Natasha Tori Maru

Okay clearly this isn't going anywhere.

This appears to me to be a non sequitur. My point isn't that you were required to stop because the other person asked you to. I am asking whether escalating an interaction remains justified once you've recognized that it has become adversarial and unproductive. Saying "he doubled down and I tripled down" explains the escalation, but doesn't answer that question. Are you evading?

You don't need to totally back down - just stop with inferences about people's psychological state when they tell you to stop. We shouldn't insult. We should try to engage in rhetoric free of condescension. You are explaining a possible mechanism. None of this justifies continually causing offense in an attempt to win an argument. Is continuing appropriate when the negative outcome is apparent and the continuation seems to be serving the participant rather than producing anything constructive? My interpretation is you are evading the wider ethical points I am raising.

The thing is, the trap more commonly fallen into on these forums tends to be explanation = understanding. Explanation is NOT understanding!!

@LordFall But the overall effect of dialogues like this can just be... offence - do you think it is the right thing to do when the effect is a negative outcome like this for the recipient? It isn't hard to detect this in debate, and then halt. It might be worth questioning why we continue - just to serve ourselves?

@LordFall reframe it like this; if we bring our own armchair-psychology character judgements into discussions, without relating to the person through questioning their meaning, experience, feelings and thoughts, we end up polarising them against us. They won't feel seen. They will feel mischaracterised and misunderstood. Most people will close themselves off to any further good faith discussion because you make judgements based on inference. This feels unjust and unfair to the recipient. What we should have done is just ask for further clarification. Sometimes it's as simple as that. No "shadow" stuff. No insecurity. No childhood trauma. Just inability to make the person feel understood. If someone doesn't feel seen, it's going to be very difficult to change their mind. We can't just sledgehammer everyone with logic (not saying you do, but if we really, earnestly want to engage with someone, pissing them off via the mechanism outlined above really isn't an effective mode of debate). People willfully ignore whatever truth we bring when they feel misunderstood / mischaracterised. And even if they do admit the truth, they certainly won't admit out loud to us.

@Yimpa thanks Yimpa - you're an inspiration to me as well. It takes a deep amount of personal integrity, courage and authenticity to stand up and say "this is who I am!" And risk rejection. Most people have shaky boundaries because you risk someone rejecting you. And they wont risk being alone. But the cost is having to live outside our truth So important to know what we will accept and what we won't ❤️

This thread is turning into a shit fight. Stop attaching each other's character and name-calling. Please don't make psychological assessments about each other. Debate the topic.

Someone can have poor intellectual behaviour in an argument without it necessarily be true that they have weak character as a human being. It's only reasonable to infer that when it is a consistent pattern. I've not seen that from Gengar.

I made it too easy 🥹 The top (what the hell animal is that!?) one looks like its taken a turn inside a lawn mower.

Double shampoo is needed when you have hard water. If you haven't had long hair and lived with hard water, you won't need to do this. But just try one shampoo with long hair + hard water. The gradual residue buildup is insane. This is without using any products. Just from the shitty water. And hard water is something you can encounter even in gentrified areas. So while double shampoo is required as a solution for these circumstances - people who blindly follow this are conformist. So a bit of column A, a bit of column B 😃

Can I ask - why do you think you selected the possibility that there was some sort of intellectual cap, over all the other possibilities that another user might not relate to the clip you linked? "you didn't relate, therefore you lack the intelligence to understand it" - that is quite a large causal jump. Other possibilities behind someone not relating: - different life experience - different interest - different values - different personality - different cognitive style - different background knowledge - different cultural background - different emotional state - poor presentation - poor communication from the creator - different taste - different circumstances - lack of personal relevance - opposing conclusions - content is genuinely weak

Makes it hard with older women who have had bad experiences. In the one hand they can be more mature and on your level. But then they can miss or crush their natural feminine joy of "being" in all the silly conditioning. Which is what younger women can naturally have. And men tend to crave. Life serving up bags of dicks. Your lucky girl will come along. I don't see you as someone to sit still for long 😁

She had lots of resentment? I dunno when I judge others I tend to be just blocking or avoiding my own shit. So if I sat here and judged you as a dickhead (I dont lol), I would actually just be trying to attempt not to feel hurt or dissappointed. Instead of just feeling hurt/dissappointed and letting it go so I can be happy again. Judging gets you stuck with the feeling repeating it over and over. Just let the real feeling out and be done! That's not to say I don't discern when there is wrongdoing. I just try to drop that moralising judgement. My sister judges endlessly and won't let anything go. Maddening. Like we talking shit from 15 years ago. My god

I agree. Even looking at contextual dynamics - all of it could be explained by "I just want to fuck" lol. Literally as simple as that. Ideally it should be just stories. Hopefully well told ones 😊 maybe trying to preserve a bit of honour... But then preferences come into it. Can logic prefences. It's just what gets you off 😅