Karmadhi

Is Israel sanctioned? Are its leaders being called up or will be called up for war crimes? It is not equal treatment. It does not matter if 20.000 liberals march into Washington against Israel policies, what matters is that the actual governments punish Israel which they are not and probably will not do. I have heard plenty of reports that they keep weapons in civilian homes which is why Russia bombs them but I do not know if these claims are true.

Bro I am neither Muslim nor Arab. I live in Europe and my family is not linked to Arabs in any way. I just feel like if the West left the Middle East alone, the world would be a better and safer place for everyone, including people like me living in the West. My country is pro Israeli politically fyi.

How come when Russia did similar things in Mauripol during its siege everyone lost their shit and called them "war criminals" "animals" etc. Double standards right here... Russia would treat Ukraine way better than Israel treats Palestine and it would not kick them out of their homes if it won the war in its beginnings yet the struggle for Ukrainians to fight is praised upon. When Palestinians do it is frowned upon. The steaks for Palestinians here is higher because Russia sees Ukraine as part of itself while Israel sees Palestinians as inferior. You are talking about legal technicalities. Point is if someone kicks you out of your home, their cause to take revenge on you is just and understandable. Palestinian hatred towards Israel is justified. It does not justify Hamas atrocities though, but it makes them understandable. Also add on top of it treating them like shit for decades on top of taking their land. Calling this an unprovoked attack is not honest. It was bound to happen.

@PurpleTree And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect. The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks. Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East. Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries. If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with. Dont ignore this part. A country is responsible for the terrorism it gets because of their bad policies. Terrorism is like when you feel sick, it shows that something is wrong with what you have been doing.

Through understanding that your policies created them and work towards a better life for people in Palestine, removing toxic people from governments and giving them their own state. By becoming the better man and fighting violence with love and maturity. Like Nelson Mandela did it. Also some surgical attacks for necessary self defense but never if the civilian casualties exceed your own. I know it is very very hard to do but a very very hard problem requires a very very hard solution. Since Israel is richer, has more support and more developed it has the responsibility to do this. And of course Hamas leaders should be imprisoned for war crimes. Proper punishment to the people that did it. But it can be done through years. A nice comment I recently read: "The occupier never has the right of self defense against the occupier and Israeli is an occupying power over the Palestinian people".

And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect. The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks. Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East. Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries. If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with. How come the attacks are not happening anywhere else?

I am not talking about Hamas here nor ISIS. I am talking about attacking sovereign countries against all international law like they did for Iraq or Libya.

@Lila9 So people should trust the Israeli government with openly racist people that has historically often lied over an international organization? Lol...

The victimhood here is sad I can also claim that the West is Anti-Arab and Muslim considering the huge number of Arab-Muslim countries they have attacked in the last 30 years or so, often without provocation.

@Nivsch Thank you for your detailed response. Would you agree that the settlements in the West Bank needs to stop and the current government with the PM need to be replaced with a less right wing, less racist government for peace to follow? Also, I read that the current PM was on the process of changing the judiciary system to enhance his political power and Israelis were angry about that. What are your thoughts on that?

@Nivsch Since you seem a reasonable Israeli, I have a question. How is the Nakba justified in Israeli society, I saw a video of a Jewish professor saying you cannot even mention it there. Are Israelis aware of it and if yes, how is it justified? Nakba - Wikipedia for info.

Leo has said that Jews tend to have a lot of power in the US lobbying and therefore US (and europe because of US) tend to support Israel a lot. What do you think about it? Also there is some sort of racism towards Arabs from the west unfortunately. I feel like if it was not Israel but another arab country attacked the same way Hamas did, they would not react the same way.

I would create a clear policy. 1 Hamas fighter death is not worth 1 Palestinian kid death. That rule would not be broken. Simple.

Their REP literally said we would do a different approach if it was Israeli civilians instead so they are not doing their best at all. If they said: "Yes we would kill them the same because there is no other solution" then I would believe that there is no other way. But there is Also do you realize that these policies will create a new Hamas, probably more ruthless than the old one. To kill 1 Hamas person, they efficectvly laid the seeds for multiple new Hamas people to rise up in time. It is like the Hydra, you cut 1 head and 3 others replace it. For their own good Israel should not do this. Jew reputation is at its historical lowest since the 1930s and all of the Arab countries are mad at Israel. You have 2.2 million people that all lost a relative and their house. Even 1% of them becoming terrorists, you got now a new Hamas, probably more ruthless. Also most people affected are young, which makes it easier to convince them to become future terrorists. Iran, ISIS, Hesbullah, Talibans etc etc will be there to guide them to it. How do you plan to deal with this? I am curious. I am talking for your own country's good here. It is bad for the West also. A part of these new refugees will find their way in the West and relocated there as war refugees. When you got 2.2 milion people you are guaranteed for new terrorist acts to happen. And i am not even counting the already million of Arabs living in the West that are mad at Israel and the west. Biden is facing a chance to loose some states just because of muslims that historically voted democrat to not vote anymore for democrats. Giving rise to Trump. These things are not being thought through well I feel.

@DawnC What about West Bank? Why Israelis treat them like shit? No Hamas in West Bank, and Israelis keep taking land. It is just adding more fuel to the fire. Do not ignore that...

@Tobia How come Bush did that? Interesting... Did USA Israel relation get closer since then or was Bush less pro Israel?

@Nivsch I saw this interview here which basically said: "Would Israeli do the same tactics if Hamas was hiding among Israelis. The guy said "No". Now, I do agree that Israeli will care more about their own citizen lives than another country, I cannot realistically expect them not to. However, it shows that if Israel truly wanted, they could find ways to hit Hamas with less collateral damage. They are choosing the easy way out. "Oh there is an enemy somewhere there? Fuck it, just blow the whole area it will get him in the end". "What about all the civilians there"? "Fuck them, they support Hamas so they deserve to die along with them". There was a Piers Morgan interview with an Israeli ex PM (bald guy dont remember his name) and the guy legit said: "Many people in Gaza support Hamas, they are not independent variables". If a PM has that attitude it clarifies a lot about the fact that indeed Israelis think that Palestinians in Gaza are with Hamas and are all seen as the enemy. It would explain a lot with this carpet bombing bs. Now maybe some older people may support Hamas (and that is understandable) but half dying are young kids which are 100000% innocent and therefore this is barbaric. Imagine saying "Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas in 2006, they like them" when literally half that are dying were not even born then. It is the same logic saying to German kids born in 1960s "You guys elected the Nazis so you like and support him'

You do realize Germany supports Israel because they feel guilt for the atrocities they commited on Jews, not because they think Israel is actually on the right. I mean kudos to them but Germany supporting you does not mean that you are on the right here... "Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person. And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy. At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas. What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?" This is Leo's comment. Would like your feedback on it. Especially on the barbaric philosophy that killing 80+ civilians is worth the life of 1 Hamas person. Do Israeli military even take into account the civilian deaths or they use some sort of Black Mirror vision goggles where they eliminate all civilians from their vision and only see Hamas and no other humans around? Honestly, educate me on this because I cannot understand how they think...

The fact that the Israeli government finds a ratio of 50 civilians dead and hundreds injured to kill 1 Hamas leader shows the fundamental issue in this war. A humane government would find another way, Palestinian civilians in large numbers lives should ALWAYS take priority over Hamas leaders deaths. They should get them in another way. It is not like they lack the money or technology or skill. It is a matter of will and humanity, things their government fundamentally lacks.

That is irrelevant. You sign something then you respect it or get punished. There are not "buts". Personally I do not think 50 civilians dead and hundreds wounded is worth 1 Hamas leader. I would get him another way and spare 50 people. This is the mindset of people that do not care about civilian deaths. 50 to 1 is unacceptable ratio. Dot. Those people are military people that are currently fighting and getting killed so I do not think war crime trials are necessary. They will fall in battle. If there are Hamas leaders chilling in other countries they should be arrested and sent to war crime trials for sure. Any news of it being replaced?

However the country should still suffer the consequences of not respecting them. This would imply war crime trials for its current government and some military leaders. But can you explain to me from an Israeli point of view why that is not the case? I have seen endless footage of harassment, humiliation and even kids getting shot from police wanting to test their accuracy. Barbaric stuff. Just why? What did those poor people do to deserve that?

The fundamental issue with Israel as a state is that it is created and flourished at the expense of others. Everyone that values fairness and equality a lot will find the country itself built on problematic grounds and therefore will be a lot less sensitive to its suffering even if it is genuine. Combine this with the way Israel has treated Palestinians in general, INCLUDING THE WEST BANK WHERE THERE IS NO HAMAS, SO NO TERRORISTS We see now a rise in antisemitism all over the world, it is sad because most of the Jews outside Israel have no say it in. What I wish can happen after all this is that Israel will learn it is NOT above intentional law and start treated Palestinians, at least in the West Bank where they do not do terrorist attacks from, as equals. I do not think it is much to ask for. But please, everyone here that is Pro Israel or from Israel, why does Israeli treat Palestinians in the West Bank badly there? As far as I saw there is no Hamas there, why are not they treated as equals to Jews?

So you are admitting Israel is in the wrong in the way they are reacting and dealing with this.

Interesting how Israelis seem more fond of animals than of Palestinians kids. However I am not surprised since they famously said "Comparing Arabs to animals is an insult to the animals". The more I see how this war is going the more barbaric Israelis shows themselves to be. Just an hour ago they bombed a refugee camp which they declared a safe zone for people to go to and at least 50 confirmed dead. Fucking monsters.

Nakba -Google this. I know in Israeli it is not allowed to be mentioned because it clearly shows their atrocities. Kicking out people that lived there for centuries seems like expulsion to me. Rationalize it however you want. I am not saying no land in Israel is Jewish. But many territories were Palestinian. Your first PM had to get a palestinian visa to even enter. Let that sink in...