Water by the River

Sure? Jacques Vallée, Passport to Magonia Jacques Vallée, Dimensions. Chapter "Conclusion: Exploring Other Dimensions" https://www.dmtx.org/ Rick Strassmann, Inner Paths to Outer Space: Journeys to Alien Worlds through Psychedelics and Other Spiritual Technologies Selling (imaginary) Alien&ETs by the River

Please excuse my sloppy answer. It is just when one assumes that no Ego-elements/separate-self-elements are remaining in the psychedelic state... That is a bit, um, Contrast it with this here: Adi Da was quite problematic in other ways , but here you can get a feeling of what no filters/lenses/clouds looks like. And that is a nondual/infinite/mere appearance/awakened state up the hilt, making the true state of "things" absoltely obvious, the realization of Absolute Reality/True Being/Infinite Consciousness a no-brainer. Concerning the last subtle ego/separate-self-clouds/lenses/filters: One just doesn't see them, since there is way to little time in the psychedelic states to transcend these filters/lenses, and normally way to little training in transcending these filters/lenses/clouds done before. One looks THROUGH THEM, and doesn't even notice they are there. And then interprets the infinite nondual experience through them. And what is missing for Enlightenment is the impersonal part: No filters/lenses/clouds left. If you would understand/see these (very subtle) filters in these states, you could sustain the enlightened/awakened/boundless/nondual state AFTER the psychedelic has lost its effect. The infinite and "godly" states of consciousness are nothing but a big trap that parade "in front" of your Real Eternal Being. And btw., "classic" full Enlightenment is infinite, nondual and boundless, and mere appearance/imagined. And impersonal. And the "godly", ET or "whatever" states in that case parade "in" it, "in front" of it. And its YOU by the way. Just the True You. Not the god-state+reamaining filters/lenses. When filters/lenses/clouds/ego are switched off, isn't it logical that Awakening/boundless/nondual/mere apperance states just continues (or is no longer covered by duality), making the eternal always here "suchness" of True being available all the time. Just throw the frog in the mixer and see what remains. What remains is eternal. The rest is just illusion, parading in front of your eternal Being. Ranging from rat to crocodile to human to God to ET. And ET is better for sexy marketing and probably more fun than throwing the frog in the mixer, I assume. It is just if you throw the frog in the mixer, the imagined crocodiles tend to stay away, because, um, they intuit they would follow the frog into the mixer. Selling Water by the River

Bingo. Ken Wilber, The Religion of Tomorrow f(crocodile) = dysfunction^2 Selling crocodile calculus by the River

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trekchö

Said the crocodile and smiled Guess the frog doesn't like being thrown in the mixer. So it gets eaten again and again by crocodiles until jumping voluntarily in the mixer. Luckily, the frog is only imagined. Offering mixers for frogs by the River (but only selling only to those frogs who are fed up sufficiently with being bitten by crocodiles)

I wasn't asked, but since that didn't prevent me from commenting ever since, please allow me my musings... So, here is the Ultimate Crocodile. Or Trap. Since it is pretty close to Ultimate Truth: The problem (or rather near impossibility) in realizing Ultimate Truth/Full Enlightenment (not even to talk about realizing & keeping that on a stable basis in daily life) with mainly/only psychedelics (vs. a combined meditation and psychedelics-approach) is that the separate-self/ego is never fully seen through, and happily hijacks all insights gained and projects itself onto them. Like nondual merging with the visual field, aka non-dual-Unity-states of a still separate-self merging with the visual field. that the visual field is mere empty appearance hovering in Nothingness that this Nothingness is "IT", is Infinity, in all possible dimensions, is boundless limitless nondual Consciousness/Suchness "God-Realization" (aka that pretty much everything which appears is imagined to fool oneself into a false-body-mind-identity. That includes past&future imagination. Which is true, but still there is a subtle separate-self-something left and not seen through having all these insights, and proclaiming "I am God". It is not truly impersonal yet, and Absolute Reality is impersonal. Yes, True You is totally impersonal. Shocking, but true. But only shocking from before the Gateless Gate. After the Gateless Gate, it was just one more trap on the path/maze to Infinite love&liberation&freedom). That is pretty much the development Leo has taken, from nondual, to Infinity, to "God-Realization". And then some ETs (which is of course just more appearance/mind-stuff/content consciousness) since the God-Realization didn't went any further from there. And then after some psychedelic-substance-fallout-crocodiles ET said not permanently in this life darling, but maybe permanently in the next life in the 7th heaven, and the message was heard, and the phone was (increasingly) hung up (for now). Ultimate Truth is beyond all of that. Contains all of that. Unchanging. And eternal. All the rest mentioned above rolls "before" and "in" your true formless Infinite Being like a show. Waking/dreaming/deep sleep/normal life/nondual/infinite/God-Realization/ET/crocodiles: All these states roll before your True Being like a show, never changing anything real even for a moment. All just appearance. What is watching all of that? What can never not be here, even in Deep Sleep? And btw., the essence of the frog is completely understood by throwing it into a mixer and looking what it is made of (Suchness). That is how the frog gets truly impersonal. And the essence is all that stays, eternally. The rest is just changing appearance, an illusion, a show. Including any "understanding", which can be dead&gone&forgotten. The essence never can go anywhere, ever. That is what each being truly is. And realizing & embodying that is true freedom and liberation. And why is this kind of psychedelic "God-Realization" not stable? Psychedelics: The filters/lenses of the last subtle separate-self illusions don't get disassemled/transcended/cut-off in real time (aka impersonal, or "not-only-personal-awareness,"). Because of lacking strength&speed of Awareness in cutting all of that off in real-time. And that is why Infinite Nonduality/mere appearance/Awakening states break down after the trip: Unearned wisdom/states. Not impersonal, but still personal/separate-self/ego. In "God-Realization" there are still remnants (although subtle ones) of an ego/separate-self too much left alive & hijacking the insight/state. Meditation: Transcending separate-self/ego-elements (speed and strength/knowing each and any separate-self-arising illusion/I-feeling/I-thoughts/...) leads to nondual/infinite/mere appearance states: stable & personal transcended (aka impersonal), "earned". Psychedelics: psychedelics lead to nondual/infinite/mere appearance states without transcending all (subtle) separte-self/ego-buildings-blocks: unstable &"unearned" & can hijack the states: "I am God/-realized, whatever". The True Being of every being (Infinite Consciousness/Reality, impersonal or universal Awareness) is always right here, eternal. Can never change. It can only appear to be clouded. Looking out for less-than-impersonal-crocodiles by the non-personal River

True.

Where did I hear that before?

Well, I am happy you survived your episode(s) last year (in doing a few hundred trips over a year or so if I remember your statements on that correctly, but I am not sure. But at least a lot of trips...), and now are write something like this. That will create better/more sustainable Karma for readers/author for sure. Not everbody is a tough enough cookie to survive a few hundred trips (especially in a short time-span), at least without totally wrecking his/her life. Lets skip the question of how you learned that. Or which of the crocodiles mentioned smiled back hungry. And the age-old question of state vs. stage, transformation vs.peak experience. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=transformation&author=Water by the River For example: or Yes. Because it is a stage that has been earned by transformation and transcendence. States that have become permanent as stages. Going from states, to plateaus, to very permanent stages. And the remaining self doing these practices gets more and more refined. Pure. Impersonal. Empty. Transcendal. Not the remains of a separate ego/self, switched on and off by psychedelics, but never fully gone. The remains hindering the Full Realization in daily life, and are also projected on Infinite Consciousness during the trip, disfiguring its pure empty impersonal nature. So some lense always remain that prevent the final deep shift of Full Enlightenment. ... Ken Wilber: "The downside comes with people that only use psychedelics or drugs. And I found that over the years they just become mean it's somehow I just kind of closes them down. Its like you keep doing it and you keep doing it you keep doing and it doesn't quite cause the transformation. It can cause a peak experience but generally not a transformative experience and some people like David Deida will say that in order for altered changes of state to contribute to transformationpermit transformation it has to be basically endogenous not exogenous. It has to be has your own source. The people that do use both [psychedelics and meditation] and use it as a sacrament I think an enormous bit out of it. " Anybody ever wondered why that is? That Spirit/Infinite Reality prevents the crossing over through the Gateless Gate to Full Enlightenment if the soul is not purified enough, the separate-self/ego-illusion emptied out and transcended completely, all deaths died, all illusions gone? Maybe it is not a bug, but a deep deep feature? If we admit Infinite Intelligence to Infinite Reality, maybe Infinite Reality demands and requires giving up and transcending certain last subtle lenses also, letting the Illusion of separation fully die? And a high degree of compassion and some kind of Boddhisattva-vow? Because Infinite Reality itself IS Love? A fundamental archetype of manifestation, of essence? Sounds familiar and resonates? This combination of Transcendence and love is a deep structure of all spiritual systems of all ages. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj — 'Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows.' Water by the River Your favourite (although imaginary) non-100% Buddhist rodent selling water by the River to (imaginary) "others" and wondering which will be the (imaginary) crocodile to cause his final retirement from the water-selling-job for good. Luckily, the crocodiles are also all made out of water, since there is only water. by the River.

I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Next topic for the bar conversation, flowing smoothly from one topic to another, could be: "As the Fourth Lateran Council declared, it is the Father who begets, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity#Trinity_in_literature Then, one could go cross-cultural: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trikaya And oh yes, it was YOU. All of it. Because, hm, only game in town. Infinity, and such... PS: Good luck!

@Bazooka Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arian_controversy or not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism or this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism or that one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoptionism or even this one? I honestly lost the overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_early_Christian_theology Jesus... and where does the Bazooka come from? And since we are here happy nondualistic (and some even solipsistic) folks, who would rejects the validity of MellowEds statement that Jesus is God. Since there is only God...

Luckily, yours truly at least avoided this faux-pas. The intuition that the more charming move (instead of telling her yours truly is God) would be telling her that of course she is the a Goddess appeared just in time.

Like it. At least with this story, there is less risk of any girlfriend being insulted. Sounds also more romantic than "I as God".

The videos do contradict each other in some aspects. Because the word/signfifier "God" is not used refering to Impersonal Infinite Being (devoid of any properties besides being infinite & potentially aware). But used for a "God" loaded with feelings of individuality, some personality-remnants which are still being in nondual unity with all appearance (and even if its a world bubble appearance) in the psychedelic state. In truth, the same Infinite Impersonal Being is looking through all beings and perspectives. Not a God here and a God there, which are also the same God (somehow, but not explained how. The only explanation tha works is fully empty & impersonal consciousness. And only that fully empty & impersonal consciousness is able to reside in and be all beings). That is by the way the whole problem with the psychedelic-only/mainly path: One gets the nondual unity with the limitless bubble of appearance (this world and any fancy psychedelic realm), but not the totally empty impersonal part of Infinite Consciousness/Being. And that is why its not stable without the psychedelic. The way forward is the dissolving/transcending/cutting off with high-speed-awareness (aka meditation training) any and all of the remants of I-feelings/I-thoughts/concepts/ideas/all of it that this "God-bundle-identity" consists of. That ends in Infinite Impersonal Being, or sobre stable Enligtenment. Infinite Impersonal Being containing the former (now transcended and seen trough) personality patterns and this world, and any other being & other world. And this Impersonal Infinite Being is looking through all eyes. So who is reading these lines? That solves the Solipsism dilemma, and nothing else ever will. Selling Real Impersonal and fully empty Solipsism by the River PS: Short form: Psychedelic Awakening = not fully empty/impersonal separate-self-remnants hijacking the experience and projecting themselves on their visual/experience-field bubble, and calling that God. Not for the faint of hearted. Infinity of Gods is just a nice conceptual try to keep the remnants of the separate-self illusion alive and credible and not let them die/transcend them fully, which would be Impersonal Infinite Being. Outcome: Suffering & no sobre Enlightenment. To declare that superior to sobre Enlightenment, add a few ETs. Which is nothing else than more appearance & understanding of it, but who cares. PS PS: Even more shorther form: Conceptual Solipsism is just a game to keep the ego alive a bit longer, give it a bit more refuge/ground to stand on, and project itself onto the whole universe. Et voila, an Infinity of infinitely extended God-Egos Gods.

Mahamudra & Dzogchen, especially Pointing out the Great Way (Daniel Brown) style and the other books of Daniel Brown on Dzogchen. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Pointing out the Great Way&author=Water by the River and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interdimensional_UFO_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Vallée Jacques Vallée, Passport to Magonia: From Folklore to Flying Saucers The Multiverse of Infinite Reality with its endless gardens of good & evil. The eddies, vortexes,waves of the appearances of good&evil of the mighty infinite River of Reality are fascinating. And beyond good & evil and angels & demons, rumour has it that even some very fascinating ET-minds in alien ET-dimensions can be accessed. Just more appearances and eddies of appearance on the Infinite River that one truly is, giving the separate-self even more distraction-opportunities in its nearly endless endeavour of chasing its own tail, but who cares... And until the fascination of this wave-surfing is at least partically relaxed, telling about the bliss of dropping into the River and dissolving in it (instead of being endlessly fascinated by the games of its waves/vortexes/appearances) remains that largely futile task of Selling Water by the River ... just tea

Yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahamudra "literally means "great seal" or "great imprint" and refers to the fact that "all phenomena inevitably are stamped by the fact of wisdom and emptiness inseparable". Aka mere empty "imagined" appearances, not existing "out there" but within the Infinite vastness of True Being/Universal Consciousness as mere appearance in this nondual field, not as external objects "out there", aka duality. There is a lot of cultural lingo in Buddhism, especially Tibetan Buddhism, that I didn't understand in the beginning, like why they called it Great Seal. Or Emptiness. Or dependend origination. Or Middle Way. Or No Self. Proto-Mahamudra was imported from India around the 10 century, so the term comes probably from India and is used there also. Daniel Brown once said Mahamudra (for example in his book Pointing out the Great Way) is best for Awakening, and then adding Dzogchen-Methods (the books he translated later, kind of a collection of best of Tibetan Buddhism selected by 33rd Menri Trizin. Mahamudra as explained in Pointing out the Great Way = a nearly mathematical step by step method towards Awakening (Nondual Infinite Field at least temporarily seen by impersonal Awareness itself, but some very subtle processes/filters/lenses still clouding full realization). Before that comes Nonduality (or One Taste), or a separate-self (or ET) merging in Unity with the Infinite Field (of earthly or alien form). Dzogchen = Great Perfection, or the path that completes path to Enlightenment. Or fully ripened Awakened Awareness/Awakening, no clusters of separate-self arisings not transcended/seen through/still clouding Impersonal Infinite Being/Awareness. In my perspective the by far most sophisticated and fastest meditation methods (Mahamudra+Dzogchen) on the planet. Nearly all other methods/systems/techniques/traditions are found within these methods one way or the other, but not the other way round. Selling the Great Seal by the River

Feels like coming home, doesn't it? Or like drowning in the River, killing "me" softly... Forgive me some comments, but here are some practices that helped me a lot at that stage to make that Nondual Awakening nice&stable: The only missing ingridients are letting these states of Infinite Nondual Awakend Awareness ripen (they ripen by themself since the illusion has become instable. The path starts showing itself to itself now). Yet, one can put a blow-torch (Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra for example, see below) on the remnants of the illusion, to evaporate them faster... At some point, the only illusion still arising is the "one" of the one realizing all of that ("realizing" Nonduality and mere imagined appearance and so on). Then, the Impersonal Infinite Totality can wake up to itself, exactly when the "one/personal individuality/being separate/former separate-self" is seen through as mere concept/persistant illusion, a bundle of ideas/concepts/I-thoughts/I-feelings, and never having been anything more than that - and then the illusion drops away, being replaced by the Infinite Vastness of True Being/Reality, realizing itself as it truly is. That happens when every thought/feeling/and appearance of the "outer" world is realized as mere appearance hovering in Infinite Nondual Vastness/Being/Nothingnes/Emptiness. Then IT can be realized. And realizing that despite the illusion of separation has been appearing (as illusion), THIS Infinite Being/Reality/Universal Mind has always been the case, despite being temporarily been covered by coulds of separation-illusion/ignorance. There are teachings for speeding up that process (ripening from Nonduality (Yoga of One Taste in Mahamudra) with remnants of a separate-self to true impersonal Infinite Being/Reality (Nonmeditation Yoga in Mahamudra). I found these very helpful. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nonmeditation yoga&author=Water by the River Pretty sold out by the River

https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Nothingness&author=Water by the River Selling Nothing by the River PS:

Yes

Maybe there are different perspectives on how stable Realization is initially (after the shift), because each being/path approaches it a bit differently? Even in Zen there is the slower approach via just sitting and ripening (and then when the apple drops from the tree its more stable, but happens later) or via Koan-concentration-meditation (happens earlier, but less stable afterwards). Probably a more or less fast&spontaneous Enlightenment (happening because of previous lifes of practice/ripening/suffering/Karma/genetics/whatever) is different in expression/stabilizing/ripening then after decades of practice? And probably each more or less spontaneous (or not spontaneous/years and decades of practice) realization also has a different flavour, with a variety as broad there are different characters and humans/beings/aliens? The deep structures stay the same (Nondual Infinite Being is realized as more truthful (and fundamental/eternal) beyond any doubt than an imagined separate being with its center/duality/lenses of perceptions), the surface structures (the path up the mountain, and returning to the valley with open hands, and/or stabilizing its expression) vary with each being. That is at least my best take. Enjoy the weekend. Water by the River

Not two. Oneness (or a Unity experience of being one with the visual field and all arisings) easily leads to the "I am God", a merging/Unity experience. Oneness basically is Nonduality, which can be had as Unity experience with a subtle identity still well and alive, hijacking the nondual state. Which is then not true Nonduality with the center/identity fully transcended/seen through/gone, but a nonduality/unity experience hijacked and misinterpreted by a remaining subtle separate-self, which basically leads to continued suffering/resistance because its not fully seen through/transcended/cut off in real time. Oneness is still one too many... Not understanding this (but thinking one understands it) is basically to a large part the Leitmotiv of this lovely place here... And since this can only be understood once it fully happens, ones soul either intuits that truth and goes for it, or doesn't and goes happily exploring ET & company, and yours truly has to be happy with Selling Water by the River ... which he luckily is absolutely content with. PS: The nondual/oneness trap:

Bingo Ex-istence = literally means to "stand out" from reality. "Nothing"/No appearance really stands out from Infinite Reality, or exists apart from it. In that (absolute) perspective and realization, every relative appearance is just mere appearance, made out of "mind-stuff", like dreams are made of of "dream stuff". Clear Light, mere lucid appearance without solidity and "externality"/duality, hovering in Infinite Nondual Awareness "Vastness", besides which nothing could "exist", ever. The appearance of the world can appear solid and "out there"(aka material&duality). It can also appear as mere clear light (technical Buddhist term for mere appearance without existence on its own), dream-stuff, appearance, "hovering" in infinite nondual vastness, within ones True Nondual Infinite Being. And having realized that a few times (or better, having that awakened nondual infinite state available all times right here right now), it becomes clear what is really "going on": Mere appearance/Clear light without inherent existence on its own, no "objects" possibly being anywhere. Only ones Infinite True Self, boundless, eternal, morphing, shifting and manifesting mere appearances (and thoughts/feelings, anything that can and does appear). That is what the Buddhists mean with no existence/no self-existence/Middle-path/ Madhyamaka/Absolute Truth. Especially in the dream-stuff or Yoga-Chara-school: Mind(-stuff)/Dream(-stuff) only school https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogachara), on which most newer Buddhist schools are based on . And each and any idea/illusion of individuality, or ideas/identities of being apart from this infinite vastness of mere appearance (like being a human in a body, or ET, or whatever), any I-thought and I-feeling appearing in endless high-speed-machine-gun-illusion/ignorance-Staccato of separate-self-"existence", is just more appearance (of the ignorant/illusion-kind) happening within THAT. And that illusion/hypnotizing can be transcended/switched off with enough speed (being fast enough for that high-speed staccato for not getting hypnotized) & strength (knowing, understanding and having transcended even the most subtle core I-feelings/identities, including "I" am the Infinite Nondual Vastness) of meditation (courtesy for the wording to Frank Yang). Selling THAT by the River.

Welcome. Maybe you find this here also interesting: https://www.psychedelicsangha.org/paisley-gate/2019/5/8/the-supreme-array-scripture-a-psychedelic-stra-for-buddhist-psychonauts-pp3zz#:~:text=Composed sometime around the third,cosmic vision of the universe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandavyuha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur Of course, all medieval interpretations of the multiverse, but how could it be different for psychonauts back in the day... And the origins of all religions seem to be rooted in psychedelic usage: Book: Ruck, Carl: Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion Presentation:

Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Michael Crowley.