Preetom

@SoonHei

I have no idea what you are talking about more like confused

Is this a coincidence or what? @SoonHei posted this in the forum simultaneously This is exactly the issue I'm questioning. Trying so hard to explain everything in the waking state language with so much conviction leads to this. One imaginary explanation opens up 10 more imaginary questions and scenarios. Now all of a sudden, Soonhei is something real and all it's fantasies now have to be validated in the light of Truth. It's so easy to forget that Soonhei is an arbitrary imagination based on the 16 hours of waking state experience. Even this idea of a day consisting of 24 hour where Soonhei is awake for several hours in a solid universe with all it's ideas about god, time, causality etc is part of the waking state limited viewpoint. @Soonhei, nothing against you brother. Just took your post as a support to mine. Hope you don't mind

Guys no point in debating or measuring metaphysical cocks. Haven't you noticed that Reality is complete inverse to it's appearance? The more dry, circular, frustrating and absurd the ''non-dual truths'' sound to the ego-mind, the sweeter is the actual taste of silent Clarity/Truth.

the point where the distinction between wisdom and delusion collapses

@Hima Izumi Some people tend to gauge the real worth of each devotee of Sri Bhagavan by the number of years they lived with Him, since having a long relationship in close proximity with the Guru is usually a major criterion for being qualified to teach or advise others in the proper use of His teaching; although the time a disciple has spent in the physical presence of his Sadguru is not a criterion by which one can judge his spiritual attainment. When one such person once asked Sri Sadhu Om Swami in a slightly disparaging manner, "You lived with Sri Ramana for only five years; are there not many who lived with Him for many more years than you did?" he replied, "Yes, I am indeed ashamed about it, because when even five seconds were more than sufficient for the divine Power shining in the Presence of Sri Bhagavan to quench the spiritual thirst of mature souls, if five years were necessary in my case, does it not show my state of immaturity?". - Sadhanai Saram does fire ceases to be fire just because it doesn't claim itself to be fire? Rarest are the liberated souls who wouldn't even make a sound about it. While the inverse of that; big-mouthed deluded fools; come in many numbers don't they?

Can you kidding me? After Ramana's death, Sri Sadhu Om was like the only person who really got the essence of Ramana's teaching. People were always coming to him to get clear about Ramana's teaching. Even myself personally, I don't think I would ever get what Ramana really meant by self-inquiry if I didn't read Michael Jame's translations of Sadhu Om's commentaries on this matter. I was reading a book called Sadhanai Saram (The essence of spiritual practice) which is a compilation of Sadhu Om's answer to various questions in poetical verse form. You should look into it. In the introduction/preface of that book, it is said that Sadhu Om came to Arunachala in the final years of Ramana's life. Sadhu om only got to stay with Ramana for 5 years before Maharshi died. But even in that short time, he was one of those rare devotees of Ramana who really got his message to it's core while many others were kissing Ramana's feet for 50 years and were still deluded as day 1. Some deluded, egotiscal fools got jealous of Sadhu om when people flocked to him to clarify Ramana's teachings. I'm linking the PDF version of the book. Sri Sadhu Om was someone who really lived up to being a truly liberated soul just like Ramana. He transcended all the petty egoic need for validation, name, fame, wealth etc and never claimed himself as a teacher or guru. He never talked about this stuff unless someone requested for a clarification or asked a question. He said that there is only one guru and that is Maharshi himself. He was so humble, no wonder people didn't know about his self-realization due to his silent, secluded lifestyle. http://www.happinessofbeing.com/Sadhanai_Saram.pdf

@Wisebaxter It's great that you are getting the most potent answers to clear away all doubts - from yourself through direct realizations. Cheers

I'd disagree with that. While it's true we can never guess the truth but I doubt they were doing self-inquiry from the start. They probably were doing a whole batch of spiritual practices and contemplations for decades before they finally stabilized in 'real' self-inquiry. Adyashanti: I don't know a great deal about the specifics of his personal path but he meditated like an Olympian 4-5 hours days in his late teens and 20s. But they were mostly a batch of concentration/vipasana meditations. In his final few years, self-inquiry really got hold of him tightly and he awakened permanently that time (he had many other glimpses before but they didn't stick) Rupert: He didn't do self-inquiry from the start. From his late teens to his 40s that's like 25 years- he was reading vedantic scriptures, doing mantra meditation(something that is a complete inverse of self-inquiry) and keeping Ramana's photo near his bed. he did just that for 25 freaking years without any permanent awakening experience. Finally he met Francis who introduced him to the direct path of putting awareness on awareness..that indeed liberated him within 1-2 years. In his own words, that time was like a constant fire works for him as everything he read in the scriptures were being directly experienced so clearly. Peter: I'm not familiar with neither his teaching nor his path so I can't comment on that. I only know that he did inhuman level of sitting and contemplating. Well it's because he was busy with construction works for decades and didn't have the patience/maturity to sit still and self inquire. Upon doing that self-less work for many years, finally his mind was purified and he got enlightened very soon when Ramana finally gave him permission to leave and meditate in a secluded place. Meanwhile, Shivprakasham Pillai and Sri Sadhu Om are examples who grasped the essence of Ramana's teaching very quickly and got enlightened within 2-5 years. Like I said, the technique self-inquiry (putting awareness on awareness) is the final gate. But it depends on people to people to come to this door due to their particular idiosyncrasies. Some may take 1 year to come to this gate while others may need lifetimes. And self-inquiry is not at all about asking questions or doing some sort of intellectual, clever gymnastics. In a sense, it is an 'unique' 'activity'. The only 'unique' activity there is. While all our experiences are about attending to objects, self-inquiry turns that around and starts attending to the subject. No other activity in any plane does that. And thus people will take their time to get the essence of this practice

Great thread. Actually once the habit of self-inquiry is firmly established 24/7, it takes only 6 months to 2-3 years to get WOKE as fuck. There have been many many testaments to this claim. It is the particular conditioning, destiny, fears and desires of the seekers that don't let self-inquiry to establish firmly. And thus it takes several years to many years to thousand lifetimes to get enlightened

We are never gonna figure this out through talking Do you still feel like using words or are you getting frustrated with the dryness of words?

@Highest Happy for you as your heart finally found it's solace

indeed

Leo has mentioned several times about the power of pure observation without thoughts and rationalization in his recent videos. Like how you'll actually learn about ants if you just observe them for 100 hours. You might end up learning more about ants that way than reading 5 books about ants. But our culture is so wrapped up in the conceptual, rational knowledge and anything other than that is regarded as stupidity, not worth looking into and waste of time. What is the basis of this marvelous power of observation? To find out, we have to look at new born babies. Most of what we learn after the age of 4-5 of years is verbal, conceptual knowledge. That includes school, college and all the family and societal indoctrination. But have you wondered how come a baby learns about language and other stuff before age of 5? Through pure, thoughtless observation! It could be said that a human learns the most in it's entire lifetime before it turns 5. A baby comes with zero knowledge, yet it learns in the most profound way WITHOUT any thought, belief and concept. That becomes the ground for the rest of knowledge over it's lifetime. That is the power of pure observation. It is literally the power of God/Grace. It results in non-verbal being-knowledge that transcends conceptual knowledge. Yes it may take a lot of time and due to our habitual cultural tendencies this power is greatly ignored. No one really thinks about it. I think this has potential for groundbreaking researches. And when that power of pure observation is placed on itself, it results in Enlightenment aka the pinnacle and transcendence of knowledge. Hope this line of thinking motivates you and makes you give a chance to this gold mine that is waiting to be tapped! Because in the end, this observation power is really ours while conceptual knowledge is something which is a learnt behavior and secondary to us.

So what it is that knows the sensation in the chest? Btw Ramana Maharshi treated all objective experience as 'thought'. In his vocab, the world is nothing but thoughts and it all hinges upon the root thought aka I-thought aka the ego. So the sensation in the chest, even though it is experienced right now, it is nothing but thought. How do you explain this view?

How about a direct perception that is happening right now? Like a sensation in the chest. I feel that even that is open to doubt because 'I' am aware of that sensation but that sensation is not aware of 'I'. So in other words, that sensation needs 'I' to verify it's existence. It cannot verify it's own existence. it doesn't have it's own existence-consciousness. Is this what is meant when it is said that the world doesn't exist even when you perceive it in the present moment?

in other words, God is so loving that hatred is not excluded from that love. Now good luck trying to explain that to religious folks and atheists lol

@Wisebaxter notice that the word 'hatred' is perspective dependent. If your enemy is harmed, it is regarded as a blessing. If your fella is harmed, it is hatred. Your very act of breathing is a violent act of killing millions of germs. The process of procreation and giving birth itself is a violent process. Where will you draw the line? Both the concepts of love and hatred are devils tool to manipulate reality to get it's own agenda met

@winterknight Can you doubt everything else except for your enlightenment? Or are you open to doubt about your enlightenment as well?

good luck. Reclaim what's been always yours

@FoxFoxFox Fantastic post