Natasha Tori Maru

This is salient. There are tons of negatives to aging. Even if we drum up a list (which would be easy, imo) I sort of wonder what sort of weight each point would carry against your statement above (personal for everyone). Because it moves toward a sort of equanimous peace and gratitude based state of being. Which isn't guaranteed either, but powerful. Man, the pain of getting old. Like, literally pain - that gets me. I think it is short sighted putting too much weight on the aesthetics of aging as a negative. It's mostly done by those who are too young to yet feel their health erode and pain arise. Idgaf about saggy tits if my basic existence is punctuated by pain and suffering. Poor health / chronic medical issues. Quality of life is priority for me, over longevity.

Can you brainstorm up some good things about aging?

I think I'd try to approach this from the angle that the main points make a case for "cult like structure", but not the cult criteria. I think the cult criterias of coercive control, punishment for leaving, isolation from outsiders (physical and mental), financial exploitation & suppressing of dissent (especially in later eras of actualized.org) could be looked at deeper. I case might be made that perhaps at one stage actualized.org fit the cult model better and has slowly evolved away from most of the detrimental cult aspects.

@Wilhelm44 would take time to gather data points I imagine. @zurew's evidence, premise and conclusion is solid. I thought about countering it, but I cannot hit all angles comprehensively. The narcissistic angle is an interesting one. I was looking up studies regarding development of narcissistic defence mechanisms and traits in response to being a public, online social media figure earlier. How facing constant critique / feedback might cement the ego and calcify thinking patterns. But this only serves to argue Leo could change and he didn't have any personality disorder as a fit (ie his reactions online were habitually developed). Constant gaslighting has great effects on the psyche (especially regarding ones grip of reality ie psychosis + psychedelics). I also considered mapping a timeline of Leo's posts as linked by Zurew, in an attempt to track a pattern illustrating the rise in his egoic and arrogant statements and look at timelines between his largest expletive episodes. More to track growth to see if Leo's behaviour had become more grounded with time. When he was taking peak psychedelics, when his most ungrounded claims were being made. When he took longer breaks etc. A structured timeline. But none of this goes toward the entire argument, it can only attend to one or two points. And I continually found my points of research and pattern matching to steelman Zurew even more 🤣 The cult fit is a very, very difficult one to shake. My only attempt there could possibly be a reframe entirely; that not all cults are bad. Present examples (which I have one or two that fit the cult model, but aren't negative or bad to me). I might be able to tackle some angles, but at the moment, my work is my priority. I have 2 medical centres at handover in big trouble with the RBS and I have roadblocks to getting occupancy granted. This is literally sucking the life out of me coming up with insane solutions to get compliance on the most fucked up design I have ever seen. Zurew seems like a very patient chap, so it might out if I get some free time soon. A charitable engagement because I would be debating a side I don't necessarily agree with in totality. But a good challenge nonetheless - I used to debate topics I didn't agree with all through high school (fucken decades ago, skills have eroded). And I would want to do the topic justice. But I am facing a juggernaut with Zurew Pretty sure I will just end up reinforcing the opposite side as well!

Love all the arbitrary numbers here. Really impressive logical derivation and critically reasoned out. Doesn't appear absorbed from, or have any overlap, with popular content creators.. at all 😃

Even I want this. But I cannot, as a mod 😢 Half the time I don't read replies when I know I'm going to read a torrent of incoherence

I'm considering closing this. Is it going to go anywhere else, at this point? Any other mods can pitch in with their take.

@Joshe no thanks

Maybe the bridge was rebuilt

@integral Gotcha - it only has a snapshot contextually. With more data it might be different. Which rolls back to the narcissism armchair therapist talking point...

@integral This is really cool ! What are the colours pertaining too?

Oh! I get it. I didn't think you were married to your opinion, so my bad for assuming. I went down a line of enquiry to figure out under what circumstances you thought Leo might be able to change given your behaviour/fixed personality statements. I didn't realise the conclusion wasn't up for debate, even if I could decifer under what conditions change of personality is possible in your worldview

There are many missing data points, not the least of which is how Leo conducts himself in real life. Which is a larger data range than online posts in a microcosm. It would be a flaw to disregard real life data. I still think a reasonable inference can be made with what we have online.

Itt : agism Don't you know this is a tend in the internet these days? 😃

I'm naturally very hesitate to use that label - I don't want to be an armchair psychologist (unless someone asks my opinion). At most I would claim someone fits a pattern. I think many people are overconfident in their understanding of pathologies and how they qualify for a diagnosis. On the internet at large. Reddit is so bad in particular.