Natasha Tori Maru

You have a unique view. If I understand what you point to - the divine is the reaching out to the sublime? Sublime according to its proper definition. In service to something greater than ourselves? Maybe yes and more, is more accurate If I understand your divine component being an addition and not detracting from survival patterns. This might harken back to that pendulum swing analogy from another thread around here. Different domains overlapping.

Perhaps this is pointing towards the human minds proclivity toward certainty, arising from the survival domain.

Yeah, I think this was the mix-up - it wasn't totally clear who @Carl-Richard was referring to for me until I read the thread / watched the entire thing. Snap judgements and lack of diligence will get ya

I walked right into that. NGL I can't stop laughing

Man the more I develop my spiritual practice the more my body wants to move, wiggle. Flow. There is no resistance. Body moves. Stillness and movement are just one thing now. Nothing is everything. Both. And neither.

I think if awareness could say just one thing, and it be unquestionably true, it would be: 'I am' Was this an idea of 'I-amness' or did this phrase spring from some sort of cessation state of pure being-ness? It seems to me you touch on the awareness that is aware of. Thoughts, emotions, perceptions. The awareness that is now become aware of itself. Awareness with no attributes. Awareness that knows itself simply by being. 'I am' being its most irreducible recognition. Thank you for sharing

Sure, but not everyone adheres to Kinsey's definitions. Unique worldviews and all that.

The finer details of the argument surrounding what constitutes homosexual/heterosexual/bisexual etc are going to come down to if you define homosexuality/bisexuality/heterosexuality etc by sexual dimorphism or gender expression/identity. Or some combination of the above.

Anyone else experiencing the site just go down completely? Not even a glitch. Legit down

I do not see any mods admiring Vitaly, can you quote? From my perusal, he was being trashed by almost everyone.

Still not inherent! It relies on interpretation on both ends, rules and context prior to any clear meaning being found. Inferences mostly. Compressed reality.

Thank you. I appreciate this. More and more my spiritual practice is a physical transformation.

Words are not objects with inherent meaning.

What makes the first impression on you when listening to a tune, rhythm or melody? Do you play music, or dance? Many dancers and drummers I know tend toward noticing rhythm first, movement & beat. Other musicians hear the emotional crescendos of the melody & sequential pitches. I do not know if there is any pattern to be found here. I am a dancer and only ever learned some drums and a touch of bass guitar (rhythm). I have always heard the beat and rhythm first. It catches me before the melody. I feel the beat in my body as movement, I feel the melody as an emotional weight in my chest and heart 😃

Hmm. To be clear, I tactfully avoid those sorts of discussions and hierarchies. I see it as more attachment - the opposite of surrender. A deception. It's just making spirituality another ground, after erasing all other grounds. When everything needs to be thrown away, including all seeking, all spirituality, in the end. Spiritual ego.

We are automatically going to filter all descriptions of experience through language. The insidious cataract between our awareness and reality 💀 Everything is therefor always going to be inherently muffled, incoherent and obscured. No wonder teaching is so hard, so many misunderstandings arise, and so many fights are had!

I apologise if my words offended you. I did not mean it so. I was attempting to describe spiritual endeavours without using the word seeker, and to do credit to what you yourself described. It is a simple misunderstanding, no offence meant. I am open to not knowing. Because I do not know anything for certain. I make no grand claims, nothing about what I have experienced is remarkable at all. No-thing can cause awakening. Do you have issue then, with engaging in things that make one 'accident prone' to reaching awakening? The process you highlight, this : This isn't surrender, though. This is gaining something. You suffer. Then boom. Suffer, surrender. Surrender is giving up practice. Giving up reading, giving up liking, giving up orientation. The thing is, you don't even need to do those things, then give them up. None of it is necessary. So there doesn't even need to be seeking or training or orientation. In my own experience, I never learned of this surrender to try it. Suffering was so great, surrender just happened. As if it were so natural, as if to breathe. Surrender nullifies. I think I felt some charge behind this line of enquiry, as it is along similar lines to several other conversations. IE I believe taking action causes the brain to rewire to bias to action, and rewiring the brain does not come before action. Similar line of enquiry here. Indeed, I am not sure if it is clear - beliefs being smuggled into the process can happen. Confirmation bias - surrender exhumes this. Not sure if it was clear that was agreed upon. I claim this is not spirituality. Seeking isn't the path. Regardless, I do not want to upset you. So I will respectfully tap out 🙏

I would look at my statement above as I think of it; I am not good enough at finding the words and descriptions to bring clarity to this.

Okay. This is just is not correct. There is no seeking. There is nothing to reach. There is no level. Whatever you are describing has nothing to do with spirituality. Nothing. I think there might be a confusion because you have stated truth is not for you. You don't actually know what you are talking about - and I mean no offence - you admitted this in a few threads. It appears to be an attampt to understand from the intellect. Surrender that. You can't train something to surrender - it is a total misnomer. You're even giving up 'train'. I can't go any further with this. It is a concept you are trying to squish onto spirituality.

I haven't watched all of it, but it was an interesting conceptualization of language! Looking at it as something foreign, parasitic and fundamentally altering our entire perception. Language is fascinating.

What do you take God-realized to mean?

https://youtu.be/Ca_RbPXraDE?si=sW07Xkh2EvK859Zb

Yes, because it is surrender. That's the whole point. Give it all up. Do you think you can summarise the point of this thread in one sentence? Because the whole thing is so disjointed, it just seems like you are saying 'humans are biased/delusional'. I don't get it. This is a given. This is intellect trying. This is one of Leo's core messages also.

There is no training of consciousness. This is an additive process. The process isn't additive.

Not uncomfortable, a total misunderstanding. This does not even incorporate surrender. It also misses no one becomes awakened, enlightened. It is not about looking for truth. It is about removing. Subtraction. There is no frame. Again, it is not about seeking. Not about meaning.