Natasha Tori Maru

The implication that AI is "intelligent" can "decide" or "reason" is that it must experience emotions and feelings, yes? The work of Antonio Damasio (not sure if you guys know this neuroscientist), who ran studies on patients with damage to their ventromedial prefrontal cortex, showed they struggled to make simple, everyday decisions. This part of the brain is important for linking emotion to reasoning. The patients had normal IQ's, intact memory and could reason logically. Emotion provides value - this is why it is critical. Reason provides "what follows from these premises?", emotion provides "why should I care". They work in tandem. So without emotion, reason has no objective function. Reason is calculating and then the emotion is supplying the goal. I would argue that humans interaction with AI is supplying the "goal" or emotion (by providing values, preferences, motivations), and the algorithm/calculation is the AI reasoning. The AI is not generating any feelings/emotions. So a large portion of the humans ground-up reasoning is being outsourced to it. A good example of the above in action: "I'll invest in index funds because they're statistically optimal." Seems rational. Underneath are hidden emotional/motivational values: I want financial security, I dislike unnecessary risk, I value long term planning, I prefer maximizing returns etc etc. The above is also why I consider feelings and emotions to important to all domains of philosophy and consciousness work.

Why You Will Forgive Everyone To add onto this - most people do not understand forgiveness. It is perceived that forgiveness is about the other being. It is not. It is about You. And re-establishing connection to other, and so, reconnecting with ones Self. It also dovetails into the powerful first taste of surrender for many. One has to "give up" their love affair with whatever they get from not forgiving. And make no mistake, there is something we get emotionally and intellectually from not forgiving others. Most people forget about internal addictions. Internal addictions to fuelling anger. Resentment. Hatred. Disgust. These feelings carry energy sensations in the body, and most people are so disconnected from their bodies they need charged states to perceive any sensation at all. But these emotions are signals we are not connected. No good comes from this. Deepen and expand your connection beyond the charged heights of the surface - in turn raise your awareness and consciousness.

You most likely will need to define what you mean by 'intelligent behaviour' because Leo and yourself may be speaking about entirely different concepts. You seem to be pointing toward any organism operating like it's own LLM entrained on its own "experience" data? Wild concept (might not be your stance) to think we are all LLMs skittling around, entrained on experience I think a more defensible statement might be "Intelligent behaviour does not emerge from nothing; it is typically sourced from prior information, whether learned, inferred, evolved biological structures, or innate."

This effect is well documented in other domains that do not even involve "consumption" ie reading a book on epistemology, or watching a video on YouTube. The effect of having viewed something is often conflated with having understood that thing. Speaking about plans and projects has a similar onflow effect, although in a different domain. The act of speaking about the topic, plan, or concept makes us feel we are 1) making progress toward the thing and 2) increases our own perceived understanding of the topic/plan/concept. There is also an element of fluency heuristics we use where familiar information feels easier to process - and then we mistake fluency with mastery. It is usually not until we are questioned critically, or we critically inspect the "how, who, what, why?" of the thing that we see the holes, assumptions, inferences and logic/fallacies behind our understanding of the thing. In particular hidden assumptions - assumptions in general - are ways to strengthen an argument. They band-aid over weak points. Anyway, I digress a bit there...

Agree there is agency in it, but ultimately because the frame lacerates out part of the systems of social reality, one is bound to run into some interesting conundrums and potential traps 🙃

Thinking you can achieve any sort of shattering of anything, is a type of magical thinking rooted in codependence

@AerisVahnEphelia if you own the ethics of it and are okay with it - more power to you. But still. Stolen. 😈

@Carl-Richard Thanks I HATE IT

@AerisVahnEphelia so pointing out hypocrasy is a fallacious line of reasoning. Some more hoops and mental gymnastics 😁 Nice way to slink out of responsibility!

I know, right? Same for me. All other tactics didn't work, so this was the card played? Hahaha

I do shit (shit#1) - then shit (shit#2) occurs afterwards. Shit#1 and Shit#2 appear to be associated. But in reality, all I can say is one shit is happening then another. I am making a connection between the two shits - via inference - up in my head? I got to this based on determinism / free will and reviewing this thread: Confused with free will I don't think I can say anything else other than "I observe some pattern of shit, some regularities of said shit, and some sequences of shit" Correct me if I am wrong - but I am making this connection up?

That's just your own wiggly way of avoiding the IP issue.

Using stolen data. Stolen creation.

Nonplussed - that is a word. It describes my reaction. What else?

There is emotion behind it that requires inspection. And it will repeat unless connected with. Easy to see from the outside - but when one experiences it, sometimes not so clear. Because I question it, does not mean I do not understand it (because it is obvious there is a cost). The question is a reframe. The feeling and emotion when examined in new ways - particularly when we try to find where we FIRST felt that emotion - is the key to putting to rest what is felt to be lost as payment; "cost" of the work. It is not something anyone here teaches. Powerful tool.

What do you mean by this?

Using spirituality to avoid responsibility is some mental gymnastics, indeed.

Nonplussed

Most welcome 😇

I don't personally see a development / evolution path from current AI to AGI.

What are you talking about. You made it up. Scientific or not - irrelevant. Then you tried to gaslight and claim you didn't say it. What sort of delulu land do you exist in?!? It must be quite confusing internally.

@something_else honestly, you sound blessed to be employed in a workplace that has adapted and restructured quickly as a result of advances in AI. Do you imagine your job would be less satisfying without such quick evolution? Cheers for sharing too

@StaraX and sometimes it's not even the Red Pill thinking that is toxic - but the solutions people propose as a "fix" to their problems, that are the real issue.

@Butters yes I am familiar with how it works now, I played up until Midnight 🙂 You will enjoy Chromie time !

I wish there was a full on breakdown in-depth interview that went into Blizzards history (and the Activision merge). Jeff Kaplan goes into how turd operations and marketing people eat the soul of good game designers and creators, and guts out a business. I really enjoy interviews with the guys behind Blizzard (I am a huge Chris Metzen fangirl huehue). NGL I hate Lex Friedman