AdeptusPsychonautica

@Inliytened1 That was an incredibly petty and spiteful thing to do. If your belief system is so fragile that it cannot tolerate a reasonably phrased disagreement on a given topic, and your ego is so bruised that you had to flex your dominance by banning the guy - then honestly you have no business moderating a forum like this. You simply are not qualified. This is truly putrid. I hope you took a hot shower to wash off all that ego-jizz you just sprayed all over yourself.

I have no idea. I quite like Donald Hoffmans theory of he puts out in The Case Against Reality, and I like James Cook’s Living Mirror Theory. I also occasionally find myself dipping into panpsychism and animism - particularly when I’m on retreat in the Amazon. Like I said I have no particular dog in this game of who is correct about reality, and so I reserve the right to flip flop as I see fit or to not give a fuck ?

The article is not authored by me nor did I post it, however it contains quotations from me and references my channel. I’m not sure what you mean about the banned part. The fact I am posting should indicate that is not the case, and I think you might be misunderstanding Leo’s comment about worse articles. He was saying there COULD be, not that there WILL be.

And many more don’t share those views, so I’m not exactly sure why you are making this point as if its a popularity contest ? Still, I think its certainly a topic that is ripe for discussion and in no way do I claim any expertise whatsoever in this area. In the video in question I simply stated my position , the reason for my position, and the flaws in Deepaks position. Whether or not reality actually is an illusion is a whole other topic, but the specific argument put forth by Deepak within that documentary was total plop ?

Well first of all you got the example wrong as it didn't have anything to do with dreams, and secondly it was used in an argument against Deepak Chopra - Leo was not mentioned in that video at all, and I have no idea if he believes the same thing as Deepak. I can only hope not since I find Deepak Chopra to be a fire hydrant of piping hot bullshit ?

@Inliytened1 OK, there are some fairly shocking misunderstandings and hand-wavings going on here, so lets try and clean them up one by one. Yes, one person cannot know the subjective experience of another - hence why I NEVER criticize Leo's subjective experience, only the objective claims that he says resulted from these experiences. If indeed he gained the objective power to cure all diseases and ailments then this should be fairly easy to demonstrate, quickly silence sceptics, and usher in a new age of humanity. Since this hasn't happened then I feel fairly confident that he did not actually gain such abilities. What you demonstrate here though is deep confusion about the difference between subjective states, and the objective claims I am critical of. I can only suggest you try and fully understand the fundamental difference between objective/subjective because otherwise you will keep barking up the wrong tree. I would argue that it is the exact statements I am critical of that makes a mockery of things, and Leo alone is responsible for those. As for Leo not taking me as a serious critic, I somewhat doubt that - but of course we would have to get into what you even mean by "serious critic". Still what is more important to me is that I take my criticism seriously by making sure I can back up what I say with reason, logic, and evidence. Regardless, its not like I am here puppy eyed looking for approval from the master ? I also know from direct experience, and that 30+ years of experience working with these states has given me the insight not to running my mouth off to "normies" or YouTube in the direct aftermath of a life changing experience. Its a very poor benchmark to judge whether someone has had such an experience simply on the basis of your own anecdotal haphazard reaction to it. Believe it or not many people come back and handle it with serenity and grace. That's an absurd misrepresentation. Nowhere did I ever claim that Leo cannot know his own subjective experience. Now you and I have talked in person and you seem like a smart guy, but this shows a real lack of comprehension about the basics of what I am saying, along with the aforementioned confusion you have around subjective/objective. Let me try and clear this up once and for all... I HAVE NEVER stated that Leo is delusional for having had a subjective experience, or that he cannot know his own subjective experience. That is one of the most ridiculous strawman arguments I have ever seen. What I HAVE criticized is the OBJECTIVE claims Leo makes as a result of these experiences. Leo saying he experienced being God is a SUBJECTIVE claim (Not a problem), Leo claiming that BECAUSE he is God he can cure all human diseases is an OBJECTIVE claim (problem). I have no doubt at all that he had the subjective experience he describes (its actually funny that you think I doubt this), but I absolutely doubt the objective claims he makes about being able to bend physical reality as a result of these experiences. Hopefully that is clear for you now. Lets try another example to drive the point home. If someone on the forum was talking about killing themselves or another person then you would (hopefully) recognize these as OBJECTIVE claims and do something about it - right? I'm sure you would because you recognize that such language potentially has real life implications, and so would not just shrug it off as POV or perspective. You might even take action based upon those claims like banning them from the forum, or talk about their behaviour publicly as an example of what is not acceptable within the community, and to describe it as a "red flag" - I can only hope the analogy is not lost on you. Its really not that difficult mate, but to address your comment further - no its not in any way hypocritical, its simply that you are utterly confused as to the nature of the actual case being made. You see?

@Leo Gura Likewise, but I don't think it needs to be so binary. There is a a wider discourse being played out here that would benefit from ideas being challenged, and people talking to each other, and so with that in mind I will continue doing what I do - and yes that does mean that one day I may be talking about you again. Take it as a compliment that someone is engaging with what your ideas, even if they are critical of them. Sincerely though Leo, I wish you well with your work.

You certainly don't need my life story, you simply need to deal with criticism on its own MERIT rather than inventing disingenuous deflections, like saying anyone who disagrees with you is a troll, stupid, unspiritual, or whatever disingenuous deflection with no factual basis you find easiest when your ego gets bruised. Needless to say I don't think you can "easily tell" at all Leo. I think you actually have IMMENSE difficulty seeing outside of your own perspective, as evidenced by your insistence on what is or isn't spirituality, and your frequent use of it to inflate yourself. Let me give you a word of advice - if you are truly trying to be a spiritual teacher then this kind of pretentious high horse nonsense is beneath you. I think it is that simple and hey, you are a smart guy. It would be relatively simple to to pick out the profound truths and acknowledge the delusional missteps, and take the criticism on the chin. Its a poor deflection for you to invent what did or did not go over my head - because you have no idea what my subjective experience of your content was. Its entirely possible that I understood every word in the exact manner you intended it, and that there is still room there for us to disagree. Perhaps (and work with me here) some of what you said was just wrong and thus worthy of criticism? If we remove the idea that you are an infallible super being then this seems fairly plausible. Yes I am indeed interested in critiquing psychedelic/spiritual culture (as are you) and if you throw something into the public square for discussion then surely you want people to engage with it, or is that only allowed if I wholeheartedly agree with it? I think the term for that is an echo chamber, and the general consensus is that those are bad. As for my interest in understanding consciousness, well I see we are once again dipping into your omniscient knowledge of ME - which as previously stated is simply lazy. Well I'm glad we agree on that, it took you long enough ?. Feel free to correct all your previous incorrect statements to this effect. And neither do you - see we have more in common than you think ?

@Leo Gura Ah I see. Its a good thing that you have all this background about me, and what I do and don't know. I imagine that's very handy that you can simply call upon that knowledge to make statements about people, you know - rather than dealing with the inconvenience of facts and reality. But hey, if you prefer to fantasize a backstory for me then knock yourself out - whatever helps. I do, I have, we have talked about this before, and there is a world of difference between talking about a trip report like experience which is "in the moment", and the sort of stuff I criticised you for. Now if that REALLY is your answer, then you could simply have said so 2 years ago and the topic would have ended there. "Hi everyone its Leo! I recently made a video where I (paraphrasing) talked about being the most enlightened being who has existed in the history of this planet, and that I had been given special abilities by the universe which can cure all diseases and ailments, along with other paranormal abilities. Man I was really high, I got a bit lost in my own ego, and none of that stuff was intended to be taken literally. Apologies for the mixed messages - lets get back to the real work!" Wouldn't that have worked much better at defusing critics like me rather than this sulky knee-jerk reaction of "[inset name here] is a stupid troll who understands nothing"? I mean if you are acknowledging that these statements you made are just "in the moment" utterances then I have no problem with that at all, and if that's the case then why so defensive about it? Its almost like your ego (and its followers) cannot handle actual criticism ? Just to be transparent I think its plainly obvious that the "I'm leaving" video which I often reference as a source was not intended as an "in the moment" psychedelic process type video. Its like watching a manifesto of someone making (what they believe) is objective facts, peppered throughout with statements validating exactly that. I honestly think you would be better off just disowning such content in a manner like I gave above, acknowledging that the criticism was indeed justified, and putting it behind you - rather than dragging it on by insisting upon there being some hate campaign against you by malicious trolls.

@Leo Gura Hi Leo, just out of curiosity which of your "teachings" is it you think I don't like? I have been ultra-specific about the things you have said I take issue with, in all cases I have provided quotes straight from the horses mouth of you actually saying them, and none of them was related to any particular teaching. In reality what these criticisms were leveled at was your delusional utterances around abilities you gained from taking 5 MEO DMT, and those criticisms have held up AMAZINGLY well. Since you bring up the topic of mental gymnastics then I would invite you to look in the mirror. Rather than labeling those you disagree with as trolls, and fantasizing backstories about how they hate the teachings, wouldn't it just be easier and more courageous to simply acknowledge that on occasion you have said some things you shouldn't? That maybe there actually has been some really toxic shitty behaviour on these forums, and that when people bring these issues up then maybe they have a point? Doesn't that sound like a more mature approach than just having a tantrum and calling people trolls? Sure, I get that its easier to invent some grandiose narrative about someone who "HATES THE TEACHINGS!!!", but I think we both know that's complete bollocks don't we. Its really simple - you said some shit, you got called out on it, and you don't like that. No overarching story line of hate required. So yeah - mental gymnastics and personal attacks, that's you in a nutshell mate ?. I can, and have, backed up EVERY SINGLE criticism I make, whereas you just pull labels like "troll" and "hate" out of your arse because (when it comes to these criticisms) you do not have a logical or rational leg to stand on. I get that its an easier way of dealing with things, but its really fucking lazy, and certainly not what I would expect from such a well integrated, radically open minded, truth-seeker like you ?

@Scholar There is some interesting conflations going on there so lets try and unpack it. Firstly lets not confuse my audience with this forum, try and follow me on this. I comment on psychedelic culture and in doing so I make videos for my audience on YouTube Sometimes those videos cover the activities of this forum, but that doesn't mean that they are made for this forum People on this forum discuss my videos (in particular the one related to this forum) I am under no illusion that saying something they probably disagree with will cause them to disagree with it That someone will disagree with something is not reason not to say it Now if your logic is that there is something fundamentally wrong with saying something that people will disagree with, and that doing so makes me "a troll", then you are simply wrong. That is not what a troll is, and judging by your own declaration of how critical you are - that would also make you a troll. Leo himself also frequently states that he is "going to say something that will piss people off" I guess he is also a troll? So hey, now we are all trolls - awesome! ? How about this for an idea - why not chill with this absurd misuse of labels and perhaps take this opportunity to educate yourself on what the phrase actually means? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

There hasn't been anything about Actualized on my channel since last August, which is why its kinda funny to see this thread referencing me like I'm The Babbadook. Honestly, I'm flattered ? But in terms of the actual criticism there is plenty there already for you to work with. If you would like to have a dialogue then I am happy to send you some specific topics which we can unpack.

Again that is not accurate. I am 100% aware of WHY what I say is not well received here, and for you to think otherwise is incredibly naive. Can you find me one single occasion where I seem confused as to why Actualized.org is not happy with me being critical of Actualized.org? Could it be that this is yet another one of these lazy deflections? I have also seen Leo put this one forward on many previous occasions - again entirely without base, and here you are repeating it - interesting isn't it? Its almost like there is some kind of group-think going on...?

@Scholar Sure, on this occasion its a cheeky comment which is reflective of his actual belief, and its based on a misunderstanding or misuse of the word. Here is an example (link below) which I think illustrates this perfectly, and I can find you many more if you are interested. Now I don't want you to get confused that this is a major problem for me, but since my schtick is all about the delusional behaviour that goes on within this community and how those delusions form, then I think this is one worth highlighting. There is no trolling here, there is simply stuff that Leo doesn't like. And hey, if you guys are going to go throwing my name around like I'm the Babbadook then at least try and use accurate labels ?

@Inliytened1 I have no problem with you "being harsh" mate, and I am more than happy to get along. As I have said many times I am open to having a conversation with anyone to discuss any of these topics. In regards to my constructive criticism of Actualized then I already do it on my own channel, so feel free to check it out and if you feel like there is something I have gotten wrong and you would like to offer an opposing opinion on, then let me know and we can arrange a chat.

@Leo Gura Leo, if you don't know what the definition of a troll is then its probably best not to use it, but let me give you a few pointers. Calling you out for delusional claims around psychic superpowers and healing abilities is not trolling - its valid criticism Discussing the atmosphere within Actualized.org in the wake of a members suicide is not trolling - its valid criticism Highlighting the cult-like mentality within this community which cannot tolerate any criticism is not trolling - its valid criticism Just because you don't like what someone says about you doesn't make them "a troll", so please try and be less sloppy with your language - that's another valid criticism. Its an extremely lazy approach to simply label someone who has a differing opinion as a troll, but I guess that is easier than looking in the mirror and actually facing up to some uncomfortable truths. Serious question - Am I trolling you now Leo?

I don’t want to upset you mate but that was possibly the worst sales pitch ever.

Me neither, and anyone who thinks I have a problem taking on such people is simply wrong - Bring them on I say! I mean… is anyone here confused that my back is against the wall here? That the tone of my video and its editing style was some unintentional accident? That my target audience is here in Actualized? Seriously…? ?

The scientology example was to demonstrate that the person at the top of the pyramid tends to have a certain bias and lack of objectivity. It was an analogy mate, its not that complicated. Analogy “a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.

I agree that Actualized is not a cult and have said this many many times. There is a difference between a cult (like Scientology) and a cult of personality (like the fanatics around Donald Trump, even though Trump himself is not the leader of a cult). Actualized is not a cult, but there is a cult of personality around Leo which results in groupthink, delusional thinking, and is in my opinion pretty ridiculous. I make this distinction in the video, its even right there in the thumbnail. Again if you actually listen to the words then its not thst unreasonable.

@Leo Gura Dude, I am never surprised when people here disagree with me - what on earth gave you such a silly idea? We have even talked about this before so stop recycling these tired tropes. I enjoy these challenging discussions, I am not afraid to actually confront others about my ideas or beliefs, and in case you haven’t noticed I have quite a lot of fun in the process. You should try it sometime - IF YOU DARE! Honestly though you guys are pussycats compared to the SJW crowd I took on with Psymposia, so don’t kid yourself that a few disagreements on Actualized.org has me sobbing into my pillow ?

The only attacks were against the cult like mindset which I mske clear I think is absurd, and if you subscribe to that mindset then sure, you are going to feel ridiculed - that was 100% the intent. The victory was for rationality vs irrationality, and again this is clearly stated in the video. I thought Leo had turned a corner by disowning all that delusional stuff which is a win for rationality. If you actually listen to the arguments I make then they probably aren’t what you think they are, but people here get so easily triggered.

Yup, go back and watch my first video on Leo where i describe his earlier content as very interesting, and it was only when I got to the later stuff that his delusions became apparent. Question for ya bud… Did you actually pay attention to the words being spoken in my videos, or did you just dismiss them out of hand because you perceived them as heresy against the infallible guru? If you don’t listen to the words then you will never ever get the nugget.

Quick recap - the video really wasn’t about Leo, it was about the utterly insane personality cult around him, and a quick read through the comments from these so called “moderators” illustrates my point perfectly. To those who took the time to engage with the point at hand, even if you might not agree - thank you. To those who blindly dismiss it - thanks for being part of my inspiration to make it ??

Hi @Leo Gura It certainly IS amusing, because all the exact things you said in your "I'm leaving" video you now describe as signs of delusion - or is this one of those situations where it only applies to anyone who isn't you? I guess if YOU say that YOU are the most awakened person on the planet who has mystical healing powers then that's OK, but if someone ELSE said it then it would be delusional - am I understanding this correctly? One thing I will say is that if I misread this whole thing as your attempt to correct for last years absurd bullshit, when in actuality you are sticking to your guns, then I can only apologise, and don't worry I will soon correct the record and let my audience know that you are still in fact completely delusion. Again I would ask you to confirm exactly when you will begin to cure all human diseases, and instantaneously solve every problem for humanity. If you could do it by the end of this week that would be awesome. I thought I had made it fairly clear that I don't study your "body of work" because I don't think it is anything beyond a YouTube channel by an inexperienced and sometimes delusional young man. You are not some wizened sage who is worth seriously studying mate, and so I choose to invest my energies into material of a higher caliber. For all the points below I am happy to go and get the actual quotes if you deem it necessary - but do I really need to do this? its all in the first video straight from the horses mouth. I think this is a big part of your problem - I don't think you even know half the shit you have said. That is why your content is so contradictory, but anyway here is some rough counterpoints for you to chew on. No you haven't been promoting psychedelic safety since day one - don't be absurd. Day one of what? Your channel? Was it before or after you told everyone to take 5 MEO DMT or they were wasting decades of their life? Where is this public record you speak of? This wasn't a big criticism anyway so I'm not sure why you are banging on about it. Yes you did claim to be the messiah. You know when you say you are greater than Jesus, greater than Buddha, the most enlightened awakened person who ever existed on the history of this planet. The guy who was chosen by the universe to spread its highest teachings and gifted with the power to heal mankind - those are messianic claims you chump! In regard to the cult leader thing - are you simple? I have said about 10 times now that I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE A CULT LEADER. You do understand that a "cult of personality" is not the same thing as you leading a cult? Surely I don't have to explain the difference to someone as learned as you? So please... tell me again whose vision is clouded If you didn't want to correspond with me then just say so you big soft shit. You were the one who started it with the laughable bravado of "IF YOU DARE", so at least have the balls to say "I changed my mind". You are like the guy who challenges someone to a pistol duel but then comically runs off in the opposite direction when they say yes - its really lame, bordering on cowardice to be honest, and not what one would expect from a god-like being such as yourself. As for my unhealthy fixation with you - what can I say, there is A LOT of material here with you and your followers that just writes itself, and I think the bizarre mindset of this group is worth commenting on. Surely you would agree because you yourself have commented on other such groups, even in your recent video addressing the Jordan Peterson phenomenon - or is this another one of those situations where you are exempt... because Leo? I Think of it kinda like when SNL pokes fun at the ridiculousness of Donald Trump and his zealots, it works precisely because its true - and I'm sure it stings him for the same reason. The pretentious tend and egotistical tend to be burned most by ridicule. Finally mate, you don't have the last word on what spirituality is, nor god, nor anything - you are just a dude. Take care buddy