinity. See below (from the same link), marked in green. And the most important parts are: 1) "In Nothingness, there is some degree of awareness present—it is not how most people imagine brain death—albeit unconditioned, object- and subjectless. The Consciousness (for lack of a better word) of Non-being is so subtle that the moment we try to reflect upon it to check if we are conscious, we are jarred back into ‘being’ and into our ordinary dualistic consciousness. I hesitate even to call this experience “pure subjectivity,” for that invites a metaphysical position that I am not willing to support." That part is the problem in all Psychedelic Awakenings I have seen so far (projecting separate-something on IT, creating "facets", or "I" am God). Not to even talk about all the endearing conceptual (non-awakening) solipsistic speculations and projections. and 2) "Personally, I think that differentiating between Nothingness and consciousness is helpful, and that is my ultimate goal—to help people realize Non-being or Absolute Consciousness. At that point, I can care less whether people call it Nothingness, God, Brahman, Buddha Nature, One Mind, Universal Consciousness, or a kangaroo." and here the green markings in the post:

If there is still "someone" thinking/feeling of being totally alone, there are also still "others". Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Reality contains these thought/feeling-arisings of being alone. "IT" is so empty that it can't feel alone. That would be an arising of thought/feelings "in Itself". If these last arisings of separate-self-afraid of being alone-fear are transcended, there is only (impersonal) love and bliss in that Nondual Reality/Infinite Consciousness, realizing itself as one without a second. Before that Gateless Gate, the game/Lila uses all fear- and delusion-meachnisms to scare the separate-self away from Truth. Beyond it, there is only nondual unity, love and bliss. One justcan't see this from before the shift, which is in the nature of the game. No Illusion, No Duality, No Other. So fear is the price to pay for the game/Lila of having "an other". Selling Water by the River

Yes. Very good. That already conforms to realizing/being Ultimate Reality quite nicely. Allow me some musings... And if the "one" having these insights/understandings is also seen as just an arising/movement/I-thought and I-feeling - "bundle/structure/Gestalt" happening/moving in that nondual boundless Reality, it can be realized that this Understander/separate-self having that insight/understanding/Awakening is and always was just an illusion. And never existed as more than some illusion/ignorance-clouds moving in that boundless infinite impersonal Reality/Infinite Consciousness beyond which nothing can exist. Doesn't really exist (beyond an illusion), has never really existed, and will never really exist (beyond some more illusion/ignorance). More on that step: Selling Water by the River

"One" can act and communicate totally normal in these awakened nondual states (of infinite consciousness) after a certain time of getting used to them. Peak to plateau to permanent. Reality acts and communicates with itself then. Communicating with "somebody" not aware of the underlying nondual unity of Absolute Reality is then just communicating with an appearing perspective/being (although that is then most often confused and ignorant, believing to be separate) within ones nondual boundless visual field/Being. Loosing ones awakened nondual infinite state of consciousness while communicating with other "beings" gets less and less with ongoing practice. But it is then totally clear and intuitively understood (in these awakened states) that empty infinite Awareness is looking through the eyes/perspective of all beings. And it is the same as the empty impersonal Awareness of any being, or "of" Absolute Reality. Although in most other beings/perspectives this empty impersonal Awareness is mightily confused and covered with clouds of ignorance/separate-self-arisings/I-thoughts and I-feelings preventing this realization in that being/perspective... The most funny and endearing ones by the way are those that think they have realized Ultimate Reality/Empty Impersonal Awareness while doing their conceptual solipsistic gig. Selling Water by the River

Very True. Allow me some musings (in general, not specifically to your answer), since this is an important point. The Absolute Reality can only be described/approached with a) what it is not (in-finite, silent, Abyss, Nothing-"ness"), via negative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophatic_theology), Nagarjuna Madyamaka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śūnyatā). Although Yogachara/Consciousness only school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara) extended that to Infinite Consciousness (which is true), we are already on a slippery slope here giving the Absolute limitations and (relative) properties. b) pointers showing a path to practices (actual practices, not just concepts) that can generate certain nondual awakened states in which the realization of it (Reality itself and ones True Self) can happen by itself ("Enlightenment"). By removing the filters/clouds of the ego and BEING infinite reality itself. Why? Because all these pointers appear WITHIN Absolute Reality. Can an infinite ocean define and realize itself fully using only water as pointer in an infinite "mass" of water? So we can describe the waves of the ocean and what the ocean does, and how it confuses all the waves to think they are waves. But we can never describe the infinite ocean fully with concepts. For that, one has to be it and realize it. And for that, the ego/self-contraction has to truly die and get truly transcended. Not just wear new cloths (I am God/facet a/facet b/.../n+1). Which is the same as the wave declaring it is the ocean. Deep Identity Level change. How does one spot it? Wave=psychological suffering. Ocean = potential for no more psychological suffering when the wave is truly dead/transcended, having been seen through and fully being/living as the ocean. Quite a task, but nothing else to do for eternity... Selling Water by the River