Karmadhi

70% dying are women and kids. Let that sink in. So you admit half dying are 100% innocent. How is this acceptable? When you are killing innocent people in the thousands like this maybe you should change tactics? Maybe Israeli leadership, the right wing in power see the kids as future terrorists and therefore "kill them before they grow" kind of mindset. Maybe they do not seem them as human? How does the mind of the IDF rationalize this? 40 kids died under Hamas. 4000 under IDF. All innocent. Yet more than 100:1 ratio for IDF.

Females are more sensitive to baby females being murdered in the thousands that Israel is doing than a couple dozens cases of rape of women that Hamas did. Scale also matters.

So all the civilians that died in Mauripol Ukraine are ok since they also told the officials there to surrender but they kept fighting?

But are not most of those civilians independent of Hamas attacks? 40% are kids. It is apples and oranges.

Israel got plenty of empathy after the attack but the way they dealt with it got all the greens angry and they became the most hated country in the world.

Dude do you hear what you say? What responsibility do 4000 childreen have? Are you blaming them also? If people like in Israel think like you, that killing kids is justice then I feel like that country is not more evolved than Nazi Germany. Hamas is responsible for terrorist attacks and they are being attacked. No issues here. However when the attack kills mostly innocent people then you fucked up.

@Vrubel 40% are kids so they are innocent. Are you also going to blame now kids for this? We had different morality back then. If you use old school morality system to justify IDF bullshit then also what Hamas did is fine because in the past that is how most wars were fought. Mongols used to make mountains with the heads of the people they killed. So justifying 1 side war crimes by picking a point in history where they were "ok" is shameless and manipulative. I can easily also do that to call Hamas actions "textbook military practice". But I do not. Because we live in 2023 where this things, as well as IDF actions are illegal and not acceptable. The issue is that you are killing people that have nothing to do with it. 40% are kids. By default innocent. Your attitude in equating those kids with Hamas is the attitude IDF does which justifies these barbarities in their minds. Disgusting.

Israeli military made a tweet saying we got a hamas guy when we bombed this refugee camp and the death toll of that refugee camp was around 50. I saw footage in my instagram at the aftermath of that refugee camp attack. Dead kids and people trying to get each other from the rubble. Horrible stuff. This is not rocket science. But if you want another source. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/dozens-killed-after-israeli-airstrikes-on-gaza-refugee-camp

Because it is common sense that it is wrong. Why condemn something when it is common sense? No sane person would support raping women. However Israel has done a lot of morally shady things so it is more of a target to be condemned. Also Hamas is not a country nor an official government, it is just seen as an ISIS type of thing and people do not feel the need to explicitly condemn them. Also Hamas has no international support from practically anyone. Israel does. IDF does not target civilians for the sake of targeting civilians but it does not care at all about the number of civilians including childreen that die if their attacks also kill Hamas people. They said "We killed 50 civilians (or 80 not sure) at a refugee camp and we got 1 Hamas guy. For them it is fine. So maybe they did not target those civilians explicitaly, but they simply do not care about them. They are seen as NPC in a video game. Their lives are worthless. If they actually cared then they would not pull the trigger. They would say: "If we get this guy using this bomb, dozens of civilian's and kids will die and that is not acceptable for us. We will figure out another way that will do less collateral damage". I mean 50 civilians to kill 1 soldier is dictator style thinking. Stalin the tyrant of the USSR said during the great purge "If we kill 50 innocent people to get 1 enemy of the state, that is a fine ratio". Let that sink in. I really really do not believe that Israel has no other choice here. They have one of the most advanced armies in the world and its population tends to be quite smart and educated. I am sure if they actually wanted they could have gotten the same number of Hamas dead with fewer civilian deaths. Surgical precise attacks is the answer. The fundamental issue is that I have noticed in interviews of Israeli important people that they feel like all people in Gaza share responsibility for the attack and therefore they deserve to be punished. They are seen as 1 with Hamas, and their deaths are payback for what Hamas did. Which is quite disgusting considering half dying are kids which are by default innocent. 1 example Look at how he reacts, you can tell by his voice he does not see Palestinians as more innocent than Hamas. He is just annoyed by them. Zero empathy. And to think this cu** was PM and was better than the current PM.

@Buck Edwards Also he seems to care more about Israeli civilians dying than Palestinians. And he is not a Jew. That is the epitome of douchebagery.

@Leo Gura I think this is the first thread in this forum to go over 200 pages. Congrats

I was saying that the Jewish minorities in Muslim countries get treated better than Palestinians in Israel. You do not need Jewish kids shot as target practice for fun or burned alive for no reason like you see happen in West Bank by the Israeli regime. Then people wonder why Hamas is so brutal. Israel taught them well.

Nationality is not religion. Do not confuse the two.

Most people are not anti semetic. Why would liberals be against Israel? Liberal green people are not anti semetic. They are anti oppression and anti bully and Israel is oppressive and an bully. According to Stage Green it is. Calling stage green antisemetic is horseshit.

It is grounded in Religion. Its equivalent would be Talebans, ISIS or Hamas. An ethno state made of people from X religion and those people have special status. It is cancer on earth. Just like countries like Iran, Taleban Afghanistan etc are. It is basically the Judaism version of the Islamic Caliphat. The concept of the Islamic Caliphat is frowned upon by most countries, do not be suprised that Zionism also gets a ton of hate by ordinary people. Radicalism is not liked. You have countless people in Israel justifying taking land because "It is given to us by God". This is just as proposterous as stoning a woman for not wearing Hijab because "Allah said she should do it". Radicalism 101. You may say that Israel is a democracy etc and that may be true, it is run as stage orange country. However the conception of Israel itself as a state is extremly blue, toxic blue.

Before the Talebans Afghanistan was not an Islamic State though. And Taleban government which was formed last year is not recognized by almost anyone. "As of late 2022, no country recognizes them as the lawful government of Afghanistan, however, there has been limited recognition of their de facto governance over the country." So it just proves that Religious based countries are not welcomed in the world. Iran is also heavily disliked by many including the West. So do not be suprised that Israel is also disliked by many (not the Western governments though).

Iran s current regime is horrible and their citizens are tired of it. Once their leader dies I think there will be another revolution and radical Islam will be removed from power there. The natural order of things where stage blue goes to orange is bound to happen there soon. I do not support Iran, the world would be better if it became a secular country not a radical religious dictatorship like it currently is. People there though are extremely nice and not racist at all. I met many from there. They told me there is around 20% or so which are religious fanatic Mullahs that have the power, the rest are not radicals and actually want to become more Western. They definetly treat them better than Israel treats Palestinians though. You cannot deny that. According to the author of Sapiens in an interview with Piers Morgan, it was retaliation for the Nakba. Yes it was wrong though. They could not defeat Israel in a war so they kicked out all their Jews as a form of revolt. There are millions of Palestinians abroad. They have the biggest diaspora per capita in the world. Jordan alone has millions of them.

@hundreth ISIS wanted to do that, an Islamic state. It caused global outrage and they were destroyed. The rest like UAE, Egypt etc have majority Muslims but they also have religious minorities living there and they are not created for the purpose of being an Islamic state. The difference is the purpose why the country exists. ISIS s purpose was to be that, an Islamic state and it got destroyed because of it. I understand the world feels like they "owe" Jews considering how they were treated but Arabs do not owe Jews anything. If there is something like a Zionist state, it should be on the land of countries that actually treated Jews horribly. Like Germany. However Europeans did not want them so they dumped them in Palestine. Also Israel where it is, was used as a tool to control the region by the West. As Biden said "If there was no Israel, the US would have to invent an Israel there". Shows that there is much more here than just "Jews should have a homeland there". Lots of interests, both political and economical. Mostly because Arab area has lots of oil. Before Israel Jews and Muslims lived together in Palestine and all was good.

There are many interests at play here. Gaza has access to sea, resources, and it is land Israel can claim if they continue doing it. They are not just doing this to kill Hamas, they got other objectives on top of that. Resources and land. Would not be suprised if Hamas is the excuse used for these other goals, same way "WMD" were used to invade Iraq.

Hamas wanting to destroy Israel as an INSTITUTION is understandable. I do not blame them for that at all. However, destroying an institution and killing innocent civilians are different things. You can destroy an institution by destroying governmental and military buildings and killing soldiers. Killing innocent civilians randomly in massacres is totally wrong and not justifiable. That is the error Hamas makes. Also when you say "we will eradicate Jews" that is not acceptable. If they said "we will destroy the concept of the Israeli state but not harm civilians in mass while doing so" then that is ok considering how Israel treated them in decades. You guys need to make the distinction between destroying the artificial social construction that is a "state" and taking human lives. You can do the first without burning kids alive. No reason to do that. It is totally unnecessary. Also people should be free to practice whatever religion they want at peace. If Israel is gone, Hamas should let the Jews practice their religion at peace. There is no reason for Jews to have an ethnic state. I do not see an Islamic state or Christian state anywhere. A state should be for everyone to live in and live in equally. Sure, you can have majorities but the idea of a "Jewish state" is in itself racist and discriminatory. Imagine if a state said "You either convert to our religion or need to leave, we will only have people following X religion here". The world would loose its shit. Judaism is ok, Zionism is a disaster.

So there are radicals at both sides. "Soon after Mohammed’s murder, his parents laid down a small memorial stone, surrounded by flowers. A few months later, in September 2014, the Israeli police threatened to destroy the memorial. For the Palestinian family, maintaining the humble memorial was a daily struggle." Why would they do this? I really wish it was but the endless footage of them cheering on deaths of civilians shows me otherwise. You have many decent people there, also many radicals and animals. Same in Palestine. Sad situation. And yes Hamas sucks, no need to not mention that. But I cannot help but understand where they come from. I cannot understand where Israel is coming from. If Israeli did this to Germans or even Europeans after being treated like shit by them then I would understand (although condenmn it). I do not see why Palestinians deserve it. And I am talking in general not just what is happening from last month. A human that becomes an animal from abuse, I can understand. A human that becomes an animal for no reason, I cannot.

Equally disgusting to Israel police offers practing their shooting skills on kids in the West Bank and laughing about it or filming rockets from Israel striking Gaza and cheering on. As I said, both sides have barbaric people in them. Hatred causes this. My question is, why does Israel hate Palestine and Arabs? What did they ever do to you? And all these examples were before the attack last month so it cannot be used as a reason.

To be honest it is not because they are Jews per say. If they were Christian it would be the same. Unsure if they were muslim.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/visiting-the-home-of-mohammad-abu-khdeir-who-was-burned-alive-by-israeli-settlers/ https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/west-bank-kidnappings/slain-palestinian-teens-body-unrecognizable-father-says-n146626 Here you go Even the peaceful ones are still thieves. Theft sends you to jail. There are countless videos I seen of Israeli people supporting murder of babies in Palestine, making fun of the situation there. It has even become a Tik Tok trend. I do agree that Palestinians can be more ruthless but there is a difference. WHEN YOU ARE CRUEL TO SOMEONE FOR NO REASON IT IS WORSE THAN WHEN YOU ARE SUPER CRUEL TO SOMEONE THAT TREATED YOU LIKE SHIT FOR DECADES. You Israelis never seem to understand this... You can give 100 reasons why Palestinians hate Israelis but there are no reason for Israelis to hate Palestinians other than classic racism.

Although to be fair I have noticed that the people killed by Hamas have gotten little recognition by many people including Liberals. What happened to them was horrible. I think it is because when a ruthless oppressor finally gets hit back, even if that hit back involves innocent people, people tend to be more tolerant to it. Similar to how the bombing of Dresden which was a clear horrible war crime was ignored because it was done to Nazis and people were sick with their bs. Similar here, people were already sick with Israel bs. However there should be more condemnation of it, I mean people even celebrated about it in the west. They saw it as "we finally hit them back", ignoring that the hit back was mostly massacre of civilians. "Hit them back" should be on soldiers. If it was just soldiers dead it would deserve praise, but civilians? I dont agree with celebrating killing kids... Nor killing people from countries that have nothing to do with this like the German tattoo artist. Maybe they were not aware that it was so ruthless and many civilian dead? I know the Israelis here will say "anti semitism" but I am talking about Liberals here kind of ignoring the Israeli civilians killed. Liberals are not anti Jews. I dont know what you guys think?