Natasha Tori Maru

@LordFall I had to remove a lot of unconscious put downs, condescension, trolling and turd rhetoric I picked up from hardcore WoW raiding and Arena. It might not be the case with you. I could be projecting my own shit. I operated from the mode that that sort of rhetoric was good for me, hardened me and made me still pay attention to objective facts despite the sledging (thick skin). So I figured others would respond how I did. I was so wrong 🤣 just because I could tolerate being told to fuck off, or get in the kitchen - didn't mean others would respond how I did 🥹 Hard wakeup call that I can't just facts and logic my way through. I had to learn to relate to the person first, ask them about their experience and meaning, values - so they felt seen. People became remarkably pliable and open to my points as soon as they felt understood. Learned that from an ENTJ in business who was a fucking juggernaut at convincing others. I use that relating tool with all my contractors so we keep a tight knight group of trusted subbies we take from project to project to maintain quality construction.

It's a rhetorical question. But I would never do this. I wouldnt want to contribute to waste in this way. I don't even own a car and ride my bike on the grounds of waste and pollutants 😀

Got it. But that's got nothing to do what what I raised. Can you see that you are making character judgements of users when they don't agree with you? There are many possibilities as to why they may not agree. It could simply be communication styles and not the substance of the arguement. Communication style can have little to do with intelligence or competence. The tendancy is to think "this person has somehing wrong, I can see it, so I'll tell them" - but that is fraught with inference. We aren't mind readers (regardless of how much I might fancy myself one!). It doesn't help your case to immediately jump to some defect in the other person when they don't grasp, understand or agree with your point. Explanation is not understanding. I note you mentioned coming from competitive gaming. I do as well. That environment is toxic and trolly as fuck. It took me a good few years to rid myself of how bad my own rhetoric was as a result of 10 years in that world. Some of that poor rhetoric, condescension, put downs and defence might originate from there.

I agree. It is a difficult issue - some of the younger gen learn attraction mechanisms based on a toxic online environment. These "skills" then do not directly translate to face-to-face attraction. They actually tend to retard development.

So, when you have a worldview or frame that acts to discount any falsifiability - the model is self sealing. Exchanges will then repeatedly function to discount the phenomenological information supplied by anyone - the frame is being used to reduce other people to NPC's. If you don't agree - you are "lower", "not conscious enough", "projecting", "need to do shadow work", "not sufficiently intellectually developed". Any objections to the framework are explained away. The model acquires a built-in defence against falsification. This is how you get stuck in paradigms. It also has the rather nasty side effect of reducing the person down to some mechanism and can potentially induce a dehumanizing feeling in others (they are just NPC's the model explains, not real people with individual meaning, experience, values that genuinely differ). What is worse - is when the model (or frame) is then used to pathologise some part of your view in a further attempt to reduce, discount and discard any genuine points being raised against it. "Your argument is mistaken because your psychology is defective."

We should be treating medical circumstances as unknown unless more detailed information is provided - putting forth solutions based on inference rather than asking what is referred to isn't charitable.

I would laugh if the word slop wasn't used. Geriatric would send me 🤣

Very difficult issue though - adapt to a horrid courtship environment and potentially learn maladaptive relational strategies that can translate to poor relationship skills. Previously when apps weren't a thing, there was more opportunity to learn many of these relational skills though socialisation. And real, face to face feedback from others would give you something to reflect against that would encourage the fostering and growth of good, healthy social dynamics. You didn't tend bring along maladaptive habits from a digital environment - because it wasn't as big of a thing. Think gen z stare

How can I connect?

This is about where I sit on this topic. Well said. Dating apps and social media in particular can fuck off. It tend to view it as green flag when someone isn't on them.

Listened while I made dinner - cheers for the share. Get around all the points you raised and overall review ❤️

Same for me, really. I find it confusing. MAKE IT MAKE SENSE Also worth it to note - we are doing two very different things when we say "I don't prefer stories in videogames" to ripping on a videogame by claiming it is childish.

I just dismissed his take there - it was said from ignorance. If Leo doesn't like story in videogames that's cool.

The survival brain! Ambiguity is not appreciated from the lymbric brains perspective. Yes. Huge topic.

@Joshe And for this enquiry - I wasn't able to tame the Ni drive for closure. I wanted an ANSWER god dammit. I feel I'm not done with castigating Authenticity thoroughly, though. But it is a good exercise in driving into the feeling of "wonder" (which is a not-knowing). I find anything that can trigger genuine wonder in me is fuel for good Ni times. Which is why I have a hard on for "not-knowing" but not as a form of knowledge erasure or preliminary space, but genuine wonder. Curiosity and awe. That real "what the fuck?" feeling of encountering something that is clearly bigger than my current knowledge, where I can't immediately compress it into an explanation. That combination of curiosity + awe + epistemic insufficiency is delicious. I think I like wonder as a doorway because it doesn't require an absence of an answer - just a recognition that what I currently have on file is inadequate. Not knowing can be confused with just "empty".