AtmoShark

This is actually a solid response. 100% agree

YOU put the idea in YOUR OWN HEAD that this is what the "PUA community", as you crudely describe it as, says. Modern day dating advice (which is what the "PUA community" turned into) does not say this at all, except in advertising copy in order to be able to communicate with the average person who is frustrated by the perceived notion that it's only "assholes" that attract women. Lovely heap of bullshit here. Apparently any man who has the confidence to approach a woman is an "asshole". So I suppose that all of our male ancestors are assholes now. I suppose walking up to a woman and introducing myself makes me an "asshole". And now you appear to be sending the message that NOT approaching a woman makes you a "good guy". So now you're offering this absolute SHIT advice to an impressionable young man that it's BAD to approach, and GOOD to not approach. Do you understand that this shit advice is going to result in men developing a distorted view of dating? Do you realize that because of this, men will be shamed for approaching women, and women will therefore have difficulty meeting awesome guys because of this? Also, do you realize that ALL men think about approaching women, but have fear of it because of people like yourself who would shame them for it? And then you wonder why "only assholes" do it? Learning how to approach women is an extremely difficult and challenging thing for men. The constant rejection forces the guys to reflect in on themselves and determine what it was about them that got them rejected, and then fix it. It's the ultimate ego breaker. Soon he develops confidence and an awareness of what women respond to, and that makes him an... asshole? There is no persuasion. There is just having the inadequacies of yourself being exposed until you fix them. It's almost like learning how to be successful with women can lead to a road of... self actualization. A kernel of truth right here. What she fails to understand is that men reflect on their rejection and their "red flags" and mitigate them. Your PERCEPTION of the "PUA community" is that you need to be an "asshole". Tell me, how many dating success programs tailored exclusively for men have you completed in order to have formulated this opinion? I already know the answer to this question due to your absolute sheer ignorance of the topic, but others need to hear it from you. It's very clear that you have no idea what dating success programs actually teach, and once again, you are offering very impressionable young men advice that is harmful. Stay in your lane.

You can essentially ignore the response from @Preety_India as she has a fundamental lack of understanding of this subject. Women do not reject men for having those traits because they are hard-wired to respond to them positively. Those traits are behavioral indicators of the man's fitness to help the woman survive and replicate in a very harsh environment that is not found in most modern societies (although society can easily regress back to that state very quickly). Although women respond to those traits, too much of some of those traits can also lead to rejection. Which is fair, because a man who is too assertive will not be able to navigate complex social structure. A man who is too dominant may alienate others from the group and elicit a coup/rebellion/get murdered. A man who is too arrogant will get ostracized from the group. Ruthless men will always run into another man who is more ruthless, as well as engage in behavior that will lead to being left out of the group or violently murdered. As you can see, those behaviors you mentioned carried to extremes will lead to negative outcomes. However, it is possible and an extremely good strategy to cultivate some of those characteristics in a manner that combines the best of what@Preety_India crudely describes as an "asshole", and combine them with the "nice guy" traits. As with everything, there is a balance that must be had.

Show me where I claim to be an authority on opinions. Show me where I decide who is right or wrong for the entire population.

Re-read the part about in my last post about an impressionable young man following bad advice and take a few moments to think about why that needs to be addressed. It's not all about me.

Thanks for telling me what to do, I really needed that. Apparently you make decisions for me now. My mind has bullshit boundaries and isn't just open for any idea to walk in and settle down. I truly don't care about your advice because I can recognize it for what it is: ineffective. What I do care about is some young man reading it, taking it to heart, and experiencing the absolute garbage results that it will manifest, which in turn frustrates both the man and any woman he may have created a solid relationship with had he been given proper advice from someone who knew what they were talking about.

Excellent. Truly looking forward to you continuing that behavior. The last thing we need is more clueless men taking your "advice" and enabling ineffective behaviors that frustrates both men and women.

Are you investing in bitcoin to speculate? Because there are significantly better investment vehicles that offer superior returns to bitcoin. I've noticed that most bitcoin fanatics are absolute idiots when it comes to actual finance and business.

That's great but you're still not helping the single men on here in the western dating culture progress to where they want to be in terms of success. Toxic or not, there is a way to navigate the western dating culture. At best your advice is useless, at worst it is counterproductive.

Re-read my first post, emphasis added: I'm having difficulty understanding how I agreed with your statement that added nuance and yet you continue to steamroll the conversation in a direction while putting words in my mouth.

I've read your posts and it seems like you really downplay the arranged marriages that occur in India that resembles cattle trade more than it does any kind of romantic experience. The man is regulated to being essentially objectified as a means to enrich the family of the bride with material goods, and emphasis on the man is to be a people-pleaser in order to gain approval from the brides family. Don't even think for a second that your "eastern dating culture" isn't toxic in its own manner. Tired of reading your self-righteous posts commenting on a dating culture that you consistently fail to offer actionable advice on.

I think you contributed some excellent nuance to what I am trying to say. One of the key things I'd like to emphasize is knowing the right questions to ask when operating from that framework of customer psychology and experience. Some questions are going to lead to frustration, and other questions that come from that framework are going to be able to have value extracted from them.

www.nofap.com www.yourbrainonporn.com /thread

Gentlemen, do not take advice from @Preety_India or any other woman about how to succeed with women, unless they are either dating coaches or have spent time actually understanding how to actually elicit attraction as a man, not how it theoretically is done. Same thing with women asking men for how to succeed with men; most men do not understand the dating game from a woman's point of view, and therefore will offer at best useless advice. It is like an advertiser asking a general consumer about what they should do for their next advertisement; the consumer does not consciously know what they actually respond to, and will unintentionally mislead the advertiser.

Being like a "gay drama queen" is not a good model to emulate as a masculine man. If she wants another pussy, she will just make friends with another girl or gay guy. What you just described is "dancing monkey syndrome". This behavior will certainly maintain her attention, but it will not elicit attraction. Not to mention that unpredictable behavior is not the deeply grounded masculine "rock" that naturally attracts women. I see so many men confuse attention from women as attraction from women, and this manifests in clown behavior like you just described, as well as things like blaring music from a car for attention, being obnoxious, driving loud vehicles, While the "James Bond" stereotype is also garbage, there is a fine line that must be struck between having fun ("gay drama queen") and being grounded in a MASCULINE way ("James Bond"). You can certainly have fun and explore a wide variety of emotions, but again, it needs to come from a rooted masculine core. Gay drama queens come from a more feminine rooted core.

I don't understand how you can possibly interpret the example of getting a coach as "academic learning". The rest of your post has a lot of fluffy buzzwords that aren't pragmatic or actionable. There's a degree of external action-taking that this forum tends to overlook because of the top-heavy focus on "inner game", and general mental masturbation about spiral dynamics and how it theoretically will translate to dating success. Tell me, how much actual success have you had IN THE FIELD? Because while you're not wrong on the back end, the front end of game (the action part) is going to be deficient if that's all you focus on. Your "transcendent-integrated state" is useless when you see a woman you're interested in in yoga class and experience the natural fear/hesitation that comes up when you approach her. It's useless when drunk dudes try to disrupt your interaction. It's useless in the chaos of the night when a fight breaks out and you need to lead your group out of there.

Love how you ignored my entire post and decided to whine about Tom Cruise, and when I gave you an anecdotal example of someone I personally knew, you don't want to look at it because it's forcing you to reflect on yourself. It seems you're more interested in complaining than you are about taking action; that explains why this thread is so long and boring. Good luck getting over your insecurity. Women are certainly turned off by you, but it's not your height doing it.

Did you even read my post? What I gave you was literally the key to your question. My post comes from FIELD EXPERIENCE, not sitting around theorizing. I've had shorter wingmen absolutely clean up because they had to develop charisma, confidence, and persistence to the point that girls are intrigued that someone their height acts in that manner. As a tall guy, it's EXPECTED that I act that way, and if I don't because I'm having a bad day, I immediately get blown off. Also why is it important for you to "get away with more shit" compared to a tall guy? "Getting away with shit" might be your biggest problem, not your height. Because I've tried to "get away with shit" in the past as well, and newsflash: my height was irrelevant when they decided they wanted me to leave. If you can't hide it, feature it: don't get those stupid ass shoe inserts. Own your current height. Come from a frame of "tall guys are awkward, lanky, and can't even stand up with proper posture." Do you think Tom Cruise isn't confident and charismatic at a relatively short 5'7"? If he was placed into a room where no one knew who he was, do you think he'd be standing around in lifted shoes obsessing over his height, or would he be charismatically working the room and sharing his radiance?

I'm a tall guy and my height doesn't really matter when it comes down to the actual interaction. I get rejected just the same if I do something stupid. The big difference is that as a tall guy there is an expectation for me to always be confident, so if I show even a crack of anxiety/nervousness (because fuck me for having human emotions, right?) its like their preconceived notion of me being this god is shattered. Whereas if a shorter man comes up confidently with charisma, the girl will think to herself "He's short, but he's so confident and charismatic. What else does he have going on under the surface? Is he wealthy? Good in bed?", whereas with a tall guy it's just assumed and therefore not much of a mystery.

A lot of pretentious, nonsensical nebulous answers here for someone asking for practical advice. I seriously wonder if some of you can simply respond with the actual time if someone asks you for it without you going into some esoteric rant about "there is no time, there is only the present, you [insert shoehorned Spiral Dynamics color here]". Whatever you're into, simply bring it up with your partner and see what overlaps you have. In my experience I've found it good to start vanilla, and then suss out what she's into. What I've done before is just whip out the toys or whatever without a lead up to it, and that ended up alarming the girl.

I hate these kinds of threads, where users like @Raze just plop down a video that's over an hour long on us and demand that we discuss it. No summary of the video, no timestamps or comments beyond a vague title. Do you honestly expect us to spend 8% of our waking hours today to review this video and say something intelligent about it? This leads to users like @Origins posting absolutely bizarre shit that isn't practical or relevant to the topic at hand. If you're a guy and you're interested in learning dating success, there are forums available out there that are full of people who are actualized and do not engage in the action these two dummies are. You might have to pay for some, and others are private and require invites.

Why waste time figuring it out on your own when you can just get a coach/advice/read books & forums/attend seminars/watch videos? You wouldn't try to fix a car by "figuring it out on your own". Just watch a video or read instructions and move on to other areas of your life.

It is men's masculine nature to initiate the mating interaction. Your inherent feminine nature does not resonate with that, and therefore you have extreme difficulty wrapping your mind around it. Men's nature is to penetrate, overcome, push through obstacles, improve themselves and their environment. I've been studying dating success (what you crudely call "pickup game") for over 12 years now. In order for a man to become successful in that area of life, he has to engage with life in a holistic way, and that's the large part of learning dating success that isn't quite apparent, especially to women. You initially start by approaching women; they reject you. Your thoughts, words, and actions are not where they need to be. You do some inner reflection, seek feedback, and continue practicing until you develop a personality that naturally attracts not only women, but people in general. You change your appearance in a positive manner, through better fashion, better nutrition, and better exercise habits. Your mindset changes from one of lack and scarcity, to one of abundance and sharing. Now you're starting to attract more women. But you've noticed that you need to gather more resources to pay for the newfound habits you've implemented that led to that success. You start to learn how to offer more value to the world, and then you are rewarded for that value through financial compensation (as well as intangible benefits from learning that valuable behavior). Now you can purchase better food, supplements, exercise equipment, etc. You continue to educate yourself, through reading books about a variety of topics (finance, philosophy, history, spirituality, health, dating, science, autobiographies, etc.), attending seminars, and socializing with other high-level men. Yes, you started this journey because you wanted to attract women. But you ended up getting on the path to self-actualization, and ended up at a different destination than you originally set out for. Does this sound low conscious or unhealthy to you, @Preety_India? Can you see why men who have been through this process may not respect your rather shallow opinion of the matter?