Karmadhi

The comment which you replied to had quite a part of it mentioned the 7.10 attack. What denial are you talking about?

Comparing Nazi motives is not the same. Jews did not kick Germans out of their home, take their land, murder them or deny them rights. It was actually Germans that did this to Jews (like most European countries) through centuries. So it is a false comparison. First of all regarding "celebrating Hamas attack". How would people know from the start they targeted civilians and raped, killed kids etc? Maybe I am wrong here but in our news for example, it did not give these details until a while after the attack. So my first impression was that people of Gaza broke out from their massive prison and started killing Israeli security and military personnel. I did not know they did the horrible stuff until some days later. Maybe the people in Gaza thought the same? It is quite fine with me if they celebrate IDF soldiers being attacked or the walls breaking down. Obviously celebrating that civilians and kids were killed, women raped etc is wrong. Secondly, can you really blame the children's? What makes people so mad at this war is that like 40% of deaths/injuries are children's. To me they are a third party, totally avoid of responsibility. A Norwegian study put the median age (not average) of the victims in Gaza to be 5 years old. This is why people and liberals/leftists are so angry at Israel. And blaming Hamas for all 12.000 dead children's is massive shameless scapegoat. I really doubt if Israel actually tried properly, those 12.000 would be far less. Just the notion that we will not bomb an apartment building housing dozens of people because we know a terrorist is currently there. That policy alone would save tons of children's. Best analogy I have seen on this: "If a school shooter forced himself into a shopping mall, using all the people that happen to be there as human shields, would it be ok to bomb the whole shopping mall"? Imagine if USA started doing this in America. People would totally loose their shit. I do not know why it is so hard for Israelis to accept that this policy is wrong? I mean it is not hard for people like me or Zazan to accept that Hamas targeting civilians was wrong and the people responsible should be punished. Do you really think if we magically found and gathered all Hamas people responsible for killing civilians, the world would pardon them? So where is the "Hamas love" that Pro Israel constantly say anytime we criticize Israelis war actions and policies. And before you say: "You seem to tolerate Hamas". It is not that we tolerate Hamas, it is that we think and see that the people dying on the response are NOT Hamas in majority. Therefore you are killing the wrong people. Hope its clear.

Firstly this is a war we all see daily on social media and the heavy stuff can create strong emotional responses. I have also done quite some research on other wars happening right now, like the one in Ukraine but this is far worse from what I have seen. Also my countries are kind of allies of Israel so it adds insult to the injury. I am sure if we saw WW2 live it would be another story but no modern social media back then. And although the Hamas attack was horrible, I have always expressed it. Firstly there is barely any brutal footage of it (just reading stuff is not the same as seeing it) and secondly I feel sorry for Gazans even before this war. I cannot help but understand why they lashed out the way they did. Therefore I am indeed biased somewhat to their suffering because to me it has been historically far greater than the other side.

I am open to correction except accepting that what Israel is doing at the moment is acceptable, defendable or justifiable. We will not agree on that. If I said other stuff which you disagreed I am very open to changing my stance, including historical contexts.

Not holding your breath and commiting war crimes to the point where half the world accuses you of genocide and even your firmest allies accuse you of indiscriminately killing civilians are independent variables.

Were the other two people that bad that Biden won so hardly? I am unaware of the detailed politics but I see that many Americans do not like Biden, he has lowest approval ratings so I was wondering. I wish Sanders could have run, way better than the rest.

At least 20 people were killed as they waited for aid near Gaza City on Thursday, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza. Another 150 were injured — dozens critically — when an Israeli military strike hit "thousands of people desperate to get humanitarian aid at the Kuwait roundabout in Gaza City," the health ministry said. Journalists at the scene said people were waiting for aid along a main road, with local reports describing multiple casualties amid shelling and gunfire. Ministry spokesperson Ashraf al-Qidra said that the number of dead was “likely to increase" as hospitals do not have the means to treat them, and Gaza's Civil Defense described the injuries as "unbelievable." From CNN Khan Younis: ‘Mass casualties’ as UN shelter struck amid intense fighting in Gaza | CNN Since people do not trust Arab sources, here you have some pretty horrible things happening in the last 24 hours, which can be found in CNN.

@Vrubel Posting about war crimes is Islamic vibes to you? Because most of the links and videos sent here are about that.

How do you know he is a terrorist? The fact that he was released after 40 days shows the evidence was not enough, otherwise he would either recieve a jail sentence or just shot. USA did some bad things at Guatalamo but firstly it was 25 years ago and secondly it was a huge scandal that recieved insane outrage from the American people and internationally. Meanwhile, here you are defending the same practices. What scares me is that you are a relatively moderate Israeli and you wish good for others and still you tend to rationalize this stuff , I do not want to image how Ben Gvir voters must be.

@kenway Where are you from? No need for personal attacks. Nivsch is the most sensible pro Israeli guy here.

Funny thing is that if Palestinians decide to murder these illegal settlers, they are called terrorists.

You remind me of those Russians saying Ukrainians bomb their own people to justify their war crimes. It is quite clear IDF is waging a war against Palestinian people and therefore they want them to suffer because they see them all as terrorists and animals. This much is clear now. I never heard Western countries do this sort of barbarism in 2024. Ever. This is basically how Russia treats Ukranians POW. More proof that Russia and Israeli militaries are on the same wavelength. And since you say "every culture has its dark places", you can say Hamas is the "dark place" of Palestinian culture.

What do you mean? He was detained for 40 days, clearly showing he is not a terrorist and did not kill Jews. If they had concerete proof he was he would have either been shot or sent to jail. Meanwhile he was released. Showing that there was no concerete evidence linking him to the attacks. Therefore he was innocent (you are innocent unless proven guilty) and was treated in this way. You can see it on his eyes and how he is shaking the hell he went through. What is there to discuss? There was footage of them being naked and stuff. This is medieval barbaric stuff. Reminds me of how Mongols shit. Basically they have reached Hamas level brutality. Even Hamas did not treat their POW like this. I never heard of any hostage treated like this.

Palestinian shares horrifying memories after 40 days of Israeli captivity (youtube.com) How can a first world country treat other humans like this? This is beyond anything I have ever seen. This level of brutality towards innocent people. Even Hamas treated their hostages far better than this. This is reaching Nazi level shit honestly. I am ashamed the countries where i live have not canceled Israel for this level of devilry. @Nivsch How can you not feel angry when you see this? Being critical of your country when they do devilry is a pillar of democracy.

How is that cu** not in jail for complicity in war crimes is really beyond me...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68078580 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/1/25/israels-war-on-gaza-live-israel-kills-9-in-un-shelter-sparking-outrage More proof of IDF targeting civilians on puporse like Hamas did. More and more it is shown that they are just as cruel. I remember when @Leo Gura said "The US will look very bad once the death toll exceeds 10.000", Now we are 2.5x times that with no end in sight. Crazy.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/over-one-hundred-days-war-israel-destroying-gazas-food-system-and-weaponizing-food-say-un-human-rights-experts More proof this is a war against the people of Gaza, not against Hamas.

Not really. The strategic goal of eliminating Hamas is very normal. When you do it by basically breaking every International law of warfare and killing 10.000 children's often needisly it totally discredits that goal. Nobody has issues with the goal but with HOW the goal is done. Again, If I kill a terrorist by bombing a mall full of innocent people, I am just as bad as the terrorist. Until you comprehend this, we will forever argue here. For example I just read that Israel did today an attack on a line of civilians waiting to get food from the humanitarian aid. 20 dead and 150 wounded. Is this also targeting Hamas? They are just abusing that excuse to kill civilians left and right. Animals... Is this what the IDF stands for? @Lila9

I saw a clip of a Palestinian guy with a white flag being shot dead by soldiers in the middle of the street. How do you justify this? How many more documented blatantly open war crimes must happen for you to realize something is seriously wrong in the way this war is being conducted? And if they actually cared about civilians they would not strike a refugee camp killing close to 100 civilians to kill 1 Hamas guy. They would say "We can take him out but the death toll will be so big, it is not worth doing, we will take him out another way". That is how a moral army operates. In their minds there are 2 sides here: IDF and the enemy. Civilians are not seen as a third innocent party like you might think. Their actions openly show this.

They see them as terrorists and responsible for the October attacks. Israelis are genocidal towards Palestinians.

I expressed myself very badly, I am sorry. What i basically meant is that politically he may be more evolved than Putin, but when it comes to the tactics he uses on conducting warfare he basically uses the same tactics Russia does and has 0 consideration on civilian causalities. Even if Israel is showing some restraint it is mostly because of international community, not because they actually feel bad for killing civilians. The way you conduct war clearly shows how evolved you are. It it not just about politics.

But killing childreen sleeping in their homes is far worse than killing political opponents and journalists. The child is innocent, the political opponent is actively going against you. I am not saying it is an ok thing to do, but a society where innocent people get killed in their homes is far worse than one where you cannot actively go against a specific politican. The first is chaos and war, the second is called an autocracy The second is far better, which is why autocrats exist. A "democracy" that kills childreen does not create a world any better than an autocracy does, as long as it only attacks people actively going against the government. Just do not talk against them and you are fine. How will you be fine if you cannot defend yourself against a rain of bombs?

Did not know that the biggest open air prison in the world called Gaza, where nobody can go in and out and is heavily controlled by Israel is a "state".

There is daily provocation with the inhumane illegal way they get treated. So is the illegal taking of their land. All attacks although wrong, are very provocated. Even Leo has admitted this much. The head of UN and many organizations said the same.

Yes you are right. They were fighting the Nazis which killed close to 25.000.000 civilians all around Europe. So around 71 times more civilians. They are not called devils for no reason. Now tell me, how many did Hamas kill? Did they kill 3.5 million Israeli civilians which would be the equivalent of this? You think people would protest about Gaza if Hamas attacked killed that many Israelis? Scale matters.