Natasha Tori Maru

Its a baby roo!! I see them along my bike trails in the morning. Roos populate metro areas of Australia 😁

I suspect there is a genetic component - great grandmother, grandmother and mother and sister all have or had it. Caveat there as my great grandmother had all the symptoms but never a diagnosis. None of the men in my family had it.

@BlessedLion I get you. I have extremely strong intuitive feelings that are rarely wrong. I do often sit with it, and probe further, to ensure I am not being mislead by a feeling based on some existing bias. So I try to test the feeling. It usually comes up that the 6th sense is correct, though. I just feel I need to do my diligence against my twisty little mind 😁

For someone who submitted such a poor research thesis for his PhD, I cannot say I am surprised AI was used in such a lazy way with very little review (broken down in the video). I think the overall points Mike makes encourage much greater attachment to the physical body, and there isn't enough emphasis on "this body matters, so I will look after it". The issue isn't caring about the body - but making the body into the foundation of identity / value / psychological security. Similar crossover to some of the more problematic extreme views within the looksmaxxing movement (hardmaxxing). I don't think it is good to encourage our wellbeing, identity, worth or security to depend on our bodies being a certain way.

The problem with how this dialogue is infolding is that an interpretive conclusion is reached prior to doing enough information gathering first (IE there are no genuine probing questions being asked to understand how other users arrived at their dating strategies, why it worked etc). The answers are being funnelled through a pre-existing frame and a conclusion is reached. Essentially it reads like a frame is adapted and the model is rigid and doesn't want to be updated. It's not difficult to see this play out as whenever information that might contradict the model is encountered it is discarded without much inspection (hence the lack of questioning, flat two word responses discarding users views, methods and experience). Reacting not responding. And I have a feeling this is because what is being said is misunderstood due to a lack of open curiousity around other users experience and methods (again as there are no who what why when questions, and simple "no" answers). I don't really understand the purpose of the thread myself when this is the pattern here. But I see a genuine attempt to work out a path for dating, it could simply be that there is so much emotional load behind the dilemma it's making it hard to take on alternative views that might push against an existing model. I get it as it is normal. I go through the same thing often. I don't see that the issue is that a particular conclusion was reached - it's that it was jumped to without truly understanding what was said by other users beyond a surface proposition.

... when you don't understand wtf you are doing Certainty is NOT a proxy for strength and disagreements aren't a dominance contest. It is a nice way to invalidate first person knowledge and creates a wonderful little self-sealing psychological model. Mind reading, rewarding one's own projection, discouraging honest and genuine curiosity. Bad frame control makes any sort of repair process difficult while suppressing reciprocal emotions. Causing nothing more than misunderstanding and division. The opposite of connection - what relationships are all about. It is the essence of performative masculinity. Nothing screams "low on the totem pole" more. It also selects for women who tolerate being overridden (bad boundaries and sense of self). You push way women who value maturity over hierarchy, women who can distinguish confidence from rigidity, women who don't need a man to tell them who they are, women who don't reward status games & appreciate being challenged but not overridden. Women that want to be encountered and not just emotionally dissected - women who want to be met with emotional intimacy. Women who genuinely find vulnerability more attractive that invulnerability. Good frame holding doesn't require you to actually control someone else's frame.

@Miguel1 I was just making conversation... 2/3

Also to add on to my point above - I look for integrity as it is a cleaner transmission to pick up on from a person; do their actions and behaviour match their words and intention? The signal is more obvious as it is behavioural and acted out in the real world. Authenticity and integrity are linked and operate together in my experience - authenticity is about “Am I being true to what I actually experience, value, think, and feel?”. Integrity can be viewed more like “Am I behaving consistently with what I claim to value, even when there is a direct cost to me?” Looking for integrity, which usually requires assessment over time, can be a great green flag for authenticity - not guaranteed but because they work together it's a good heuristic. I then see this as authentic integity; our inner experience, professed values, and behaviour aren't fundamentally at war with one another. Another reason why I don't rush to hasty conclusions too early. 2/3 months of dating is good for me to want to take next steps.

I think it can work both ways. I wouldn't be so quick to discard establishing a good understanding of the person through varied, shared experience. You only see who someone truly is in integrity between their behaviour/word, and that needs to be assessed over time. I haven't ever found a heuristic that can shortcut the process. I've been surprised many times! From my perspective, jumping in too soon can also be conformity. Blindly following feelings or chemistry without really attending to the above system I loosely outlined ( and at the start, the initial rush and flurry of meeting someone new can lead to fantasy and strong hormonal pushes that override sense). This is what society constantly brainwashes us is love and connection via movies, media and TV.

Do you think you can accurately see someone's soul from a few dates in?

From perfect. I can be a right little shit! Online is very different to real world - although I have met some great people online who were as they appeared. All of these strategies and ways of being were hard earned, I had my trial by fire and made many, many mistakes along the way. I dare say you just see a better version of me now that I have grown. They say "beware wisdom that is unearned". My shit was earned. Through suffering - yes, but crazy resilience and self belief. I guess this process developed a deep sense of self trust and connection. So I remain clear in who I am and what I want. I am very different in real life to how I might present online. I am not a very serious person I know there are others out there like me, there just have to be! Finding them would be the difficult part. There is simply SO much less face to face interaction these days compared to when I was younger. That makes it hard. I have no clue how to find someone like me. I have the same trouble from the other side of the yin/yang coin

Someone linked this to me, haven't gotten around to it ( if any of you stupendous souls want to dive in )

In the autobiography of Steve Jobs, people around him said that he creates a "reality distortion field". His narrative was so strong that people believed it, even if it made no sense and wasn't real. He had a strong, powerful, compelling narrative, and many people around him accepted it as reality. This is a type of frame control that doesn't use overt coercion - although this is a description of an interpersonal effect and not necessarily a deliberate frame control technique he consciously employed. I think he just did it.

Depends how you approach dating. All my best, deepest and longest lasting relationships were with men who I was great friends with prior. I still love those men (even if not romantically) and speak to them regularly. I approach it like friendship; I see one friend for coffee on a Tuesday, squeeze in an impromptu river walk with another Saturday morning etc. Whatever I can do to keep up connection and mutual care/fun. I just do the same with dating, as I firmly believe establishing a basic friendship is the fertile soil for a great relationship. I am slow to warm up, my feelings and attraction develop over time. I like to see men in different situations & experiences and how we both react separately, and then contrast this. I like to allow attraction to develop alongside knowledge of the person. I don't necessarily think "You need to be friends first", more that a strong romantic relationship usually benefits from the qualities of a good friendship. This method avoids some pitfalls I fell into when younger in less mature relationships - I get to prioritise liking the person before I idealise them and it assists me in observing character as attraction develops. I get to test compatibility through normal, ordinary life and I get to witness interactional patterns over time as opposed to isolated behaviour. When I was younger I was much more inclined to fall for my idea of a person's potential, or my own fantasy a life with them.

There he is Appreciate the input

There might be some gentleman around here who know about how it works in a beneficial way Thinking of maybe @aurum As someone on the receiving end of it done poorly - it feels like someone trying to force control and transmits low intelligence, stubbornness and insecurity.

I'm on it boss. Master origami pretzel mode myself into perfection. Conditioning? Dissolved

🤣🤣🤣 Get ready

This thread is the definition of unhinged ⊙⁠.⁠☉

I don't want to straight pathologise him; but he really displays a lot of the markers for body dismorphia

I see that there are women who do play by the paradigm he operates from. I simply don't fit that. It's a flaw to flatten an entire sex down into generalisations with no nuance.

I get that, but AION isn't trying to understand anything about me. He is trying to force me to fit into his model of how women work, and when I claim that's not me, that's not how I work, he is incapable of accepting that claim. This is why I think it's weird. And mansplany. And once again applying a sweeping generalisation to all women and how they work. No nuance. Just "all woman work that way"

I don't know what this is about. It seems confused. You don't know any of my wants or needs from men??? I never said or made this explicit. I never claimed life wasnt fair or complained about it. You can have your needs. And it's perfectly fine to want to be part of status hierarchies. I am saying I don't go for those guys. It's your choice not to believe it. You express so much indignation because I don't fit your model. I just don't fit your model.

Not quite, I probably didn't formulate my point clearly enough. I’m not arguing that a persons understanding of their own inner experience should automatically be prioritised over another persons interpretation (or that self-report is infallible). My point is much narrower: when we have an inference about someone’s internal state, and that person tells us our inference doesn't match their actual experience, that should be treated as evidence worth considering. It should prompt some healthy doubt about whether our model is accurate (hence why I also raised about gathering information and testing against current models + updating if needed). They may be wrong about themselves, and we may be wrong about them. Neither position should be treated as automatically infallible. But in this specific case, given forum history and context (always asserting how "things are for women" or how "I am", lack of openness in this domain, lack of enquiry or probing questions, demonstrated inability to update models or drop frame, and general uncharitable engagement) my position is well founded.