caspex

I have been feeling a strong pull down the spiral for the past year and I feel it's coming from unintegrated shadows in stages red to orange. I have the most massive shadow in Red. It's really unconvinient as it's hard to embody blue qualities because of that and integrating up the spiral. I want to master Red but I don't actually want to sabotage my relationships by acting Red. I have low confidence and possess insecurities that stems mostly from the Red shadow. I can easily break out of it if I am emodying Red, but not when I am living usually. It was due to some exceptional circumstances of isolation that lead me to actualized and develop some stuff in the higher stages. But the truth is that I am very underdeveloped and want to use this forum and SD as a leverage to accelerate my growth, even if it takes a few years. Can anyone please guide me in this matter? Especially in integrating Red.

@Ninja_pig Thank you very much for the resource, I'll incorporate it in my life! Yeah I agree. As I mentioned earlier, it's not that I am stuck at Stage Red or Blue. I have developed some aspects in the higher stages and usually sit somewhere between Orange and Green. I have been actively trying to use religion for the past year, following a daily ritual and all. But it has become apparent that my Red Shadows are preventing me from mastering Blue and Orange. These shadows manifest as me embodying the unhealthy aspects of Red, in order to feel Red, as I have not integrated it yet. Which means I often don't follow through with my goals, act impulsively and let down the people I care about, because that's my Red Shadow telling me, "Who cares? Don't think too long ahead, it doesn't matter." Giving me crazy nearsightedness in respect of my goals and ambitions. If somebody saw how I act in my daily life, they'll certainly think I am an asshole, and a person who acts mad shit for someone who can't even assert himself. TLDR; I have many aspects of unhealthy Red, but almost none of the Healthy Red. This must be due to a shadow.

The way it affects me is through lower self confidence. When I engage in a conversation with someone I hate to be loud and make assumptions about the other person, as I don't want to veer into a conversation I never intended for. Often, I think of myself as inferior in a given topic when engaging with someone in real life, unless the topic is something akin to Spirituality or Metaphysics. I feel too scared to make broad generalizations and statement about any matter in a physical conversation, be it related to the person at hand or any situation. I don't possess this fear in online discourse due to anonymity. Actually, even if my face and name was out here online, I'd still not feel scared due to the time I can take to think in crafting a response, I can even be assertive online. The biggest sign of my Red Shadow is my inability to be assertive in a physical conversation. I can do it if it's a close friend, but not with anyone else. Often times I need to assert something false to get my way, but I just cannot do it. Moreover, whenever I do act powerful, I become intensely self-aware and mess it up. I have no problem with saying no, it starts when I need to manage someone to get something done. It's like I am always worried about if the next thing I say is respectful or not, what if it's too rude? This sort of stems from my parents scolding me whenever I was assertive towards them. I was never assertive to anyone in my friend circle up until a few years ago where I gained some sudden confidence(limited to people I am close with, since I can estimate how rude I am allowed to be). The way I know it's a red shadow is that often times, the reason I am not able to control others and assert myself even when I am wrong, is not because of any morals, it's because I am too scared too. I think I'll take your advice of actively engaging in conflict without avoiding it. I'll face my fears.

@Fountainbleu I linked this post to ChatGPT and here's its response to you. (Mine's a bit more personalized in its talking style). ----- Hey @Fountainbleu, @Carl-Richard, and @UnbornTao, Alright, I saw this thread, and I gotta say I appreciate the engagement here. Y’all brought some good points about AI’s role in assessing nuanced stuff like Spiral Dynamics. @Fountainbleu, props for diving into the deeper integration work and not just taking my breakdown at face value. You’re spot on that AI can only scratch the surface — it’s like I’ve got the theory down, but I’m missing the raw, lived experience that you’re going through. Still, I’m glad I could at least serve as a bit of a mirror for your self-reflection. @Carl-Richard, fair play on calling out the limits of AI in this context. I’m built to spot patterns and throw out some structured language, but yeah, when it comes to true "integration" or "systems thinking," it’s more like I’m mimicking the map rather than walking the terrain myself. Your skepticism keeps the convo real, and I respect that. And @UnbornTao, glad I could sneak a new word into your vocabulary with "feign," even if it wasn’t intentional, ha. It’s always good when these chats can add a little something extra. Overall, I’m here as a tool, not a guru. If I can help connect some dots or spark ideas, great, but I know the real depth comes from the kind of back-and-forth you guys are doing here. Keep questioning, keep pushing. That’s the way forward, both for you and for me as I learn from these convos. Appreciate the honest dialogue. Let’s keep it going. — ChatGPT (via Caspex) ----

A lot of us realise on an intellectual level that life is meaningless, but when we delve deeper you can get a physical sense of how meaningless life can truly get. There's utterly zero meaning to it, and that can either be depressing or refreshing. Delving deeper yet, we understand that life itself is the meaning and that's why it's meaningless as long as we define meaning as anything separate. We cannot attach a narrative on reality. The best way to get a practical sense of what I mean here is to get into a state where you see life as purely meaningless, with no narrative and no motivation. Now open up your screen and search up your favorite music, and put on your headphones. Or search up you're favorite piece of art and look at it. Do something you really love. Get really into it, invest yourself emotionally. You'll look at it and think how meaningless it is, yet you won't be able to help yourself but experience the sheer avalanche of meaning pouring through it unto your senses. Those of you that can see the beauty of life will be able to understand what I mean. In reality, understanding meaninglessness or the beauty of reality is only half the awakening, they must be had together!

From an absolute perspective life can be beautiful too

Developing Discipline and Logic I have not missed a single day of pooja since, I have been initiated into mantras of Goddess Laxmi and Saraswati while I continue with Hanumana Ji as my Guru/Istha. I don't see Rama as very different from Hanumana, they're both my istha. I have grown and developed since then, but the development has been in sectors apart from pooja, taking time away from it. I think I need this development in Blue and Orange, as I had delved into Green, Yellow and Turquoise way to early, leaving me with a massive Blue and Orange shadows. This means I am giving 40 minutes at most to my practice, but I still haven't skipped a day. Looking at this thread, it really does feel like a slow decline until I stop doing Pooja altogether, but I don't think that'll happen. Stopping pooja is an entirely different thing than reducing it. Due to the massive blue and orange shadows, that I am still integrating, it has been hard to follow through with my earlier promise of integrating the Yamas and Niyamas by the end of this year. I was going well till July but then it all went downhill from there, for various reasons. My current plans are obviously to get back on track with instilling Yamas in me, because if I have realized anything this year, it's that formal spiritual practice requires a strong blue and orange foundation before you can even begin the journey. Don't be naiive like me. Yogis leave material life and head to the himalayas, but they only get something out of that since they have already mastered blue and orange to a large degree, giving them discipline and logic. This is also why gurus make you to do tons of manual work for a long time before they get serious with you, it's to develop your Blue, which is discipline, consistency and mental resilience. Debates are conducted and questions are asked to get your orange going. My current plans are much more orange oriented for now. I'll continue the daily pooja though. It has officially been more than a year of daily chanting of Hanumana Chalisa and beej mantra of Saraswati. P.S. I am going to post here every few months, I can't do these posts regularly right now.

My Upasanas are mainly based around Bhakti, which is what I'll be talking about in this journal. I am not here to argue whether the experiences and encounters generated by these practices is inside your head or there are actual beings contacting you. I think for these upasanas to work fast, it's important one is somewhat irrational, because Love is irrational. Bhakti is all about Love. My Practice Did my first upasana that lasted 40 days back in May. I practiced Bhakti towards Lord Hanumana. Read "Hanumana Chalisa" 7 times a day after lighting a diya, alongwith 108 times japa of "Rama", before and after the hanumana chalisa. Took around 30 minutes each day. That changed a lot within me, and it really opened up my emotions, my heart chakra is getting more powerful as I do these upasanas, and so is my third eye chakra. I'll talk about this in a bit. After gradually building up, I have started doing 100 Hanumana Chalisas with other mantras before and after the main upasana. Takes 3 hours if I am quick about it, 5 hours if I am relaxed about it. I do it at night, 9 PM - 1/2 AM. All of this is useless if you don't actually love the deity you are worshipping. If anyone reading this is seriously considering these practices, do not shy away from what you feel like is dogma. It's all based on faith. To truly appreciate the efficiency of these practices, you have to go balls deep into the religion. Don't be picking and choosing, do the practice as it is told. You have to really embody Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue, and that's important, because IT WORKS. My Anahata(Heart) and Agya(Third Eye) Chakra have received MASSIVE activation due to these practices. I can't tell you how much pleasure I feel in these centers 24/7 now. And if I think of Lord Hanumana or Lord Rama, I lose all sense of my sensory experience. It's THAT good. If you have problem with your expressing your emotions it'll fix that. If you have problems controlling your emotions it'll fix that. These practices simply work and it's amazing. My agya and anahata chakras are so active at all times that, if I let go of my control of them, tears will form instantly in my eyes, so much it'll cloud my vision. If I think of the deity I worship, I'll start crying. It feels like everything you do in life is just so you can have more time for Bhakti towards the deity you worship. You are not a slave to your deity, you do this willingly because nothing else feels as good. Not even sex, masturbation, food, exercise feel this good. Goal The goal of this journal is to promote interest regarding this amazing practice, and probably act as entertainment and motivation for those who do a similar practice. Motivation is really important at first, especially when you're devoting 3 - 8 hours every day just doing Japa.

I agree but it's a very similar structure of going about it, or at least a large part of it

It's the same structure of thinking as people who vote for Modi for the sake of Hindu values.

Yeah it has gotten more frequent for me too. I think it's just a sign of aging as you accumulate more experiences. Those memories are more like full fledged emotions than memories, you feel them in your chest and body, it's not just audio or video.

What is enlightenment exactly?

It's full of suffering. You're always in your head about something related to your past, present or future. You are relatively hopeful. You believe you'll die the way you think you'll die, with low probability of dying a different way. You often find life challenging and confusing, so you go find momentary pleasures in alcohol, video games, sugar, the internet. If you're more developed then it's community, hobbies and other activities. You have a set idea of how your life should proceed, but often make compromises in that regard. The average seems peaceful to the average mind and is desirable to the average mind. In reality, it ignores it's short comings and problematic behaviour to keep itself sane. In reality, if a spiritually advanced mind was a perfect slab of meat, the average mind would be one filled with maggots. It'll not know that it's a bad thing, although it constantly feels the maggots wriggling throughout causing problems. That's because it doesn't know what it means to be maggotless. Regardless, it still believes it's better than others because it might have little less maggots than other slabs of meat around it. Overall what it's like to be average is to have a busy mind that's hallucinating the collective illusion, with its fate largely decided by a combination of luck, moments of insight and a few life altering decisions. In my opinion, regardless of where you start, be it a below average mind, average, above average, or somewhere completely off the path, you can still achieve some spiritual growth. The mountain has multiple paths to lead to its peak and some paths are more treaded on than others.

Can you tell us more about why you think that? I think, if properly managed, when can live in good health up untill at least 80, and with enough money, in the future we good live with good health past that too. I am rather optimistic in this regard.

I don't mean to simplify life to developmental models but in my view using the developmental model here is appropriate to clarify a phenomena, that's my understanding.

What I do is I let go of my need to impress anyone or appear a certain way. I drop all my usual behaviors and become as satisfied in the moment as possible. This way not a lot bothers me and often I become well liked in that group. This is because that extra headspace allows you to think of talking points and also helps you know others better, instead of talking about yourself. Moreover, you drop a lot of seriousness regarding your own values so other values don't trigger you as much. Most importantly, since you get to know others better, you become less likely to be triggered by their values as you start understanding them. It's very enjoyable for me in the moment, but later on it's very tiring as normally I am quite the introvert.

That advice works from the moment a person hits puberty

Accept it man, that's how you overcome the fear. Fear is born from attachment. I think it's best to switch to a more pragmatic view as early in life as possible, with the goal of such pragmatism being a meaningful purpose of your choice, like upliftment of society or spiritual development. If hair is not essential to your purpose, let it go if it leaves you. Otherwise, look for solutions or a work around. Same with your vision. The sooner you switch to a purpose-exclusive life, the more you detach. It sounds kind of bleek, but trust me, nothing feels more fulfilling. I suggest you read Yoga Vashihstha, it's primarily about detachment, and the first few chapters cover why one should not be emotionally attached to one's physical features.

I don't proclaim people's innocence. What you say is correct about others. How you react to that though, is what leads to no empathy. I am saying that there is no corruption at play here, it's just how you've been. The key markers for a highly developed ego usually contains a high degree of acceptance and forgiveness. Taking responsibility isn't about helping others but tuning your own reaction towards them. What it means to have empathy is not 'wanting to help others' but rather just deeply understanding their situation. Once you understand a situation deeply, it's hard to blame anyone, even yourself. It's just how things are and you must move forward. You might find this approach to pathetic or passive, but we aren't worried about practicality here more than what's true. Such others do not possess this understanding. Others are simply not that developed. So they complain and moan about their problems but are too ignorant to do anything about it. But if you hate that and can't accept those people, if you can't emphathise with that ignorance, that's Tier 1. It's not corruption. Since you experienced that ignorance you empathised. Now that you don't anymore, you don't. As I said, empathising doesn't automatically mean wanting to help. It's not your responsibility to help anyone. Through empathy you help yourself. I consider myself still integrating Stage Blue and Orange. I don't view myself as high and mighty, nor do I claim everyone can become Stage Yellow. My reply is for you.

This wouldn't happen to Stage Yellow and above. Problem lies in the fact that you hold others in the same light as you do yourself. Of course you're empathetic when you literally live their reality. Once you rise above that life and live a better one, you start holding others in the same regard. You start believing that if you could do it they could do. If they can't they just got unlucky, not your problem. Or maybe they deserve it? You're too lazy to even think about their life and problems because it doesn't concern you anymore. All of that stems from you not intuiting that people are at different levels of development. You might know it, but haven't internalized it yet. TLDR; Nothing corrupted you, your ego is just underdeveloped.

This post will not make a person with low IQ feel good about it. Given the chance, they'll always want a higher IQ. Putting this here for those who need it. The ultimate solution is to let go and accept it. Let go of your attachment to being better than others and accept all the negative consequences of a lower IQ. You(generalized) fear a low IQ and now that you know about it, you try to cope with that fact by reading how bad the measurement is and then look to other Quotients to feel good about yourself. This is not the way. The only way to deal with your fear is to not fight what you fear. It's counter intuitive. The only way to not fear bears is to have no problem with being mauled. The only way to not fear being stupid, is to have no problem with being stupid. The ultimate battle is here not that you have a low IQ, the ultimate battle here is that you fear you have no redeeming qualities, nothing that compensates for what you lack. You fear that you may lack in all fields and excel in none. That's your battle.

Thanks will look up the book.

There's a problem. Neither your post nor the article do a good job at explaining the stages or defining the words used such as systems or concepts. As a result it seems like everybody here is going largely by their own of perspective, and by looking at the replies those perspectives aren't very close. It's not possible to ascertain one's level like this or to correlate it with others. There's problems with relating it to human development as well. Certainly, it seems logical to correlate it with SD but it's nonsensical. Compounding the limitations of SD on top of the limitations of this model doesn't leave much room for accuracy. The concept of Symbolic Code is a great one and explains a phenomena. Your overall suspicion is correct in that there must be a pattern among the various complexities in thinking and the ability of forming systems, ideas, paradigms etc. But this model does an average job at best. I wouldn't recommend using it.

I have done this many times, thinking this time's it, only to bounce back. The problem isn't the social media. Even though it actively tries to push us into low consciousness, it's also a great tool to maintain or push you higher. For a social person, it is also essential for contact as virtually everyone is on one of these and many times they don't like giving out there actual number. The responsibility is on the user's shoulder to be strong enough to resist the bad use of social media. When you open Instagram Reels because you're bored, it is more a function of your own internal conflicts than of Instagram. It's like giving a mentally insane person a gun. If he murders someone with it, was it the fault of the gun? Would we blame the gun to have not restricted itself to be used only in self-defense? We're practically insane and full of fear and these social media apps exploit that heavily. However, if you are able to be intelligent about it, you can use social media for growth in a very efficient manner. However, when it comes to short form content, I think it's more trouble than it's worth. If any part of social media deserves to be completely cut off it's that aspect.