Karmadhi

Hey guys, i wanted to ask this here. I am a natural introvert and even though i have managed to develop quite decent social skills and some extroverted tendencies i always felt like it being a limitation. I had to work super hard to try to match what an extrovert naturally has, and it felt like i had to work harder to develop "what you ought to have for a successful life". I mean what benefits do i get as an introvert compared to an extrovert? Extroverts have it much easier to make friends, get sex/relationships, get good jobs and climb on managerial positions which pay well, and overall tend to be more easy going. I come from a very extroverted culture which sees introversion as something bad. The word "introvert" is literally used sometimes to insult someone when they are being anti-social or cold. This bias really made me subconsciously dislike my introvert nature and feel like i always had to work extra hard to match an extrovert because they naturally have "what matters". So a list of things introverts have good going for them would be appreciated. The only thing i can think off is that introverts are better at introspecting which can allow them to grow themselves more than extroverts can, if they actually decide to. They are better at problem findings within themselves better. Anything else would be appreciated

I bascially have all of those but it is not enough. If only it was that easy...

@Leo Gura I asked because i noticed i get more girls just wanting to fuck me than wanting to date me and having feelings and crushes and shit. So in their mind i am just a cute guy so lets have his dick versus he is a great guy i want him to become my boyfriend and shit. I do not just want to fuck these girls and then they keeping me for sex or just leaving. I see sex as a gateway to love which is what i really want. I want a girl to be like "this guy is amaizing i want to be with him". How do i get that to happen versus "this guy i want his dick but thats it". Will a girl that just wanted to fuck you change her mind after sex and want to properly date you even though at first she did not want to? Is that possible? I ask because that is what i want, sex is of second order importance to me in ITSELF. I am weird i know

I have been told that a girl can fuck you but that is all she wants with you. So a girl either might want to properly date you or just might want your dick. The models you sleep with, do they just want your dick or do they want to properly date you? By properly date i mean you guys meeting again after the sex instead of it just being a casual thing.

I never understood, if game matters so MUCH MORE than looks for guys, then why most of the time (not always), you see guys of the same attractivness levels. So good looking girls with good looking guys and average girls with average guys (looks wise). Any explanations?

So, i have been reading the book "Attached" by Dr Amir Levine, which is about the 4 attachement styles. I have noticed that what often people, especially in the dating advice world, consider "non-needy" behaviour is quite similar to the avoidant style. Waiting days to respond to messages, playing games, trying not to look desperate etc. Meanwhile the secure attachment style tends to be more on the "good guy" category. So stuff like not playing games, being very straightforward, showing interest head on, being a good communicator, etc. A lot of the dating advice out there that i have seen seems to favour the detached avoidant player style over the secure one. The book even calls the secure style "boring" compared to the rest since it will not give high emotional and lows which females tend to be attracted to, in a very toxic way. Esepcailly the anxious ones. So will being an avoidant and so detached only work with anxious females? Is my interpretation wrong? Is this the case? I would really like some opinions on this.

I go to the gym regularly, i am very fit and muscular. It is not an issue of energy in the traditional sense per say. I do not suffer from fatigue or anything like that. It is more that i feel more comfortable to be low energy. By low energy i do not mean not making jokes, not smiling, not laughing or not being expressive. Just being chill.

You develop it through stuff like meditation, contemplation, self-inquiry, reading good books, maybe bit of psychadelics, opening your mind, emotioanl mastery. Stuff like these right?

I have worked immensly on it but no matter how much i work, it is never enough. Most people still see me as a chill, serious but cool and interesting person. It is never enough.

I really struggle with this, no matter how much i develop my sense of humour, how expressive i become, how much i laugh and smile, girls always tell me that they find me serious and quiet (but fun). God help me understand what the fuck a fun, serious person even means. I can make a girl laugh for 20 minutes straight and still she will think i am somewhat serious and quiet person. I think it because i am a low energy person and i feel punished for it.

IQ has nothing to do with wisdom. What is important to live a good life is wisdom, not IQ. Plus tbh even for the more shallow materialistic type of Orange success, EQ and social skills matter WAY MORE than IQ. I would say wisdom and EQ both outmatch IQ by a mile. Funny thing is that if your EQ and wisdom are well-developed, people will automatically assume you are smart. Happens to me all the time. I never took an IQ test and never plan to, however i think i might be slightly above average but nothing crazy (I scored around 1200 on the SAT). However, because my EQ and wisdom are well developed for someone my age (im 23), people automaically tell me stuff like you are smart etc. It is quite funny, almost like good marketing So yeah, do not worry about this bullshit. Focus on improving your social skills, meditate, read books and develop EQ. IQ obession fundamentally is caused by lazy people who do not want to do any work to improve and grow themselves because IQ is mostly set in stone and cannot be changed. Ironically usually Incels that obsesses about facial aesthetics also tend to focus about IQ a lot. Why? Because they have a deterministic attitude towards everything in life. Do not become such a person.

How is this related to females hating neediness though? Are avoidant men more attracted, at least short-term?

I have noticed that Leo always makes the assumption that we are going for proper hot girls (8/10 in looks or higher) and everything he says is quite correct in that case, especially if you are not a famous or super good looking guy (by default, most of us will not be). However, most guys do not really care about that. Leo says it himself that most guys, even his wings have quite low standards and at the same time assumes we are going for proper hot girls. Quite paradoxical imo. There is nothing wrong per say for wanting a proper hot girl nor is there anything wrong with being content with a decent looking girl. Just depends on personal goals. Just like there is nothing wrong with just wanting to be slightly muscular versus wanting to be on the top 10 percent physique wise. Imagine if you came up to me asking me how to be in good shape, and i tell you "you need to train 4 times per week for 10 years and eat a perfectly clean diet". Yes, if you want to look like a great god then yes. However i asked you how to be on decent shape, not how to be a greek god. Hope you get the logic. Same logic for everything in life, everyone has different standards and goals. Considering that most of these threads and comments are made by guys that struggle with this area of their life, i doubt they really want 8s and shit, so the advice should be tailored for a more "normie" girl.

What is your solution then? The number of incels is growing in a scary rate. And it is definetly not as easy as "just talk to girls" as Leo and others say. I know social guys with good social skills and good circle of friends (both guys and girls) that really struggle with girls. Basically same results as an incel with the opposite sex. Spamm approaching girls as they do in pick up wont work either, especially if scaled in a big degree. I think the only other solution is to teach men how to actually be men instead of this "be nice and kind" bs that feminism teaches them these days. Basically like men were in the old days, strong, dominant, assertive and just went for what they wanted (without turning into a devil ofc). So if values like assertivness, dominance, boldness etc were not demonized as they are these days, but encouraged in a healthy way, it would greatly benefit men (proper integration of stage red). Also, people could stop having these ridicioulous standards of having to sleep with 10/10s and learn to be content with an average looking girl, especially if they cannot really get a hot one for whatever reason. You are not a loser if you date a meh looking girl!. Lastly, removing this lookism bullshit which has infected young men. I doubt men in the 1800s went around giving a shit about how they looked to this obsessive degree that young men do these days. These things should fix it imo.

Well i am not a creative person nor have interest in it to make it a career. So what goods does my introversion give me? Yes, i am introspective, have a natural curiousity and relatively deep thinking about reality and harder to fall into group thinking and ideology than people around me. It does not give me what i want though.

All nice in theory but they are too conceptual. The real tangible results are gained through extroversion: girls, friends, good jobs, status, power, money, etc. An introvert will theorize it, the extrovert will just go and take it. You dont need scientific evidence for common sense.

If he is greedy yes. I advocate people learning to be happy with what they got. If u want a 9/10 go get them in real life. The point of online dating is to make people not starve.

@something_else Yes exactly this and to remove the horrible stigma they have. Very important! Considering 50 percent of all relationships are formed online, removing online stuff as an option would greatly cause people to be more social in order to get their sexual and intimacy needs met. Hard to do when dating is done online mostly. Either ban the apps or regulate them in a way where everyone gets results based on their level instead of 15 percent of guys getting all the girls. Would it not be cool if a 5/10 guy could match with a 5/10 girl in these apps?

If society gave the same care and attention to incels that they do to MeTOO cases and feminists, this issue would be solved quite fast. There is a huge biased on the west against incels. Disgusting imo, they need help more than anyone else. The minimum society can do is to see them as people that need help instead of judging them and calling them losers, terrorists etc. I am talking here about most incels, not the radical ones that are shoot up schools. And this is not easily solved by pick up, it does not scale well. If there is 1 thing i would do would be to ban or at least somewhat regulate dating apps and websites, i feel like they greatly influence incel growth.

Something that bothers me sometimes though is that when i am out and about i see usually on the streets or on social media, physically attractive girls with physically attractive guys. It is often the same attractivness level (give or take). It is rare for me to see an unattractive guy with an attractive girls. I am talking here about proper couples, not stuff that happens in clubs. So proper girlfriend basically. I know it is a limiting belief but it makes me feel a bit bad ngl.

Could also be lack of chemistry. It happens, which is why i would reccomend to get a feel for the girl before you go out with her. If you meet her before hand in another setting talk to her for at least 10 minutes before you decide to even ask her out. You should get a general feeling if you have chemistry with her or not. Experience of talking to a lot of girls helps you developing that feeling if you do not have it naturally. But if this happens constantly then it is a issue of being too platonic. I used to have this and still do sometimes but i am getting much better at it. What really helps as Leo said is to get in touch with your desire for her and feel 0 shame about it. Your insecurities will be the biggest hinderance here. Persoanlly i would just go on some dates with girls you are not really attracted to much just to handle the basic kino escalation and kissing. Trust me if you do it a few times it will get A LOT easier and natural. Then you can proceed with more attractive girls that you would actually be into. The issue of trying to escalate with girls you are really into is that you will lack the experience of escalating and it will be quite hard becuase you do not want to mess it up. If you are not into the girl much and the process becomes much easier. Then that experience transfers to the girls you like. That is what happened to me.

I am not talking "advices" from them. I just find it weird. Why would not they say they like confidence but they say they like looks? 0 reason for it. Sometimes when i am with girls and they mention hot guys i legit tell myself that they re full of shit and do not know what they are talking about.

Most of the times the guy would be objectivelly good looking when they say "he is so hot". Guys you would easily tell.

@Leo Gura From my experience that is true however there is 1 thing that always baffles me. Whenever you hear females talk about guys that they find attractive, they usually say stuff that relates to their looks. I almost never hear girls saying to others stuff like: "He is so confident so i find him attractive". It is always something physical. Why this imbalance between what they are attracted to and what they talk about ?

Most of my friends have slept with basically the same number of girls they have been in relationships with. How is that possible? I am always talking about normal typical dating, not pick up. So not the paradigm where you do pick up in clubs and talk with a lot of girls and do one night lays and stuff. I am talking about "normie" dating which is like 95 percent of all dating. It would be unfair to talk pick up dating which is a very small percentage of all dating.