Karmadhi

@Nivsch This is the fundamental problem here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ElWDKIzkdMM And this was before the terrorist attack on October. This guy is apparently a schoolar so not an uneducated moron, he holds the title "Doctor". And he is insulting ALL of them, not just radical terrorists like Hamas. He is insulting their entire race. As long as this attitude exists, the area will never find peace. I am not suprised if many elements in the Israeli Government or Military think like this.

Nobody is saying "Israel are all bad" or anything like that. But their current government is extremly racist and toxic and needs to change to a more green evolved government. Also there is a high degree of racism of many Israelis towards Palestine. Americans used to have the same attitude about blacks before the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s, it is not that before that they were all evil monsters or anything.

The historical 20-30x difference in casualties between Israel and Gaza shows otherwise. I dont give a shit about Hamas dying, I care about the Palestinian kids which are almost half of all dying. I care about the fact that 95% of those dying are civilains. If most dead would be Hamas terrorists I would not care at all about it. However if you think killing 50 civilians to kill 1 hamas is acceptable than I will not agree with you. To me Palestinian kids and Hamas are independent variables. I do not see 1 linked to the other. Kill Hamas but if you kill Palestinian civilian kids while doing it then you are wrong and deserve punishment. Palestinian civilian kids lives should have priority over Hamas soldiers deaths. To Israel they dont. Hence the liberal outrage including mine.

Google "Terror Bombing". That is what Israel is doing. It is a standard military strategy. Also their logic is this: "50 civilians dead for 1 hamas fighter dead is acceptable". It shows absolutely 0 regard for civilian lives which their right wing government sees as subhuman. Hitler and Stalin had similar mindsets. There is endless footage of Israel bombing convoys trying to leave killing hundreds. UN Staff says south of gaza is not much safer. UN is by far more trustworthy here than any other source since they are the most impartial. Correct, an invasion will be a disaster. You have endless footage of Israel carpet bombing Gaza.

Watch the article I sent from new york times above.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html Research done by New York Times regarding the hospital issue. "Using satellite imagery to triangulate the launch point in those videos, The Times determined that the projectile was fired toward Gaza from near the Israeli town of Nahal Oz shortly before the deadly hospital blast. The findings match the conclusion reached by some online researchers"- Copy Pasted from the article. The fact that people here, even @Leo Gurawould trust Israel government (which has lied many times and has 0 integrity) over independent sources is scary to me. At this point after carpet bombing Gaza for weeks, is it still hard to imagine that the Israeli Army is morally capable for this? It is not like they have much empathy for Palestinian Civilians. Even a Western Source is putting heavy doubts in Israel. Let that sink in...

Yes but also Hamas soldiers are suicidal because they think they go to heaven if they die fighting Israel. They will not hesitate to fill themselves with dynamite and go behind a Israeli tank and blow it up. Such an enemy puts a lot of strain into the morale of a solider and unfortunately it results in them becoming reckless even if they are normally professional. Also Hamas soldiers are used to hardships because they grew up in a hell zone, Israeli soldiers are first world spoiled boys who never had any hardships in their lives. Combine this with hunderds of kilomiters of tunnels, very good knowledge of every street and a sea of rubble and it will not be fun for Israel. If civilians are in there then it will be even worse since Israel will have to show some sort of restraint which Hamas can utilize in their advantage. If civilians are evacuated it will be Iwo Jima 2.0, if not then Okinawa 10x. Of course Israel will win in the end but it will result in heavy casualities and the ones that survive will be traumatized for life (same way many US soldiers were after Vietnam). Lastly keep in mind Hesboullah can invade from the North and they are stronger than Hamas. So Israel cannot leave its flank open and will need to keep reserves there. They cannot put in Gaza all they got.

At this point the shit I have seen happening in Gaza looks more and more like WW2 shit. I thought developed countries had evolved past such barbarity but unfortunately there is much work to be done. The Israeli army is degrading into murderous insanity.

@Nivsch Precision drone strikes and give back Palestinians more rights and work towards equality.

@Vrubel That is why every UN impartial source says the war crimes happening there are out of control. Please stop with this biased bs

@Leo Gura If Israel wants to commit war crimes their leadership should go to court for war crimes like other countries have went. I dont see this happening. Do you?

I feel like low consciousness behavior which is of course bad for spiritual development, tends to be rewarded by women so it can be tempting but I do not think it is mandatory for success. It is just harder to do it the highly conscious way.

@zazen Israel has a very low morally development government for a first world democracy, full of openly racist people, you can do a bit of research in some of their ministers. Such people would not be elected in office in the West. I doubt an Western European politican could get away with chanting "Death to Arabs", he would be canceled very fast and never see politics again. Yet in Israel since the moral development is a lot lower it is not an issue. Similar to how Nazis were voted even though they openly said very racist things. That was the moral development of Europe at the time. I am sure there are progressives or green people in Israel but from what I have seen many ministers seem to be quite blue to me. The solution would be for Israel to elect a more loving less racist green government which will work towards peace and love. As they are better educated, richer, and have never faced hardships like relatives being killed by Palestine etc for years, they should be more empathetic and understanding of Palestine. They should work towards solutions and even punish their own that did war crimes. Become the Nelson Mandela of the region. Learn the same way Germany did after its two world wars and became a peaceful democratic and humanitarian country. They have the responsibility to do it since they are more developed. Yes, i may sound like a libtard here but that is how I feel about it.

Of course there are. Why is Russia sanctioned out of its ass, its leaders wanted for war crimes and internationally condemned? Why not do same treatment to Israel? Russia also has the right to defend itself against NATO expansion yet its brutalities are being punished, while Israeli's brutalities for their self-defense are not.

@Nivsch Nobody supports Hamas but many liberals in the west support Palestine. Nobody supports Hamas though especially their last mass murder. Liberals support Palestinian childreen being blown up and starved because Israel can and the world does not bother to help them much

@Breakingthewall Your whole post is extremely biased and racist. What Israel should do is realize its policies only create and enforce terrorists. They should stop expanding their land, give back some land to the Palestinians and give same legal rights to Palestinians. Same way white americans did to afro americans. This will ease the hatred towards Israel and move things towards a better future. It is the least Israel can do to cleanse its sins since 70 years ago. Just like Germany did. Otherwise keep doing things the same way and endure terrorist attacks forever.

Leo how have you been feeling these days? I read you are taking a break from Actualized.org.

@Leo Gura It is also toxic Blue and overly nationalistic with a toxic Zionist Ideology. Being a liberal democracy is irrelevant when your entire population is brainwashed. I know people that visited there and told me the amount of brainwashing they put kids from early school is insane. A brainwashed population will elect brainwash leaders that dehumanize their "enemies" and have no moral qualms about killing them. It is not rocket science. Most of Israeli s population was born after Israel was founded and have been brainwashed all their life to believe they are right. Also the current government being Zionist does not help. Zionism is quite toxic if you have read about it. You can find plenty of intellectually honest Israelis deeply critizining their governments and calling out their propaganda bullshit and inhumane treatment of palestininas

I think the difference is that Leo views Israel government as more morally developed than some of us here do. Personally i would put them on the level of Putin's Russia.

You seem to be more critical of Russia's war crimes than Israel which is an issue. Both governments are toxic Blue overly nationalistic. Is it hard to believe a nationalistic blue government is capable to commit war crimes without much moral qualms? It has been happening for centuries. Nothing new here. However, Russia does not get away with it and Israel does. This unequal treatment is what causes all the outrage. And similar acts to this also have been happening in the past in that region. Google the conflict there in 2014, 5 Israel civilians dead to over 2000 palestininas, there were no savage Hamas killing civilians in mass back then.

@Leo Gura So Israeli is bombing many hospitals by your logic… Is it not hard to believe they realized they messed up once they saw the extent of the damage done and the international outrage and decided to change the narrative. Most countries would do it Usa lied about invading a whole country, this is not new stuff. Also that tweet came from Benjamin s spokeperson, not just any Israeli

@Leo Gura You are conviently ignoring the fact that Izraeli officials tweeted about successfuly bombing a hospital and killing “terrorists in there” and then deleting the tweet once footage started coming out and the world got angry. This is more telling than any “investigation” they may do about responsibility of the attack. They literally admited it…

There were tweets by Israel just after the attack claiming they had destroyed a hospital and killed terrorists in it". Then the tweet was deleted and the narrative was created that Hamas rockets did it. Why would Israel spokesperson claim that in the first place? Maybe they realized the outrage was immense, realized they went too far and blaime it on Hamas. Does not sound too hard to believe does it? I am suprised you even take IDF seriously, they are as credible of a source as Russia s army. Name of the person was Hananya Naftali if you are wondering.

Sorry to say but Israel had it coming. If you poke a Hornet s nest enough, it will sting you back. I am not saying the people that died deserved to die, they were innocent civilians, but it is their government actions over the span of decades that broke the camel back and led to the tragedy. It is not an unprovoked attack. Ukraine also does the same yet it gets love and support. Russia claims it bombed Ukranian civilian areas for the very same reason. Also nobody here supports Hamas, we just understand why they do what they do. If possible everyone here would love Hamas to be wiped out but when it takes 10.000 innocent palestinian civilian lives to do so then of course we will revolt. Especially when many of them can be avoided if Israel is willing to.

This is my whole point... but @Scholartends to ignore it and just call us "kids".