Karmadhi

The issue is taking land, not repelling an invasion Especially when the land theft is in the West Bank where there is no real existential threat nor October 7th attack It has been going on for many many years and it is done so slowly and carefully that you do not feel it until it is too late Boiled frog theory Also when you actually talk with people that are in favour or support this land grab, they usually use religion or God or the Bible as a reason for it As an atheist I cannot relate to this and hence am very critical. It seems like half the country is on board with this either directly or by voting for parties that are on board with this

I think half measures cause this A full measure would calm things down The only example they give is Gaza in 2005 but that was not a proper state, it was a half measure A full measure would be something similar to Kosovo or the states that emegered from the USSR after it collapsed I feel a proper Palestinian state would calm down the majority and the loud radical minority would either be eliminated from the internal pressure

I am sure if Palestine got a proper state and Lebanon got its land back, all sides would chill out and only the most radical elements would remain Which can be eliminated But most of the anger comes from lack of statehood Why is Israel so afraid of a Palestinian state? I am sure they can handle it in a war, the power difference is too big to worry

I am sure in the past they did. I am referring to now, today. No 5 Arab armies are attacking Israel, it is just Hamas that is too weak to seriously threaten Israel. Same with Hezbollah. The issue is that Israel is taking more and more land in the West Bank unopposed, and kicking out thousands of people That is the reality we are facing today You referr to reality of 1948 or 1967, but that is totally different today. Today basically we have an Israel state that is unhappy with 1967 borders but wants more land in what they call "Judea and Samaria" because they believe it is given to them by God They want more Hence greed. Nobody is seriously critizing Israel defending its 1948 or 1967 borders Issue is when you fight to get more land https://www.timesofisrael.com/over-2100-west-bank-settlement-housing-units-advance-in-planning-process/ This is what I mean

Because desire to exterminate is based on moral development, not technological or even political development You can be democratic and genocidal The Nazis were some of the most technologically advanced nations at the time, with strong burocratic institutions and had many poets, artists etc live at the time. Yet they were arguably more genocidal than some tribe in India Desire to genocide is linked to moral development Israel moral development is not higher than that of Palestine But their technological development, political etc is higher Or if the moral development is higher, they have a glitch level of racism that clouds their judgement If you de-humanize a group of people enough, they will start to be seen as something that even normal people would be fine with killing. Which is how you have Israelis being pro LGBT, pro animal rights etc yet for Palestinians they have genocidal views.

Why would an Israeli vote for Likud when October 7th happened under their watch is honestly beyond me..

1 side is trying to kill the other side for land and the other for survival Not the same situation This is not a typical war where 2 sides fight for resources or greed It is 1 side fighting for greed and 1 for survival Not to mention 90% of all human suffering has been on 1 side here That is why stage green peeps like me and raze get angry about it

To me Israel is mostly on the wrong here That is my understanding of it Not saying Palestine has 0 faults but on their side it is mostly stubborness and lack of realism than anything else You yourself have written long texts about how Israel has ethnically cleansed Palestine, manipulated western audiences into supporting them and that they are expansionist Even if I just go by what you have said it is enough to see the situation Your only legit criticism of Palestine as a whole entity I see is them being stubborn and wanting 1 state and all of that stuff which I wrote in my answer above You also criticised Hamas attacks but that is so common sense that it is bad I see no point to discuss it in detail

They illegally occupy it and terrorize it through settlers I said there are elements of Gazans that are Red and those are the ones you are talking about. I do not think they are a majority. The election was 20 years ago and basically everyone under 38 was not eligble to vote. That is like 60% or more of the population there. Therefore, I cannot take it into account. It is another generatation. If you did a poll of the current Gaza population that voted for Hamas it is probably less than 30% considering you also had almost half voting for the more moderate Fatah party which is stage blue imo.

What do you base that on? Or maybe we have different views of Stage Red To me Stage Red would be something like Mongols or the Internahwme during the Rwandan Genocide Basically a group of people that chop you into pieces, burn you alive for fun etc I do not see Gazans in general be like that For example Ben Gvir wanted to surround a prison for Palestinians with Crocodiles That is how a stage red mind thinks, it is gory, graphic, vulgar and flashy in violence A stage blue would be more like a bullet to the head type of killing. I am sure you have some which are very bloodthirsty in Gaza but I have not seen proof of the majority of the population being like that A few thousand celebrating out of 2.2 millions on dead Israeli bodis (which is awful) can be indeed stage red behaviour but I did not see most of Gaza do so Note: I am not saying most Isarelis are stage Red either, to me the center of gravity of that country is mostly Blue with some degrees of Orange and even Green. However their blueness is extremly toxic. Stage Blue can be very very bad, just because you are blue does not mean you are not genocidal psychopath Most Nazis were Blue "Also to say that Israel isn’t a democracy showing how delusional you are on this topic." To be fair I also include the West Bank there since there is the 2 tier legal system and illegal occupation and settlements If we talk about Israel proper I would call it a democracy (not liberal but democratic) However Israel goes beyond proper Israel so if I include those it is not democratic

If caring about human rights and international law is a bias then yes i am biased. To me those are more important than how technology advanced or democratic a society is (and israel is not a real democracy imo). To me if a country is genocidal or supports things like mass murder, ethnic cleansing or rape it is a not developed country regardless of what tech they use. humanity is most important thing when determining development If that makes me biased then ok

If I was not mindful I would not have asked you this "I am really curious to understand how you come to that conclusion. What constitutes development to you? Because to me it is linked mostly with moral development, not technological development" I was not being sarcastic, I was geniounly interested in understanding your perspective on it

I think Leo perfectly explained it on a previous post. Destiny is a just shameless pro American than believes TRUTH is being pro West and pro USA. He fails to see the devilry of USA and basically every entity that is pro West and pro USA is good Which is why he supports Ukraine and Israel which are totally incompatible in any paradigm except that of an American unconditional dick rider Or he is getting paid by Israel which someone here said that Norman Finklestein was confident of But I have not seen any proof of that personally. Adopting an entire worldview and pushing for it despite getting massive hate just because Hasan had it? Sounds a little extreme no? To be fair I am not informed on their relationships to make that assessment But it would be extremly childish to basically pick a side just because someone I dont like picked the other side

You realize how racist that sounds? (this one: " I think for him it's simple: Palestinian = backwards religious lunatics and terrorists. I think many people look at the issue as one of backwards Muslims vs civilized Israelis, and side with civilized Israelis ") "Israeli IS more developed than Palestine" I am really curious to understand how you come to that conclusion. What constitutes development to you? Because to me it is linked mostly with moral development, not technological development. "There is a xenophobic aspect to this as well. Muslims are just more alien to the West than Jews. Basically, people are simple-mindedly picking the less alien side." This is like 90% of the true reason, just good old racism and xenophobia and the medias are a huge factor of that They are still traumatized from 9/11 25 years after which clouds their judgement

Guys I have not been following this conflcit for weeks Can sometime give me a TL DR what is going on and what are peace chances?