Karmadhi

I do not see Americans secretly making black people infertile. If it was discovered it would make a gigantic scandal. Only an openly racist country like Israel or Russia can get away with it.

I take it 100 times more seriously than a government caught many times in lying and that is openly racist. This is how your country treats Ethiopian JEWS because they are not "white enough". Disgusting Israel Admits Targeting Ethiopian Jews for Compulsory Contraception | Center for Genetics and Society (Link cannot be send, just google it and you will find it). Are Ethiopian Jews Israel's second-class citizens? – DW – 09/29/2018 You can find many articles showing different treatment of non white jews. How can I take such a country seriously when it comes to them dealing with other ethnic groups? When they do this to their OWN PEOPLE just because they are not "white enough".

I dont understand what is the rationale of Ukraine for continuing to fight when they cannot possibly win. It just causes more deaths for them unnecessarily and it further weakness their position on the negotiation table when the time comes to discuss capitulation. Do you find it wise what Ukraine is doing?

I think that Israel s issue here is this: Focusing on destruction not precision is the issue here. If they focused on precision and not destruction then I would understand. But if your official spokeperson of the army says this then how can I argue with him? They admit it. https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-gaza-bombing. This is not acceptable. I am not denying some civilians would die but when you focus on precision the number is reduced. They are admittingly not doing it. The 80 civilians for 1 Hamas is direct proof of it. Leo, most liberals, UN, many governments are very critical of this policy.

Beautiful video.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-gaza-bombing Focusing on destruction not precision is the issue here. If they focused on precision and not destruction then I would understand. But if your official spokeperson of the army says this then how can I argue with him? They admit it.

Killing 50 civilians for 1 Hamas fighter death is not acceptable and is barbaric. It reminds me of Stalin who said once: "If we kill 50 people and 1 of them is an enemy of the state then we did a good job". That is the level Israel has fallen into. Sad. You need to think why the support for Palestine is so big and growing especially among educated western liberals. Why UN said that Israel is commiting a ton of war crimes. Why many governments even in the West (Ireland, Spain, even Belgium today) are saying Israel is going too far and they should be punished. Say whatever you want but if half the people you kill are kids, 10000% innocent kids, you are doing a shit job. Israel is basically devolving into Russia level of warfare conducting. Mass shelling civilians, cutting out electricity, water etc. They will for sure become the most hated country in the world by the end of the year. I wonder how will that actually make Jews around the world feel safe (quoting Leo here).

You need to understand that in the eyes of Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims and even most of Western liberals Israel started this by kicking out 750.000 Palestinians and murdering many during the Nakba. EVERYTHING after that is a response to it. If you steal my house then do not be suprised if I attack you back, I am not provocing you. https://www.google.com/search?q=nakba+territory+loss&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjR4MnbgriCAxU53wIHHffRABkQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=nakba+territory+loss&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoHCAAQigUQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEAgQHjoICAAQgAQQsQM6CQgAEAgQHhDHAzoECAAQHjoHCAAQGBCABFCgBljKJmCYJ2gCcAB4AIABUIgBhgiSAQIyM5gBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=i2RNZZHvIbm-i-gP96ODyAE&bih=739&biw=1536&rlz=1C1GCEU_enBE1021BE1021#imgrc=HdcFBp_OeyH9PM All the territory taken by Israel after 1947 UN creating Israel which the world agreed upon (mostly) is pure theft and people have the right to be angry about it. You can make the argument that the Jews should have a state there but the territory granted to you by the UN is that of 1947, any territory on top of that is land you stole illegally. Kicking out 750.000 people is proof of that. You do not kick out that many people if the land is actually yours.

@Breakingthewall Not pride but land and their cause. It is the typical nationalism which you also find in Ukraine. They are willing to sacrifice all their youth as long as the country does not get occupied by Russia. Most wars in history are fought over land. That is true. Both their governments are extreme nationalists. Both got to go IMO. I feel like Israel is being hurt way more politically because their appearances are a lot more important to them. Hamas was already a terrorist organization while Israel was not. Now both are being treated as such in the eyes of a lot of people. Although Israel from a humaniatrian perspective is not hurt a lot its reputation is taking a huge blow. Combine it with a rise in anti semitism around the world. And there was plenty of it even before this.

@Breakingthewall Provoke Israel to over react and Israel did that. Now Israel reputation (also the USA) is lowest its even been. The world is mad at them. Anti Semitism around the world is on the rise. Also a lot more sympathy for Palestine and a two state solution is now being discussed which was out of the question. Lastly it is a desperate attempt for Arab support on the Palestinian cause which was almost gone. Saudi Arabia siging the treaty with Israel would be the death of Palestine. These guys are nationalists, they see it from a nationalistic perspective not humanitarian. So if 20.000 Palestinians need to be sacrificed for Palestine to still exist they will do it. A humanitarian liberal cares about preservation of life firstly, not preservation of a "state".

@DawnC @Nivsch @DawnC I dont think any sane person would say that Hamas fighters are more humane than the IDF, however there are factors to consider. 1. Hamas is way weaker so it will be more ruthless. 2. Hamas fighters have suffered a lot under Israel so they have reasons to be ruthless, many are orphans whose parents were killed by Israel. Meanwhile IDF soldiers are usually first world boys who never had any pain come from them from Gaza so their brutality is a lot less justifiable. 3. Israel is more educated, more developed society so their brutality is less acceptable. We hold them on higher standards. 4. Israel is an occupier and therefore its aggresson is seen as more unfair than Hamas agression which is that of the occupied fighting back (although inhumanely). I dont know what you think on these points.

Man USA is the bastion of fairness, democracy and human rights. Those are their core values. If USA does not treat everyone the same they are going against their core values which is a major red flag. The reason people are so mad at USA is precisely that. Russia does not have those values so when it does bad things people accept it because they are open about being the way they are. From USA we expect more.

Many claim Israel will annex Gaza if the refugees leave. Russia invaded Ukraine so the country will not join NATO and to take the lands which are mostly Russian and should not be in Ukraine in the first place. I doubt they would have annexed Ukrainian majority populated lands. If you are a Russian in Ukraine being annexed by Russia kinda makes sense. Now though considering the many people killed in Russia they will probably annex more than just the contraversial areas like Donbask where there was war even before the invasion. Maybe I see it differently but if X land is populated by X people historically it should belong to the mother country, and if war is done to take it it is justifible because those people will live in the country where they belong. The issue is invading country that is totally different from yours. So if Russia invades Georgia and annexes it it is a mistake. Or if Russia takes part of Ukraine which are mostly Ukranian.

Interesting how Hamas attack which was old textbook military stuff is seen as this barbaric attack while Israeli response which is also old textbook military stuff is seen as "ok". Both are doing pre international law tactics yet only 1 side is frowned upon by governments.

Is Israel sanctioned? Are its leaders being called up or will be called up for war crimes? It is not equal treatment. It does not matter if 20.000 liberals march into Washington against Israel policies, what matters is that the actual governments punish Israel which they are not and probably will not do. I have heard plenty of reports that they keep weapons in civilian homes which is why Russia bombs them but I do not know if these claims are true.

Bro I am neither Muslim nor Arab. I live in Europe and my family is not linked to Arabs in any way. I just feel like if the West left the Middle East alone, the world would be a better and safer place for everyone, including people like me living in the West. My country is pro Israeli politically fyi.

How come when Russia did similar things in Mauripol during its siege everyone lost their shit and called them "war criminals" "animals" etc. Double standards right here... Russia would treat Ukraine way better than Israel treats Palestine and it would not kick them out of their homes if it won the war in its beginnings yet the struggle for Ukrainians to fight is praised upon. When Palestinians do it is frowned upon. The steaks for Palestinians here is higher because Russia sees Ukraine as part of itself while Israel sees Palestinians as inferior. You are talking about legal technicalities. Point is if someone kicks you out of your home, their cause to take revenge on you is just and understandable. Palestinian hatred towards Israel is justified. It does not justify Hamas atrocities though, but it makes them understandable. Also add on top of it treating them like shit for decades on top of taking their land. Calling this an unprovoked attack is not honest. It was bound to happen.

@PurpleTree And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect. The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks. Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East. Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries. If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with. Dont ignore this part. A country is responsible for the terrorism it gets because of their bad policies. Terrorism is like when you feel sick, it shows that something is wrong with what you have been doing.

Through understanding that your policies created them and work towards a better life for people in Palestine, removing toxic people from governments and giving them their own state. By becoming the better man and fighting violence with love and maturity. Like Nelson Mandela did it. Also some surgical attacks for necessary self defense but never if the civilian casualties exceed your own. I know it is very very hard to do but a very very hard problem requires a very very hard solution. Since Israel is richer, has more support and more developed it has the responsibility to do this. And of course Hamas leaders should be imprisoned for war crimes. Proper punishment to the people that did it. But it can be done through years. A nice comment I recently read: "The occupier never has the right of self defense against the occupier and Israeli is an occupying power over the Palestinian people".

And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect. The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks. Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East. Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries. If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with. How come the attacks are not happening anywhere else?

I am not talking about Hamas here nor ISIS. I am talking about attacking sovereign countries against all international law like they did for Iraq or Libya.

@Lila9 So people should trust the Israeli government with openly racist people that has historically often lied over an international organization? Lol...

The victimhood here is sad I can also claim that the West is Anti-Arab and Muslim considering the huge number of Arab-Muslim countries they have attacked in the last 30 years or so, often without provocation.

@Nivsch Thank you for your detailed response. Would you agree that the settlements in the West Bank needs to stop and the current government with the PM need to be replaced with a less right wing, less racist government for peace to follow? Also, I read that the current PM was on the process of changing the judiciary system to enhance his political power and Israelis were angry about that. What are your thoughts on that?

@Nivsch Since you seem a reasonable Israeli, I have a question. How is the Nakba justified in Israeli society, I saw a video of a Jewish professor saying you cannot even mention it there. Are Israelis aware of it and if yes, how is it justified? Nakba - Wikipedia for info.