Preetom

Take it easy. Stick with yourself. The good god can take care of himself(if there is one). You can say that i am not-a-thing. But please dont reduce yourself as nothing. Thats just another definition, no better than defining oneself in other ways like "i am the body, or i am a victim, or i am rich". Any way you define yourself acts as a potential doorway for delusion. Instead, you are already you. Just be yourself. Not the personality or it's idiosyncracies but as you(hopefully you have this distinction already)

You are not nothing. Get that shit outta your head. You are you. You've always been you and always will be you.

Nope i am only asking him questions

Are you only the body? Can you exist without the body? Or is the body the entirety of you?

@Lister You are at a great place. Keep attending to that Awareness which is unrelated and unaffected by phenomena. Leave phenomena alone as it has no being/substance in the first place. As you keep attending and being more interested in Awareness, the residues called 'lister' will be slowly erased more and more and one day you'll have an instantaneous non-verbal breakthrough. A complete understanding of Awareness will take place. Not in the form of knowledge, but by actually being it. That is the real definition of enlightenment... When you become absolutely clear about the nature of awareness, its invulnerability and unconditional happiness. Discovering awareness apart from phenomena is the first step and it seems you've done a great job at that. All the best

The God has resurrected!!!

Another way to say that... it is the cessation of the indenfication mechanism once and for all. Enlightenment has nothing to do with the contents of thoughts, emotions and feelings. It is identification with objects that totally vanishes and thus the conceptual feeling of 'i' associated with phenomena vanishes as well.

Well guess what you can never know if anyone is enlightened or not, that too over an internet forum lol. Take whatever appeals to you and leave the rest

Because there is no other option left and the hatred towards falsehood has become too much to endure anymore. Truth burns everything

@SQAAD Wanting truth for truth's sake(or any value for that matter) solely depends on the hierarchy of values. You might find some people donating all their organs before their death, going to a war consciously, leaving family and friends forever for some unknown quest, being the hungry artist(whose works only get recognized after they die in the streets homeless) etc. I hope you get the idea. What were these people doing? Well, their one top value trumped all other values by many degree. So they eventually came to this crossroad when saw that there is really nothing else for them to do other than pursuing their top value. Truth for truth's sake is sort of like that. One simply comes to a stark realization that there is nothing else left worthy of pursuing. It's sort of a condition when all other values are exhausted and released through course of events and the love for truth remains intact. But the paradox here is that one can't really want Truth. Not really. Because that which wants Truth can never reach or taste Truth. Truth is what remains after that 'thing' is dead

I heard some 'enlightened' teachers preach and give the person some sort of reality as well. Is that kind of a joke or for teaching purpose? or are they just pretending to be enlightened while playing into everyone's cup? ** I also edited by last post and added a 3rd question. Hope you respond to that. Thanks

That's the thing. You dig within yourself and you find that what you used to call 'me' is nothing but a jumble of random stuff, most elements you have no idea how they came inside you. The onion has no center. Only layers. While we have happy dreams pretending as if we are something other than that

you're crazy if your thoughts come outta your mouth. sane if the thoughts are not vocalized. -society, since time immemorial

@winterknight 1) Is an enlightened one simultaneously both the Self and a limited human? Or is he only the Self? 2) What is the role of consciously chosen set of values before and after enlightenment? 3) Is it a valid practice towards enlightenment if I simply drop the idea that I am a person once and for all?

Thats a very good attitude to have. If only you could apply that same degree of honesty, skepticism and no bullshit attitude towards your current beliefs, assumptions and tendencies- things that run 'you'; you would be the 1st one among us here to be enlightened; no "spiritual practice" necessary Nothing beats a straightforward, no bullshit approach. With that being said, non-duality is not a philosophy or a system of reducing and explaining everything(as opposed to what it has become nowadays lol!). Non duality a living experience. The theory serves as a roadmap to investigate this stuff at best.

Oh goodness! Enlightenment is not another conspiracy theory you can figure out by randomly chatting on a forum lol. You have 2 choices. 1) you can read the endless religious buddist/hindu scriptures to find out what enlightenment really is, as they were like the 1st generation to ever document this stuff. But the danger is the scriptures are endless, contradictory, heavily culture bound...sort of like hunting for a jewel in a sea of bullshit. 2) read 3-4 books of reletively modern day, real enlightened gurus who catered to the rational, investigative minds with clear explanations and pathways. Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta Maharaj and Atmananda Krishnamenon- these are your guys. The real granddaddies of enlightenment. Most teachers/books today preaching enlightenment got it from them in the first place in one way or another With that being said, i understand your frustration. There must come a point where no amount of theory or verbal argument can fill up that ''impossible chasm" between the real deal and the concepts about it. That produces a burning intent within you to see this thing for yourself, then congratulations the theory/books have done their real job and final inquiry can begin.

@SQAAD The only explanation is that what we call waking reality or the world is nothing but a dreamstate. For this dream to work in any way, Truth must appear as everything other than itself. Thus we have delusion as the only prevalent mechanism of this dreamstate. After all, a dream cant run on TRUTH. In the presence of Truth as it is, dreams pop. So now you might ask, why God created this shitty dream called life? Well this why question becomes a logical fallacy because this why question itself is happening within and thus part and parcel of the dream. For any manifestation to happen, it must happen through dreaming/misdirection/veiling/ignorance. The manifestation of the why question itself is another dream. That's as far as theory goes. And you can wake up to realize that there was no dream or ignorance in the first place. @Paul92 see if this answer appeals to you or not

A man needs to say a lot of things(!) to put up with teh business. Dont take someone else's business as yours or else you'll just waste time and energy in someone else's circle jerk

I remember reading some of those fallacies from Jan's website. If one fallacy is resolved, another will pop up. Better to doubt the doubter hehe

Good boy getting enlightened

you need a smile like that on your dp to enter the infinite mind

Great. Good luck on your journey. Feel free to share your distilled notes if you feel like it.

that's his personal evaluation. But that surely doesn't make some sort of universal law

Stop pigeonholing people and come up with some sort of one size fit for all people. No two people come into this world with exactly same traits, tendencies and attributes. In this dreamstate, diversity is rampant and any effort to fit everything into one box leads to disaster and ideaology in the name of goodwill. The unique thing about philosophy/metaphysics is that it is the only thing available for anyone in any situation at any time. No particular appearance can ever reconcile the fragmentation. Only philosophy/metaphysics can reveal the common ground aka the underlying unity. Guess what? The kingdom of heaven won't ever come as an appearance. It is available right now through metaphysics. That's the thing that unifies. Marcus Aurelius was an emperor while Epictetus was a slave. But philosophy was available in equal extent to both of them and it was philosophy that made them stand on the common ground irrespective of their outer garments and circumstances. The unfilled gap on appearance was reconciled through philosophy. Every being is on it's journey towards philosophy and metaphysics and not everyone will take the same route. If Jim Kwik resonates with you, perfect. But please watch the tendency to shove your fav ideology down everyone else's throat. Some people will construct their lives to peak before going into philosophy. Others might need the exact opposite in order for the dream to turn into nightmare in order to finally wake up.

Teh more one talks, teh more shit starts coming outta ones mouth at some point. Something to carefully consider.