Preetom

Good! The inquiry must go on until complete satisfaction is reached

You're welcome

So what does that 'specific way' have to do with you? Would you deeply consider a random dream you saw 2 years ago as an inseparable part of your search for the Truth?

Fair enough. Would you cease to exist if that 'specific way' ceases to exist? How old is that 'specific way'? Was it there in your vision 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago?

That means somewhere in your imagination, there is still something that you are expecting your search to yield. Can you locate that? Are you really doing an honest inquiry or are you just looking for a verification of something you've already made up beforehand but can't seem to land on it properly somehow..

@ajasatya Thanks for taking the time to elaborate further. I probably won't see mathematics the same ever again haha.. That outside/inside dichotomy was interesting. So there really is no actual distinction about where to set the boundary ultimately. @non_nothing Nice contemplations. Most times, I run out of juice quickly when using symbols like 1,2,3,ab,c etc for contemplation. Soon the question arises, on what foundation are these symbols based upon? Why am I automatically restricting myself with these symbols? After all, a symbol can be everything BUT the thing it represents. Then I see that what is Not a symbol? At this point, thoughts exhaust itself and a conceptless knowing prevails. Being aware of being aware.

Would you accept whatever honestly comes out at the end of your search? Lets say, if it turns out that you're a bird after all the search, would you be open to accept it? Or would you hang onto something else and deny the honest inquiry? I mean, do you have a prefabricated notion of what you must or might be?

This is what I was asking in the first place! What is this 'thing' you're trying to know? What is this 'change' you're trying to get? Be very specific. You're putting so much effort and preparation to embark on a search for something. Don't you think that you at least need to be clear about what you're searching for?

Don't you 'know' that you don't know? Don't you always 'know'? @Shin Would you be able to accept it completely if the grand finale of your Realization happens while you're taking a dump?

@Shin Honestly answer this question 1) What are you exactly expecting? Try to define that grand event or signal after which you'd consider that your search is 'done'? What is your definition of being 'done'? PS: just like you dropped your false identity of master Yoda, cosmic Cat etc, similarly drop your false identity of Piccolo What are you without your memes and humor?

@ajasatya So the means justify the end and the end justify the means, and neither makes any sense outside the system they are in?

@Faceless Beautiful! Good to see you back. In the beginning, you mentioned that the self/ego resists the change of the environment which is inherently impermanent. Would you say that this very process of resisting the change of environment is also part of the totality of Environment? It means that the whole dilemma starts the moment when a fictitious identity called self/ego is formed around the process of resisting environment; an attempt to separate itself from the environment without realizing that what it(self/ego) is resisting, is what it is inside of!

@Dorotheus thanks for the share! Just finished it. So eloquently explained

@ajasatya Interesting! Thanks for elaborating it. So a statement like 1+1=2 only justifies the premises it is built upon. It cannot go past it's own premise. Can this be another way of saying what you've just said?

@non_nothing That made a lot of sense. Thanks! So it's urgent to question the satisfaction derived from the 1st iteration before the whole thing goes down the toilet in infinite iterations. @ajasatya What's wrong with mathematicians?

It's more a function of Consciousness. I doubt unhealthy expressions can be transcended all the way by exercising them more and more. They need to be looked at and melted away once and for all by raising Consciousness

@Serotoninluv It's more like everyone wants to assert their positions in almost every movement they make, right? What are they trying to assert? What is really on the line? Most communications and interpersonal transactions seem like something like life itself or existence is on the line

@Wyze Also you can study further about Red from the website Leo recommends http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/red/

@Wyze Bullying and abuse is definitely Stage Red taken to it's uncontrollable territory. I see the distinction between Red and Orange like this. Orange: Plays by a set of rules validated by the surroundings. Orange strives to thrive in a system by out-competing others. Or sometimes Orange will create a corollary/new system itself that goes along with present system and thrive in that. If Orange becomes too selfish, it usually corrupts the system behind the scene...scheming and plotting that usually doesn't get caught so easily. Red: Red rarely plays by the rules. Red won't hesitate to plow through others to gratify itself. If Red becomes too selfish, it manifests as direct attack, mob mentality, violence etc.

You're a cat? I thought I was talking about the cat PS: The actual moment of Enlightenment is not under your control. Every Enlightened fella acknowledges this. The best you can do, is to stay in a conceptless, dis-identified state and wait for the lightning to hit you

The cat got some existential pokes and decided to put on a sunglass and stargaze at the luminous cosmos?

Absolutely! No language can express what that ''cessation of suffering'' is like, but you surely can directly go there and live that. There is well a documented process, all worked out for last several thousands of years to undertake in this. Many people have done this over the years and came out clean from the other side. Thanks to you as well for this conversation

As long as you're questioning all 'me-ness' everywhere you find, you're doing just fine As an 80/20 rule, I can share a secret that worked superbly for me. I'm sure you have some background mindfulness all throughout the day due to your clean living and commitment to this work. The secret is this. Do not just restrict your self Inquiry practice just within that 1 hour sit (or how long you may have been doing formally). Keep doing that. But also, all throughout the day, just 'watch yourself'. Just stop taking yourself as an object. Lets say you're brushing your teeth. Your attention is constricted behind the eyes as the sense of 'me-ness'. Just gently ask ''What is it that knows this sensation? Is that also a sensation?'' and see how your attention gently relaxes and starts being aware without any rigid object right that moment. In this manner, all throughout the day, stop believing yourself as an object. If you keep this up, trust me within just few weeks you'll start feeling HEADLESS It will boost your self inquiry practice sooo much. If you can unwire ''I am this body'' belief and sensations, you've done 90% enlightenment work. You only need to stay in that conceptless aware presence. Within weeks and months, this will be automatic! You wouldn't even need to ask any question. Just your loving curious attention will melt all thoughts and constrictions on the spot and make you aware of your being. Attention turned on attention. Being aware of being aware. Totally a non doing practice once it's up and rolling! Today I did like 3 hours of Engineering maths while being aware. It becomes that effortless and I know it's only 1% The potential is unlimited! Just forget the idea that you are an object. Question any thought/belief that tries to convince you're an object. Your attention will loose all stickiness over time...just resting on itself. this 20% investment will give you the 80% of the results. All the best

You're right. You have to look through these things and find your unborn, deathless, eternal nature. Only then you're really liberated. You transcend the very idea called survival because you see you never was born in the first place! This is what I thought as well at one point. But you see, this 'liberation' is NOT a concept. You can't rationalize yourself about your suffering. You can...but that just multiplies your suffering. Real Liberation is literally a rebirth. Right now, you are having an experience of being a human limited in body with a story. With liberation, you literally will feel something new. Your very mechanism of seeing and being is transformed forever! This is why it is called the Absolute; the irrefutable over the ages! If Enlightenment was another thing that could be doubted, it would only be another stupid belief. You don't rationalize or brainwash yourself out of suffering (you can't!!). You Actually, Literally cease suffering. Now what that experience is, you have to go there and see for yourself

A breakthrough comes from this retreat like setting. You may need several of them. Or you will have to wait many years (10-12) for the witness to stabilize naturally, slowly in your daily life..until the shift happens. This is what happened to Shanmugam. Dude had his Enlightenment experience before 20, but finally the search was over in his 30s. All this time he was witnessing and slowly disidentifying. But sooner or later it is bound to happen if you really experiencially understand the objectless Consciousness state. Thats the good news!