Bodhitree

A question occurred to me: if you look at a lot of highly developed people’s life work, you find a lot of them are not conventionally succesful. I have friends who are spiritual counsellors, paramedics, artists, carers for the elderly, whom I would characterise as advanced, but none of them make a salary above $60k. Yet they are doing what makes them fulfilled, jobs which touch on a life purpose and which leave them room for spiritual growth. So it makes me wonder about Actualized’s focus on living “an extraordinary life”. I wonder about the definition of success that is common to people here. This is something that also varies a lot with one’s Spiral Dynamics stage, a theory that people seem to attach a lot of importance to on here. I can imagine a stage Turquoise janitor, but I have trouble with a stage Turquoise CEO of a major company. If I look at Leo’s video content — I’ve read the video summaries thread but haven’t watched many of the video’s — I get a certain vibe that a lot of material is about achievement, being extraordinary, mastery. This doesn’t seem to be consistent with the more recent focus on spirituality and higher stages in Spiral Dynamics. I wonder what you all think about this.

After having visited the forum for about six months and taking in a few of Leo’s video’s, I have come to the conclusion that it’s not conducive to my further development to keep putting time into it. Basically for the following reasons: Leo is not my type of spiritual guide. I’ve learnt from some of the best, and he’s a long way short of that. I hope he knows what he is doing because it’s his hand at the tiller of this community of mostly young folks The content is crying out for some structure, if you approach the big pile of videos there is no sense of progression, no idea of where to start, no idea of what actualised.org’s plan is; this filters through to the new people who appear, who seem to just have random questions The community seems over-focussed on this psychedelic-fuelled god-realisation idea. I think it’s not a good direction to go in, spiritually. Mostly people don’t know what is meant by god anyway, and don’t have any idea of how to get there. There just aren’t enough sincere spiritual seekers mixed in with the larger crowd. I don’t get any sense of wisdom shared, instead I get a sense of chaos barely kept at bay. I don’t see purity, I don’t see virtue, I don’t see love. The pua stuff is at best a bridge for the young guys, but it quickly turns toxic. The things you do well: the moderating team seems good, the separate sections for dating and mental health were a good idea, there is a reasonable amount of openness. Thanks for the introduction to Sam Harris Waking Up app, the various discussions on Spiral Dynamics, and some funny trip reports. Wishing you all well.

Can’t say that you’re wrong. The whole community slants quite young because of Leo’s presence on YouTube, and I feel that makes a lot of people more vulnerable than you might expect.

I’d suggest a serious commitment to the gym would help. A lot of women avoid working out, and getting to and maintaining a good overall level of fitness really benefits the body. If you can spend 1000 calories in an hour while training, you’re doing ok.

Do you have a place of your own, it sounds to me like you need to get some distance from your mother and live your own life for a while.

He is literally responsible for every murder, rape, torture, war crime, child abuse… name the worst of the worst, and he has done it. Should we not sling this miscreant in jail?

The other thing about the app which I don’t think has been mentioned yet is that it contains a whole series of different teachings ranging from Richard Lang of the Headless Way, The Stoic Path by William B Irvine, The Spectrum of Awareness by Diana Winston, and Consolations by David Whyte. This is all tucked away under a menu item called Practice and then you have to scroll a list where initially only Sam Harris content is visible. There is also a whole series of talks with various Buddhist and self-development teachers. It’s largely all locked away behind a subscriber barrier. There is quite a lot of content there.

You might like George Gudjieff's books, they are quite "dense".

Well said. It's absolutely true that we live in touch with the dream, and it is infrequent that the dream is inspired by those things beyond our ken. Other, more capable parts of the cosmic mind. More often we are driven by old impulses, drives, desires, and they lead us a merry dance as we seek to examine ourselves. The buddhist sage Bodhidharma spent ten years staring at a cave wall, searching for enlightenment. In the end he said, if you can understand the mind, all else is included.

@LastThursday I think you’ll find the understanding of God is quite culturally bound. In places where Christianity is the only major religion, most people will assume you mean the Cristian God, but in India people are likely to ask, which God? And among those with a more sophisticated understanding of science and the balls to live by that, there will be the response that omnipotence is bullshit.

There is the famous story of Mansur al-Hallaj who said “an’al haq” or I am the truth, which many people saw as a claim to divinity. He was not killed for this, the judge claimed that religious inspiration was beyond his remit. But in the end his enemies made sure that he was executed for his religious views. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hallaj

Have spent some time with the app, it’s not at all bad as a basic guided platform to get into mindfulness meditation. But there’s limited content if you dont get the premium subscription. It is a subscription of 99 dollars a year, which I find expensive and a big commitment for such a service. Personally for all my meditating I use the Plum Village app, from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition, which provides a ton of free content and allows you to make a donation if you feel like giving. It’s Buddhist of course. So I guess it depends how much you are into Sam Harris and his particular approach.

Hinduism and Buddhism are a different kettle of fish. Buddhism holds up to a prolonged study, and has much of value to recommend it. I would suggest starting with the teachings of a modern teacher like Thich Nhat Hanh, or even more basic, picking up a copy of Buddhism for Dummies to get a feeling for the different schools within the teaching. You can’t really go wrong as a beginning student, everything has some value, just see what appeals to you. Hinduism I probably have the least knowledge of. I’ve listened to Osho’s commentaries on the Upanishads and read the Wikipedia articles, and I’ve done some reading on Advaita Vedanta, which seems the stream within Hinduism that most westerners connect with. Those resources I can recommend to gain some basic knowledge. It’s a big and varied religion. I’m not sure if I’d recommend hanging with a sect like the Hare Krishna’s, although their lore is basically Hindu they tend to take some things very literally.

To be honest, I don’t think books like the Bible, the Qur’an, and the Torah hold very much value. I’ve attempted to read them in the past, and found them difficult, full of linguistic snares, and filled with concepts that are not very relevant. There are exceptions, some of the stories in the Bible hold some wisdom, the Song of Solomon is nice, Mohammed’s Night Journey. But it’s not worth wading through Deuteronomy, all the begat’s, or the Qur’an’s continuous dire warnings about what will happen to unbelievers. You are likely to be much better off with alternative modern commentators. I’ve read Osho’s The Mustard Seed, on Christianity, and various books on what was found at Nag Hammadi. I’ve read various books on the history of the grail. I’ve read some books on what a historical Jesus might have been like, the man without the miracles. There are also a number of decent movies which tell these stories, King of Kings, Ben-hur, Kingdom of Heaven, Exodus: Gods and Kings, The Passion of the Christ, Jesus Christ Superstar, Yentl. It won’t give you a Christian scholar’s in depth view of the Bible, but it will give you a basic knowledge of some of the stories without having to wade through the books. The books have a nasty habit of sneakily or obviously trying to browbeat you into following the religions. There’s always a thinly veiled “you’d better do this, or that will happen to you”.

Maybe you should try some of the exercises from Douglas E. Harding’s the headless way? It’s a good set of methods for getting quick pointers into the nature of consciousness and the body.

Thanks for the tip, I will take a look at the app, it sounds interesting.

As I understand enlightenment, no. Some enlightened people teach, and others do not.

@Zeroguy Things were not so different when I was studying. I had £160 a month after I paid rent and bills and tuition, and from that I had to buy food as well. Studying is just not a good place financially. But you accept things and get on with life, make the best of it that you can. Positive attitude is what you want to develop.

@Zeroguy There are some interesting avenues getting jobs off the internet. Places like Etsy, I know Hungarian carpentry workshops that sell products into Western Europe. I know of a Colombian girl who works as a website designer for an English firm remotely. I know of an English illustrator who works remotely for German and American magazines. I know a couple in New Zealand who make their money by making music for a worldwide audience and they do all their marketing through alternative spiritual websites. It’s all going worldwide.

I’d watch out for trying to influence these sensations overmuch.

@Beeflamb I would suggest slowing down, and doing one thing in depth for a while. Pick a guru, and follow that person’s content exclusively for say three or four months, really get into it, do repeats, maybe get in touch personally. You’re always going to be doing first this, then that, on a spiritual path composed of segments, but try to give each segment the attention it truly deserves. Jumping from one topic to the next and getting all turned about by the variety is not an ideal way to the truth.

I just wanted to pass on what I have seen in various high consciousness communities. Here are the most common professions that I have seen amongst the hundred or so people I know of who really take their spiritual lives seriously: Therapists: There are quite a few psychotherapists, psychologists, psychiatrists and various independent kinds of therapists who go into Tantra, alternative therapies, Reiki, yoga and other areas. If you manage to build up a bit of a reputation this is something you can do for a long time, and with giving camps and retreats it can be rewarding. Artists: I know a number of painters, illustrators, and cartoonists who have done well in their lives, often it is about building a following or finding a niche or speciality. It allows you to do your own thing, at your own pace, while dedicating time to spiritual growth. Graphic / web designers: this is more freelance kind of work, or work in a department sometimes. But it allows you to be creative, the work is fun, and there is a variety of projects. I know some people who take on work across the internet, so it doesn’t matter so much where you are and if you have a portfolio and can prove that you are good, you can get 4000 euro’s for a project. Teachers: this is a type of work which ask a lot of you, but you have a chance to pass something on, and also you get lengthy holidays rather than the 25 days a year in most standard 9-5 jobs. It means you can do summer retreats, you can travel more, at the same time as having a steady income. Writers: I know a few people who write books for a living. It’s not a big pay check, but they get by and they are able to choose their subjects, within reason. The advantage is you can do it anywhere, the disadvantage is it’s not so easy to get into and you will have deadlines. Photographers: I know a couple of guys who do professional photography, you can make this into a business which pays the bills. It’s artistic, varied, and can be a passion, but it’s not easy to get paid for art photography, although people will always need to have their weddings done. Musicians: I also know a couple of musicians and DJ’s who make various amounts of money from what they do. It’s a life passion, and with the right audience can lead to being able to live comfortably off it, but it often stays more a hobby. It combines well with a spiritual life.

@Zeroguy I know it sounds like a lot, but over here costs are high too. Income tax takes roughly 40% off the top. Renting an average apartment here costs 1000 euro’s a month, you’re looking at about 600 euro’s on top of that in insurance and food before you take into account other exceptional costs like teeth, shoes and clothing. But I’m not complaining. I’ve worked hard for what I’ve achieved, and my life has gone well enough that I’ve been able to take a few years off while I cope with various physical and health difficulties. I have no dependents, and I’m on good terms with my family. I’ll be able to focus on what I think will help my development over the next few years. The main thing I wanted to say with this thread is, you don’t know where life will take you, as long as you stay open to new opportunities. It’s not so easy for a high-consciousness person to be succesful even in the 1st world countries, and if you’re just starting out you should be aware that there are not that many career paths that will be truly fulfilling.

Quality thread. Have not had this good a laugh for ages.

Basically yes. Social interactions are basically transactions. You receive a smile, you brain interprets that as you-like-me and sends you a dopamine boost to reward you for acting in such a way that others like you (which is good for your survival chances when the tribe traverses the wilds). One possibility is that you are a dopamine junky, looking for affirmation that you are still liked, have status in the group and so on. It’s all a big game. When you realise you’re just another rogue elephant wandering the bush by yourself then you can drop the social game. Forget about sex, smiles, status, esteem, respect, just do your own thing. None of it matters, ultimately, when you walk the spiritual path.