Natasha Tori Maru

Yes. Misandry. It often gets smuggled into the feminism rhetoric.

It definitely doesn't intentionally teach it. Or guarantee it. Not at all. But the movement did act to give women agency - which freed them to select. That in no way guarantees the selection is of higher quality or better. It does push women to evaluate mens behaviour. But because feminism isnt intended as a female dating strategy, there isn't a guarantee women would learn from it in the way described.

@ElvisN no low quality posts like that, thanks. Inappropriate.

Too much truth for some people 😃

Depends. Did I complete my assigned tasks, to be so rewarded with this confectionery?

My sister is like that 😬 Sorry for semi-derailing there. You provoked some insights for me. And reframes. Cheers for the tag !

Forgot to add to my points above this sort of dovetails with feminism. Some men's negative reaction to feminism may be (partly) explained by feminism changing women's mate-selection in ways that reduce mens control. It increases women's selectivity/sorting/screening through increased agency and make men's behaviour more subject to evaluation. The mechanisms behind feminism act to empower/teach women to screen more effectively, but as a byproduct.

I think ultimately with game/pickup everyone eventually moves on from dedicated, concerted practice due to it becoming (ideally) naturally incorporated into their habits and reflexes. I just view it in the most charitable way as men learning confidence through technique (there is more to it, I am simplifying heavily). That's not to say there aren't crude and exploitative forms of pickup. I don't view it as cringe. In general mens challenges are access and attraction generation; women's are screening, filtering and relationship calibration. This is just in general, as the more high value one is, these challenges can flip and change. Pickup is a structured method to teach the tools for attraction generation and access. Men use these tools. It is transparent. You can learn this also with social circle game. Women also need to learn screening and selection. But because women have access to different tools, how they learn to screen can be different. Therapy can be a way women learn screening, and we don't shitcan that - despite it addressing their challenges (and it isn't marketed as such, but it could viewed as addressing this issue). There are also mate selection training courses, books and coaches for women. There is a legitimate gap in the market here to assist women to select/screen better. Women in general have larger social reach than men, so they essentially have the opportunity to learn via social circle, just like men. This would be an intuitive learning. At the very highest level, both sexes are sort of heading toward "Can I perceive another human being, with accuracy, without projecting my fantasies, fears, desires and stereotypes onto them?" You can also break it down into symmetries for both sexes (again this is in general and can flip with high value mates): Men - Approaching women, Women - Recognising and allowing access to good men Men Creating attraction, Women - Evaluating attraction, not confusing it with compatibility Men - Flirting/charisma, Women - Reading men's intentions, character, social behaviour Men - Handling rejection, Women - Handling abundance without becoming indiscriminately cynical Men - Escalating, Women - Setting boundaries and observing how he responds Men - Getting dates, Women - Filtering dates efficiently Men - Game, Women - Discernment Men - Avoiding the friendzone, Women - Avoiding the manipulator/player Men - Learning female psychology, Women - Learning male psychology Men - Screening for attraction, Women - Screening for character, stability, compatibility I suppose I am attempting to reframe pickup and flesh out a female equivalent here! And just as pickup can give women the ick, I can perceive how the above dating points/advice/training for women can give men the ick also. Imagine a female dating course taking into account the above points - it could sound viscerally gross to men! Some men do not learn well how to attract and get access to women via social circle, so game provides a structural frame to apply. Some women do not learn to filter and select well through social circle also. They might end up in therapy which can, although not it's primary mechanism, assist here. Women are probably less likely to reach out for a structured training method to select, though.

Everyone makes mistakes, no stress! I have so many disasters going on in life, unless someone has lost a limb or has a terminal diagnosis I'm just gonna let it go. Plus you just got through a heavy breakup. Sounds like the sort of a sort of breakup where you attracted something so intense it broke your previous relationship patterns? We can play out a pattern in romantic relationships until it calls something into our experience that is so intense, we cannot ignore it. Breaking it. Just speculation peiced together from your posts. It's hard not to get paradigm locked after those sorts of experiences. I only have charitable and happy feelings when in dialogue with you 😀

@Inliytened1 mad at you???

It's the nature of my work and the spaces I frequent. City centres, medical facilities etc. I am engaged in the social realm a lot. Some of these approaches maybe aren't it though, as some guys are just wanting to chat. It's just that... Well. I know men. Sometimes they aren't overt - but they wouldn't say no if the opportunity arose. One day I won't even get a glance from dudes. And that's cool. That's life! I don't put much value in how I look, because I didn't earn it. I just got some good rng genetics. I approach men too. I am pretty direct for a woman. I also get approached my women on occasion.

I choose to answer this from the frame I am being "cold approached" as opposed to some sort of courtship attraction phase - like a dude is shooting his shot I just like humor and wit, initially. If someone can make me personally laugh, they need to have some sort of sharp intellect generally. I use humor as a proxy for a sharp mind. I won't date someone who cannot keep up with me. So if a dude approaches me and is able to induce laughter from me it's a big win! Don't bring me your ego or arrogance. Confidence I am cool with. You will transmit these sorts of things subconsciously through body language, movement, tone, intonation and facial expressions - women will generally respond to these signals first. Other than that, I am not the sort of women to be irritated by being approached. I don't treat men who approach me as some sort of inconvenience or disturbance. They are just a human seeking connection. Often, I'll reject an approach and give them some of my honest feedback - mostly that I admire the testicle, haha (especially when a guy is visibly nervous). However, I get a body language, tone and expression read very quickly. I won't give a compliment to an egotistical dickhead who has an attitude like he is Gods gift to women. I'll just turn him down, dismiss and move on. I still get approached daily. Younger dudes and older. I have the sort of face and appearance that seems to project approachability. There must also be something in the way I hold myself or dress, because I can count maybe 2 or 3 times in my life I was objectified to the extent it was offensive. I won't always be approached like this - I am 40 now. Soon it will end! Or maybe not, who knows.

Did Carl step down or was he demoted?

@Monster Energy it might be something you notice when there is some distance from the immediacy of reaction. I stand by my words. I am perfectly fine expressing my opinion and that I agree with Carl ⚡ You need to seperate me from the moderator.