Natasha Tori Maru

I'm on it boss. Master origami pretzel mode myself into perfection. Conditioning? Dissolved

🤣🤣🤣 Get ready

This thread is the definition of unhinged ⊙⁠.⁠☉

I don't want to straight pathologise him; but he really displays a lot of the markers for body dismorphia

I see that there are women who do play by the paradigm he operates from. I simply don't fit that. It's a flaw to flatten an entire sex down into generalisations with no nuance.

I get that, but AION isn't trying to understand anything about me. He is trying to force me to fit into his model of how women work, and when I claim that's not me, that's not how I work, he is incapable of accepting that claim. This is why I think it's weird. And mansplany. And once again applying a sweeping generalisation to all women and how they work. No nuance. Just "all woman work that way"

I don't know what this is about. It seems confused. You don't know any of my wants or needs from men??? I never said or made this explicit. I never claimed life wasnt fair or complained about it. You can have your needs. And it's perfectly fine to want to be part of status hierarchies. I am saying I don't go for those guys. It's your choice not to believe it. You express so much indignation because I don't fit your model. I just don't fit your model.

Not quite, I probably didn't formulate my point clearly enough. I’m not arguing that a persons understanding of their own inner experience should automatically be prioritised over another persons interpretation (or that self-report is infallible). My point is much narrower: when we have an inference about someone’s internal state, and that person tells us our inference doesn't match their actual experience, that should be treated as evidence worth considering. It should prompt some healthy doubt about whether our model is accurate (hence why I also raised about gathering information and testing against current models + updating if needed). They may be wrong about themselves, and we may be wrong about them. Neither position should be treated as automatically infallible. But in this specific case, given forum history and context (always asserting how "things are for women" or how "I am", lack of openness in this domain, lack of enquiry or probing questions, demonstrated inability to update models or drop frame, and general uncharitable engagement) my position is well founded.

Can you quote me, or give me some more of your interpretation here? It could simply be that context was lost in the back and forth, because this originally was about a specific interaction with history. I could possibly have branched off in a way that isn't specific to the initial interaction.

So my claim there is that it should be something to be considered. Healthy doubt to test our knowing. This is just a normative/epistemic claim and part of critical thinking. You don't think this is necessary?

I agree with this!

Such a naughty one, this one 😈 NGL I feel this is a result of the dairy industry's influence

Feel free to elaborate.

No, not necessarily. I never said you cannot infer and be accurate. If you read my passage again, I explicitly grant that inference is legitimate. Inference is fine; treating it as knowledge is a problem.

You can believe whatever you want via whatever inference or whatever heuristic you have developed. But it is still inferred. Not known. It is a belief. My heuristic for knowing AION has no idea how I respond internally is his continual and systematic misunderstanding of me throughout our entire history of the forum. The arrogance of thinking we understand someone's internal responses better than they do must also be inspected. This rolls back into having charitable and good faith discussions. There's another distinction underneath this: holding a model of someone vs remaining receptive to evidence that your model is wrong. Models of others are provisional until we have further evidence. AION has a model of how he thinks I would respond. That's fine. But I supplied direct evidence about my actual response, and instead of treating that as information capable of updating his model, he dismissed it. So in this instance it is reasonable to know I (and my internal responses) am being misunderstood.