Water by the River

I have consumed all the resources you provided. I have mixed feelings. I see truth in what you said above. A highly spiritual but well-integrated soul should be able to immerse itself in a world that embodies both divine form and divine formlessness. But simultaneously, I also feel that there is truth in the last incarnation video. If a soul has reached the highest level of spiritual accomplishment on Earth, then it's sensible that Earth might seem too boring and lowly. Consequently, the soul should feel out of place in this world. I resonate with both ideas. I'm not interested in human affairs or in humans in general. I feel as though I'm an alien. But I also love some human accomplishments such as laptops, the internet, AI, etc. I love walking and running on concrete roads with grasses and trees on each side, enjoying my solitude. I love enjoying beautiful girls and experiencing the 4 seasons, especially autumn. But I also love trading currencies, considered low-consciousness by many spirituality enthusiasts. I'm not interested in business in general, but I really feel excited to start a business involving a modern 2-story cafe, secluded in romantic natural scenery. The cafe is a mixture of modern and ancient styles - a concrete building but with surrounding balconies on the 2nd floor, resembling a Japanese castle. It feels very good imagining myself just hanging out on the balcony drinking coffee and eating cookies while watching the nearby spring or autumn trees on the horizon. This is divine beauty and spirituality. From time to time, I feel I'm a mystery to myself. I asked for Deepseek's analysis of what I just wrote. The analysis is impressive but its thought process is even more impressive. "And I realized that this being appeared very briefly and said, “you know, the challenge with humanity is not that you’re too incarnated, it’s that you’re not incarnated enough.” And that was such an interesting and provocative statement that I thought, “okay, what exactly does that mean?”" https://batgap.com/david-spangler-transcript/ The quote is from the book Apprenticed by Spirit, David Spangler. Integration/Balance/healthy exchange on all levels of being = Joy and health, and full incarnation (with the potentials of the higher realms also incarnated). Or suffering and escapism, state chasing, and so on. Ken Wilbers take on that: Wake up, grow up, clean up, show up. A synonym for trying to live a happy and joyful, with integration on as many levels of being as possible. A physical universe with near 100% congruent physical/chemical/biological/mental/psychological rules/cause effect (aka little to no magic) is one of the playgrounds of Spirit. Subtle Realms with a near immortal subtle body and no need to bring food on the table.... maybe your soul considered that a bit boring previously?

Endless. No problem. Space is imagined, and your thinking sounds like 3D-thinking and bubbles. 3D-space, and any space, and any dimension (and be it n-dimensional) is just imagined. Space is not real. Absolute Reality is dimensionless and contains/manifests/imagines endless dimensions. Just add a 5h dimension to our 3D-world (and 4th dimension is time), and this 5th dimension is the endless amount of further perspectives/"beings" that are "forgotten" real-time. Et voila, you have endless beings/perspectives, but only one formless and infinite (and that is not not 3D-space or any space/dimension contained) fundamental Reality/Awareness. Add one more dimension and you have endless universes. Cluster them, loop them, do all kind of funny things with them. Mathematics can easily do that with Euclidian or Non-Euclidian dimensions, and mathematics is contained by Reality, so Reality can do it. Now mathematics can handle endless dimensions, and these can even be looped/contained/whatever funny non-euclidian dimensions are possible. Indras Net is just a simplified model/version of the One Reality looking through an Infinity of perspectives/beings/eyes. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=Indras Net&author=Water by the River https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=leavitt&author=Water by the River

Exactly. And conversations between Solipsists & Solipsism aficionados always seem to end a little bit like this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCkerYMffMo Solipsists in the plural is a contradiction in itself, but hey.... Selling Water by the (only) River

An appearance. A higher/multidimensional, very durable (survives this life/death) and complex higher dimensional being/apperance (more than 4 dimensions). Ziewes Out-out-of-body experience of the soul: "I was fully awake, and suddenly, it was as if I was seeing myself in the totality of us, in a higher state of consciousness. What I saw was myself—not as a human being—but as millions of energy centers. I could focus in on any one of them. Each energy center was a part of me. Some of these centers held past lives. Others carried unresolved issues problems I hadn’t addressed or had neglected. Some centers represented unfulfilled relationships, experiences that hadn’t been fully lived or resolved. I realized that some of these energy centers were versions of me living on completely different planets. I could actually zoom in on any center and gain a complete understanding of what that life was about, what it had left behind, and how successful or incomplete it had been. I could have spent an incredibly long time exploring all these past aspects of myself—each one forming a part of the totality of who I am. Then, I became intensely aware of the darker aspects—parts of myself that hadn’t yet been resolved. It became clear that there was a kind of mechanism at work. The moment my attention was drawn to one of these energies, something would activate—a process that began aligning other energies or paths with it. Before I knew it, I began to see possibilities. There were opportunities to heal, to resolve these energies, and to bring everything back into harmony." (ChatGPT time-stamp-removal) See also similiar experiences at David Spangler (last book quote, and also his biography), and many other (also historic) cases. And what does this evaluating/life-reviewing/new-life structuring? Something like "cosmic" AIs/Intelligences. We already have AIs, so of course Reality holds incredible powerful AIs and/or higher Beings/Intelligences. So basically, the soul is like when you save the game in a Roleplay-game at every moment, but only the character-skills/points/exerpiences/impressions... get saved, and then put into a new adventure/story-line/incarnation afterwards. And then one learns on some more skills/points and so on. Ain't we are having (imagined) drama, tragedy, horror, adventure, comedy&love, and fun? And the Koan de jour: Who is the player of this game, who is all players while forgetting these other player-perspectives real-time, the game-maker, the world-creator, the game-mantainer? Who imagines and contains all these vast appearing/imagined realms and vastly intelligents "AIs"/Beings/Aliens crossed because of copyrights/tm and replaced by: Higher-Dimensional Beings/.... ? And who is maybe also playing completely different games than the soul/reincarnation game? "What" is "that" Reality which can not not be here? Playing a bit with Apeirophobia by the River, and then relaxing (since, you know, assuredly & verifiably always here with nowhere else to go) and going swimming in the warm River... PS: China? Difference to Germany: The trains are on time. But I still prefer my teutonic hometurf. The flight back passes Dunhuang pretty close (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mogao_Caves) and the Silk Road nowadays, since when one flies with the Austrians they are no longer allowed to fly over the Russians. Very interesting track compared to the usual Siberian track.

Here are first-hand-experience reports of a life of OBEs: https://www.youtube.com/@jurgenziewe9125/search?query=reincarnation And to continue with the bad habit of quoting my own posts : https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=reincarnation&author=Water by the River This "taking the last incarnation" sounds a bit like the "escapism" of early Buddhism/Hinayana/Theravada and so on. Why should an experienced/old soul not be able to handle an incarnation even in a physical realm more or less gracefully, without feeling too much out-of-place (been there, done that before), and hence try such an adventure once more? Maybe even be a bit helpful for its fellow incarnated adventurer-heroes? There are many realms to incarnate, (subtle realms for example, where it is not so easy to die), many evolutionary paths, many Lilas. Physical realms are just very structured, with clear cause-effect (physical, biological and chemical and higher level consistency of cause-effect, aka "not much magic") and dependend on a quite "breakable" body which follows these rules. Starting in the Astral levels (Afterlife realms), that is changing - already dead, so not much need to work and put bread on the table. Then there are subtle realms and realms beyond these Astral Afterlife-realms altogether, with different evolutionary paths and modes of existence, some more alien multidimensional/higherdimensional and beyond human imagination. Concerning these topics, David Spanglers Subtle Worlds: An Explorer's Field Notes is an interesting work. And his magazin Views from the Borderland (from which all issues are still available). And all of these games are imagined by just One (without a second) Infinite Being, playing with itself in its endless comedies, dramas and tragedies and any other Theatrical style available- Who is that again?

Very good. Ones True Being. Can't loose it. Only mistake it with an illusion that was never really the case. Since yours truly has his chinese weeks... : "There is something formless and perfect before the universe was born. It is serene. Empty. Solitary. Unchanging. Infinite. Eternally present. It is the mother of the universe. For lack of a better name, I call it the Tao." "The Tao is the infinite, common source; eternally present within you. No beginning, no end. The essence of wisdom. Just be." and Huang Po: "All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning is unborn and indestructible." And one can call "It" Tao, Buddha-Mind, God, Absolute, Infinite Mind, Raspberry, whatever, even emptiness (although this is also a state-experience that comes waaay before Full Enlightenment). But then one has to immediately say something like form is emptiness and emptiness is form and more important: the Absolute is Reality itself, or else one may just point to a void/causal state, of which there are many.... and these states can be had by a separate-self-illusion without understanding Reality/Totality/Ones True Being. Short Form: Talk about emptiness or experiencing emptiness is in no way already Full Enlightenment. Kensho vs. Satori. This is a nuance that our host either hasn't gotten yet, or deliberately tends to overlook/under-emphasize, in order to bash some more non-enlightened Buddhist resulting in mucho-grande-marketing (sorry, couldn't help : ) highlight the fact that each Full Enlightenment is expressed in the relative form of the relative being (or rather hangover by then) which had had that realization that it really is the Totality. Of the course the Alien tends to see a bit more of the waves of the Ocean, but the Alien (and all there is and ever possibly could be) is still ones True Self.... Infinite and such. Delighting in the fact that one doesn't need a visa anymore for business trips to China and that neither the Tao The Ching nor Huang Po has any remaining valid copyrights left ... by the River PS: @emil1234 I will answer your questions in the next days

Well, um, our host & hero has started promoting meditation. Has realized the limits of psychedelics . Is becoming a nicer human being daily. More and more humble, benelovent and lovely. Chapeau! Less and less self-importance. (Which is btw. the No.1 killer of Awakened Awareness, don't ask me why I am an expert on that... ). "So yeah... Actualized.org solves the entire problem of epistemology, which is why it's so unique and powerful. It's not just some self-help or spirituality channel, it's an absolute solution to epistemology and ontology. Yeah, it took insane intelligence to solve that. The number of humans on this planet who understand the Infinity of Frame can be counted on one hand." Ok ok, but the trend is in place And since I will be going for a business trip to China soon, lets conclude that a bit with the Tao Te Ching: "The Master’s power is like this. He lets all things come and go effortlessly, without desire. He never expects results; thus he is never disappointed. He is never disappointed; thus his spirit never grows old. The great Way is easy, yet people prefer the side paths. Be aware when things are out of balance. Stay centered within the Tao. The Tao nourishes by not forcing. By not dominating, the Master leads. The Master views the parts with compassion, because he understands the whole. His constant practice is humility. He doesn’t glitter like a jewel but lets himself be shaped by the Tao, as rugged and common as a stone. He who defines himself can’t know who he really is. The Master’s power is like this. He lets all things come and go effortlessly, without desire. He never expects results; thus he is never disappointed. He is never disappointed; thus his spirit never grows old. " Singing by the River "as long as ones own imaginations are still annoying, "the" Infinite Mind is still ones teacher" PS: Now to the actual topic: "There is something formless and perfect before the universe was born. It is serene. Empty. Solitary. Unchanging. Infinite. Eternally present. It is the mother of the universe. For lack of a better name, I call it the Tao." And one can go wave-surfing on the ocean (nearly) forever, have fun, explore, suffer, understand, forget, and so on and on and on. Or just drop the illusion, dissolve in the Ocean (as you guess what ) and acknowledge having always been the ocean emptiness H20 THAT once more. And if that dropping happens or not also depends on the soul, and if it has done enough wave-surfing or not. "“When there is no desire, all things are at peace.”"

"Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total consciousness." Apologetics? Doesn't sound quite apologetic to me . Chanting "Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?" by the River

The Supreme Source (link above, and quotes/excerpts below) is by the way no obscure or niche author or scripture, but the Kulayarāja Tantra, the "main Tantra of the early Great Perfection tradition", or Dzogchen. "The Kunjed Gyalpo is the main tantra of the early Great Perfection tradition during the "Era of Fragmentation" (9th–10th centuries) period. As such, it is a key source for the early teachings of Dzogchen, ...." from Kulayarāja Tantra - Wikipedia And Dzogchen is, besides Mahamudra, the highest developed meditation system in Tibetan Buddhism. Ati-Yoga, the highest stage. Leo Gura: Yes, Buddhism is precise in that respect. But I have not read any Buddhist description of God-Realization. And no Buddhist I talk to can properly tell me what God is. Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, The Supreme Source: "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe. [... ] Pure and total consciousness has created everything and has not created anything. It has created everything because it has created its own nature, pure and total. It has not created anything because within it there exists no need to create. When my nature is not understood and the phenomena that manifest from me become the object of judgement, desire and attachment give rise to the creation of concrete vision that is impermanent and destined to vanish like a magical apparition, and one becomes like a blind man who does not know what is happening. [...I" "As I transcend all affirmations and negations, I am beyond all phenomena. As no object exists that is not myself, I am beyond meditating on a view. As there is nothing to keep apart from myself, I am beyond a commitment to observe. As there is nothing to seek other than myself, I am beyond obtaining the capacity for spiritual action. As no place exists outside myself, I am beyond a level of realization to surpass. As I have never encountered obstacles, I am beyond [everything] as self-arising wisdom. As I am the ultimate unborn nature, I am beyond [everything] as the [true] subtle ultimate nature" "I am called "the perfect condition" becauseeverything is contained in me. I am called "the source" because the teacher, teaching, and disciples arise from my three natures" "I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions are my essence. The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The Bodhisattvas are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestation. The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. Everything inanimate is my essence. Everything that lives is my essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: there is nothing that is not contained in me. The unborn, the wonder of birth, and the manifestation of energy are the three aspects of the three teachers: this is their condition." "As the three times, past, present, and future, abide exclusively in me, all the Buddhas are in the same condition: this too is my essence. As I transcend the dualism of subject and object, like space I am allpervading, and I constitute the fundamental substance of all phenomena: my essence is pure and total consciousness. I, that am the source, abide in the single state, and in this same authentic condition the practitioners of the "four yogas" "Realize my nature, the supreme source that is pure and total consciousness. Teach that all the phenomena of existence are only myself! If you transmit my teaching, all your disciples will realize my nature and will become this very nature. "If my nature were to be compassionately displayed to the beings of the three worlds who have originated from me,.... Thus I, the supreme source, disclose my nature, displaying it to myself." "Nothing other than this exists; none of the Buddhas have ever received a higher teaching than this from me, the source. Aside from this condition of equality beyond concepts, I myself, the supreme source whence everything arises, have absolutely nothing whatever to display to myself." "Listen! As all of you are created by me, you beings of the three worlds are my children, equal to me, the supreme source. You are me, inseparable from me, so I manifest to you and through the five teachers of my natures I teach the single state of the five essences [of the elements]. I am the single state, I, the supreme source: you too are, you must become certain of this!" "Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?" "Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total consciousness." Bashing Buddhism as if it were one system and as if every have-awake Buddhist were fully enlightened is like bashing Christianity because not every member of every christian congregation is and behaves like a Jesus. The latter move would be less than smart marketing for Jihadists of any kind, at least in the perspective of humble yours truly. Frolicking around at the -ISM bashing by the River

Some of them like that. For Mahayana and Theravada: https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=mahayana%20theravada&author=Water%20by%20the%20River Well, there are many stages of "No-Self". Most of them are still quite separate-selves having No-Self experiences, or even cessations. Cessations and prelimary No-Self experiences/states are not (full) Enlightenment, see Nagarjuna and Mahayana ever since. It is easy to bash these as not "God-realized" or whatever. Selling very alive water by the River

Let's respect the change. Isn't nearly everything in manifestation a bit ironic, contradictory and longing to relax its self-contraction and separateness back into a home which in truth was never really left? It is beautiful that Leo is able to continue the refinement of his views, and has the necessary openness for that. Not many people have this openness... And his love for Truth. Godspeed! Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone If your time to you is worth savin' And you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3E-FrMU580 Smiling & Humming Bob Dylan "The Times They Are A-Changing" by the River

Yes we do. "Those who have only kensho do not know this state of unlimited freedom and profound peace of mind. Indeed, it cannot be known until one comes to full enlightenment." - Yaeko There is a high price being paid denying the summum bonum of Full Enlightenment, and hence not reaching it. On the other side, the point of the ride is the ride. My wife would surely agree that the penguin on the right is sometimes much smarter than the broken record of Selling Water by the River. Working towards smiling and waving by the River Responsibly selling Dream Water by the Dream River

That is exactly as you write: Leos God Realization. A very subtle (but still present) identity/subject/observer "Leo" experiencing the Ox, and projecting itself on it. Of course, it is no longer Leo or personal or anything resembling an ego, doesn't need to have a center, can (and is) already nondual, but it is still subtle identity, a subtle subject vs. object, subtle filters, "having" the God Realization. It is not utterly empty and impersonal nondual Infinite Reality itself. "Something" that temporarily arises is still having the experience. It is not permanent. Which Absolute Reality/True You is. Always here. For the utterly empty and impersonal part, see "What is enlightenment, no, I mean really, like what is it?" by Steven Norquist. The same story in Zen (in Kapleau, Three Pillars of Zen): Harada Roshi on Yaekos Kensho: "I confirm that she has truly seen the Ox .... But as yet there remains a subject who is seeing. Her Mind’s home is still far distant. She must search more intensely!" Yaekos Enlightenment: "I have reached the point of actually grasping the Ox, and there is absolutely no delusion. There is neither Ox nor man." "Those who have only kensho do not know this state of unlimited freedom and profound peace of mind. Indeed, it cannot be known until one comes to full enlightenment." If the subject can't be switched off fully sobre, it can't be switched off fully with psychedelics. Some subtle remnants preventing Enlightenment always remain. And these shut down Awakening after coming down from the trip. Not too complicated actually, but what magnificent illusions Spirit can still invent on the last mile... And there is ZERO chance to anticipate the last shift, the dropping of all filters/lenses/identities/centers/... until it happens. Because if it could be anticipated, it would have already happened. And hence, SWbtR gets his usual beatings, although increasingly in a compassionate way. Selling unlimited freedom and profound peace of mind by The River

I understand it looks like that for you . It couldn't look any different. I have no way of communicating these final steps in concepts/words to you. "Many so-called enlightened people may not have much of a sense of self, but that does not mean they have higher consciousness of God." (Full) Enlightenment doesn't mean little sense of self, or killing the ego (which remains functional, even better than before, afterwards). It is the dropping of each and any identity and center. No subtle Identity/center/separatation is left. All seen through, the loop closing itself in realtime. Boundless aware eternal Reality itself, without any possible center/identity, in which and as which all appearance flows. All of what you write, even "God-Realization", has identity/center/separation left. A "God-Realizer". That is a temporary arising mirage in the eternal unchanging Reality/Totality. Enlightenment is truly utterly impersonal Infinite Reality/Awareness. No center. Infinite and boundless. Without nothing possible besides it, without a second, in no dimension and realm. It is utterly beyond concepts and words, identities and centers, experiences and understandings. Although all of that happens within "It". Infinitely intelligent. God. Totality. Each and any subtle identity/center/duality (which by definition is separate from the Totality) has to go. All of these are temporary arisings, reflections on the water, mirage, illusions. And they are very very very subtle and tricky towards the end of the path, nothing one can talk about with concepts without having had the reference experience of the signifiers/words. What you call God-Realization is still a mirage, a reflection on the water, being had by an illusionary self (although highly awakened and developed, nondual and infinite, but not yet truly impersonal and truly centerless and hence also still reflection on the water). Not yet truly enlightened and truly impersonal. None of the "God-Realization" is eternal or timeless, or always here. You are that which is always here. All of these reflections on the water of the cycle of ignorance to God Realization happen in You. A mirage. Appearances. Changing. Dreamlike. Unreal. The last step is the falling away of that God-Realizer. That is still a subtle separation and identity. Believe or not. What remains? What is always here? What is truly real? What are you really? What is truly eternal, always the case, god-realized or not, enlightened or not? That which can never loose or gain anything, despite being enlightened or ignorant. That is It. Or True You. See you "there". Your dream-character Selling Water by the River Musical Coda: Life must have its Mysteries

@Leo Gura "The entire spiritual path can be framed as the mind’s ascent from low to high to infinite intelligence. This ascent can only go so far without a parallel ascent towards the Good. Eventually the two paths, the path of intelligence and the path of doing Good must converge into complete Unity because they are metaphysically identical." Chapeau! Great post. Now you got it. Wisdom (which is Intelligence as you write it) and compassion (goodness/love/agape) form the two legs of stable realization. A tale told in the spiritual traditions since the dawn of time. There are instances/higher beings (some of the Alien category you write about, see for example David Spangler) in Reality that overlight and make sure that these insights find their path into every spiritual tradition. Love and wisdom, compassion and wisdom/awakening/intelligence (I agree with your differentiation of intelligence and wisdom. Wisdom is the tendency/Karma/habit of the soul to express higher intellience, or not), Eros and Agape, Awakening and Boddhichitta form a pair. The two legs of the path. Higher and more developed beings (non-human, subtle dimensions, "Alien",...) are traditionally always depicted as radiating huge love/compassion/Agape and presence/Awakening/realization. Which makes sense, since they have realized their true identity with the Totality since a long time. https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=wisdom compassion&author=Water by the River "Anything that obstructs the holistic flow of the universe is unintelligent, including impatience and frustration at the obstructions and divisions which presently exist and obstruct the holistic flow of the universe. The highest intelligence must recognize, accept, and love all of the unintelligence it finds within its infinite self. Such an intelligence is God, Good, Love. Such is the metaphysics of Intelligence. When you finally understand the structure of Intelligence, knowing how to behave in any given situation becomes 10x easier, clearer, and more powerful. There's no longer doubt and confusion about what you're supposed to do because the only thing you're ever supposed to do in life is be Intelligent. Just be Intelligent. That's it. If you fully grasped this, you would unlock a new tier of development." . Excellent. Godspeed! Water by the River