Natasha Tori Maru

Insisting our view is the correct one, putting others down when they do not align. Pretending this is done for others own good. That there is virtue behind the actions. To teach. Leo does this. And so are others in this thread. Interesting.

@AtmanIsBrahman you are just repeating a claim. Can you please support it? How are you personally seeing that people weren't analysing each part of the face 40 years ago? Can you please supply some research, or historical timelines for the development behind looksmaxing? Do you realise 40 years ago was 1986? Photoshop and it's effects have been replicated with cosmetics for a long, long time. Millenia timescales. Can you show me some data that reports all men agree to the same nose being attractive, the same face dimensions, the same geometry? How do you explain beauty preferences that differ across culture and the data available there? Can you show me data that confirms all people agree that certain celebrities are attractive? That would substantiate "objective" a bit more. Repeating statements isn't building as case.

@AtmanIsBrahman Beauty is not so rigid as to be objective. Can you show me some historical data and links to support none of this existed prior to you encountering it as trend? Can you tell me where the basis for these rules came from? Can you tell me how long they existed for, prior to adoption to faces? Can you give me some evidence to support that others didn't use any of these concepts previously? If you could also share how you came to the conclusion these principles made for 'better aesthetics'? How did you get there from the principles? How exactly do these principles enhance appearance? What elements of beauty are they engaging? How are you deciding what looks better? Who is deciding this? How does this system account for subjective preference?

Tell me your thoughts - most welcome. @Jirh How so you operate in the world, in terms of agency? I view myself as simply taking action when the highest probability for a certain outcome arises, to possibly affect a desirable outcome. I move as if I have no ultimate control, and I am at the mercy of any possibility that may arise. I aim to accumulate the wisdom to know when to act, and this is all. Lower stress because there isn't an attachment to outcome. Surprise when things go my way. But to conceptualise cause is my own inference, and that 'happenings' just occur. WHAT. I realise all I have been doing is noticing sequences, patterns and trends/regularity/frequency. And acting based on my accumulated feedback from experience in reality. I don't want to think about it too much because I feel as if it is just... MAGIC. Everything just. HAPPENS.

@LordFall You have a solid amount of life experience and attending to what is relevant and highest priority - so this naturally means you have the wisdom to know when to stop, when to pivot and reallocate resources and when diminishing returns take effect. When we reach this stage of development - these ingrained good habits become so natural to us, it can appear to be simple & intuitive. But when you take the lid off and approach from a less experienced persons mindset - there are many aspects to consider that mean that one size doesn't fit all. And peril can be close without critical thinking. Really questioning and critically analysing a method or concept helps others find where they personally align with a subject. tl;dr Expertise / experience often squishes complexity down into intuition. But that intuition is built on countless judgments, mistakes, and refinements that newer people haven't yet learned and internalized. Critical analysis helps fill the gap, rather than simply asking others to trust the conclusion. And taking on some conclusion without thinking is one of the largest pitfalls in modern society.

Is it straight forward? How far do you take this? Does everyone need to value this? Where are diminishing returns taking affect? How does substance work into this? How do you know your potential? What markers indicate when you cap potential? What are the limits to just appearance having an effect on reality? Does this affect anything other than base impression and treatment? How do you qualify it's direct, causative affect on outcome? What does it affect? How long for? What is this doing psychologically, if potential is limitless? When does seeking become anxiety? How do you know when to stop? How do you determine how much effort to put in? How much resources should go to this endeavour? I can think of more. So, is it straightforward? Love the process. Not the outcome. Otherwise it's an endless desire loop that can breed dissatisfaction with the now. With being.

@Jodistrict appreciated 💫🙏🏻

I do shit (shit#1) - then shit (shit#2) occurs afterwards. Shit#1 and Shit#2 appear to be associated. But in reality, all I can say is one shit is happening then another. I am making a connection between the two shits - via inference - up in my head? I got to this based on determinism / free will and reviewing this thread: Confused with free will I don't think I can say anything else other than "I observe some pattern of shit, some regularities of said shit, and some sequences of shit" Correct me if I am wrong - but I am making this connection up?

@Sugarcoat right, so then I riffed off your point 😃

Armchair psychology.

Ever noticed that once you are aware of something, when you care less about it - you get better at it? The concept of "maxing" is the flaw. An endless striving loop. Awareness is all you need, but giving too many fucks is going to trap you in an anxious loop from hell. Not to mention, no one is attending to what @Sugarcoat raised: by telling yourself you need to become or be or do something to get "it" (whatever it may be, in this case, being good looking) - you are actually reinforcing you are not it. Not good looking, need to be. It's no secret looks matter. But maximizing? Endless striving? "Maxing" is the issue. It's a warning this can slide into bad things. Not for all. Not always. Be be aware. Looks optimising. Cool. Watch attachment to the material. It's the human fallacy of "more is better" that can be smuggled into the concept. I say, watch out for that!

@LordFall Women have engaged in looksmaxing for millenia. It's a substantial part of their interactions with each other. And consumer culture. My point is - this isn't new. It's not revolutionary. The majority of people don't "avoid talking about it"

Let's take it seriously!! https://youtu.be/WLsHZznqrMY?si=_ZNuG_SCWz1oKPs6

E X A C T L Y excellent lesson, glad to be of assistance 😃

@AtmanIsBrahman I am saying it genuinely appears you are assuming others don't know looks effect how others perceive you. Do you think emphasising this is for the good? What could it be achieving that is negative? What positive? What do you think are long term issues?