Natasha Tori Maru

@Joseph Maynor cool 👌🏻 Can you give some examples of emotion / feeling arising independently of ego? Might be good to define ego etc while we are at it

@TruthFreedom hahahaha well, there you go - my interpretation was off the mark. One of the best things about art is the symbols mean something different for everyone. Thank you for sharing 😊

Should have just plowed Voldemort with 5meo https://youtu.be/UqWJ6uf8AGE?si=0Xgdq3oe6y5QWaQx

I genuinely do! I want to know what your reference was, or was it purely from recall? I like that no hard black shades were used to bring depth and instead you varied the colour. This always results in a better image, imo. Black shading often makes hand rendered images too much like a simulacra of life. It has the traditional balanced form of the Buddhist lotus position, juxtaposed with the Addidas stripe on the border of the robe - forcing they eye to settle in balance as it traces the stripes, and the up to the sash and symbol. There's a fluid visual harmony in the irony of such a combination - Buddhism is equinimity and balance. Desire / aversion. But then the brand Addidas is about desire, status, attachment. Brilliant chicanery 😈

Similar to the domain of sex for men. That drive has the potential to override rationality. Strong drives override higher order reasoning. For both sexes.

Safety 🎯

It's a myth. Not even - it's part of toxic online communities and algorithms. It's often quoted as a statistic stripped of context, often from dating apps and then applied to the wrong domain. Beauty is very subjective. Status doesn't mean shit to some women. To others it does. Some women want a man with lots of money; some don't. Personality and the ability to engage her positive emotions is usually very attractive to a women. It can trump almost any other quality.

Then 'tis not so Have a nice night

Okay this is why you are quite charged. Read what I wrote again - at no point did I say it was unrefined. More that we can always refine our views. Not you per se. All of us. The conversation is an opportunity for me to refine my thoughts also ! I didn't say it was unrefined - you assumed.

Oh right, got it. I just couldn't see where you argued a clear case that anger was arising outside of ego. I felt like that conversation went by the wayside and didn't even get started. I'm certainly not minimising conflict. I don't mind conflict.

No worries. I didn't even realise there was disagreement.

@Joseph Maynor in the recent line of enquiry I don't think anyone is denying anger in their experience. Well at least, I do not. Anger happens in everyone's experience. I think it is part of being human. This topic is very tied in to our individual affect and temparements in general. As a side point, most people aren't even able to distinguish anger from a whole host of other feelings/emotions that run parallel or can feel very similar.

You beat me to it!

I find when I am not attached to what is being criticised I do not get angry or react. Just as an example - I submitted a claim for a lot of electrical work to a client. One of the consultants wrote an email back raising the lack of diligence in detailed costs and breakdowns. There were some hard words about levels of professionalism and diligence in the email. The consultant was having an emotional anger based reaction because the price was their design - so they felt partially responsible for the price. However, to avoid this feeling of shame for designing something of high price, he attempted to shame me by criticizing my work compiling the submission. I did not get angry due to his criticism. It was a poor submission and lacked detail. What the consultant did not know, was that I had no time for a detailed price; we had to begin the work asap prior to the ceiling being plastered. So the figures were lump sums simply to gain approval. The submission was not to my standard - but sometimes done is good enough under pressure. I gave the fella a call to clarify, and then later provided a detailed breakdown which was accepted. I was heavily criticised in email with the client, superintended, architect, consultants and qty surveyor. I think most people would feel shame in my shoes, but I did not. Even if I had submitted sloppy work with no excuse. So what? I submitted crap work. I just take responsibility regardless of fault. Just need a solution. For me, my work is what I do. It isn't who I am. It doesnt make me more valid. I just ' am '. I perform when I need to under given restraints. I am not attached. Similar to my thoughts & ideas. They happen, but I am not attached to them. Just ideas. The problem is, most people cannot detangle their emotions from their work. Their creation. They are entangled. I still experience being triggered at work, but much less so. A lot of deep, deep shame, trauma and emotional / feeling work has gone to get me into this space. Spirituality is beautiful for this process. I have problems when people treat each other cruelly, or display deep, deep hubris / bigotry.

You could also look at it as an opportunity to further refine your worldview regarding emotions / feelings. I suppose anger is both. Good questions prompt refinement and insight 😃 This forum in general is quite lacerated from emotion / feeling. Much more heady, ungrounded intellectualism here.

As in, will I engage in good faith? Or course! Why else would I discuss this? If someone presents a good argument I will concede a point for sure. That's why I engage. I am not so entrenched in an epistemic worldview like some here. Who insist, interject and correct incessantly. Clash of epistemic worldviews that ends up in constipated passive aggressive shit. I can agree to disagree in peace. But I know the context we come from given all the recent forum shenanigans.

@Joseph Maynor definitely disagree. You can be critical in assessment with discernment only, removing judgement. Judgement typically provokes the ego. Criticism tends to trigger anger when it hits at someones identity. Criticism can be received when it is not entangled with identity. Or we trust the others intentions IE in a good faith discussion. I suppose it depends if it touches at identity. Which is why I propose criticism isn't always ego related.

@Joseph Maynor Critisizm is for sure not the only source of anger - in fact - one can criticize without anger.

@Joseph Maynor When do you perceive anger to arrive from sources outside the ego?

@Lyubovagree with much of this. I'll add: Men are often socialised out of emotional connection, both with each other and with themselves. Stoicism, being strong, carrying burdens, being dependable for others; these are masculine ideals most men are exposed to from a young age. As children, boys and girls both experience the full gamut of emotion. Both seek comfort, reassurance, connection, and emotional attunement from parents and family. Culturally, women are generally encouraged to maintain and deepen emotional connection as they grow older, while many men are steered away from this. It can be discouraged in the face of the masculine ideals external to us. A lot of men learn that vulnerability risks shame, rejection, weakness, or social isolation. Emotional expression is then filtered, minimised, hidden. Over time, many are left without the kind of support networks that women are more often encouraged to build and maintain. I don’t think men necessarily have - more - emotional needs than women. I think many men simply have fewer socially acceptable outlets for those needs to be met. When in emotional pain, many men are carrying it with less support, less practice expressing it, and fewer people checking in on them. This circles right back to the male loneliness epidemic. And much of the toxic red pill idealogy recognises men's emotional needs - but fails to present a good solution.

Robert talks about his new book here - but this conversation was a good outline of his general view. It might help clear up some of the negativity around 48 laws of power. It supplies good context. I actually enjoyed this one from Huberman. I am, in general, not a fan. His new book sounds like it speaks to spiritual endeavours.

Rofl myself included. The same primordial slime 😃

Yeah, I mean. It is a leftover joy from younger days. Plus, when you have a motorcycle accident - it's generally not a little boo-boo. It's usually catastrophic. I'll avoid turning into a meat crayon just so I can return here to raucously rub brains with Carl - And the rest of the forum goers 🫠🫠🫠

@Zigzag Idiot I gotchu fam

Oh boy, new Boards of Canada!! https://youtu.be/74NluS3jzTo?si=A9l_cp9ZfKU6bPMB