Karmadhi

Everything you wrote is about Europe and USA being assholes to Jews. Why wasnt Israel founded in Europe? Since they seem to be the assholes here, not Palestinians. The fundamental issue I have with this whole debate is that 90% of all hardships Jews faced historically were done by Europeans. Yet, Arabs are the ones suffering because of Jews. Cant you see how unfair that is?

Of course if you act nice and kind people will be nice to you. It is retarded to treat everyone from a country bad. But Israeli nationalism is totally frowned upon these days and if you spur out the stuff you spur on this forum in the real world, people will shame you and criticise you. I also know Russians where I live in the west of Europe which get treated well and everything. They are against Putin and the war. People got no issues with them. It is racist to treat someone bad just because of where they are from, that applies to Israelis too. Although general hatred towards Jews and Israelis has increased, there is no doubt in that.

Reality is that you will keep getting terrorist attacks more in the future and the entire world hates Israel now. If you want to talk about reality.

They did because of the barbarity they did to Europeans including 27 million Soviets killed out of 17 were civilians. They lost land to Poland after basically killing 17% of its population and razing the capital. Not to mention they bombed the shit out of London and other cities which lead to UK bombing them back. Issue is that all those things you wrote have nothing to do with the Holocaust. Why didnt Germany give land for a Jewish state? Why make it in Palestine, who was innocent during WW2? Clownery indeed...

Stop using fake numbers. I already called you out once. The true number is 1139 and from these 695 civilians. Out of the 695 some were killed by Israel themselves. Most likely Hamas killed 500 civilians or so. So not 1500 but 500 people were killed which should not have been killed. The soldiers are fair game in war. 500 is 1/3 of 1500. So stop with propaganda numbers please. 500 in a single day is still pretty bad, even though Israel did the same in Gaza every day for weeks afterwards and then in Lebanon some weeks ago. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231215-israel-social-security-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths Here is a source as proof.

Why didnt those Jews go via immigration to Palestine and then they could have elections or any of the other things. There were plenty of Jews in other Arab states living with the locals peacefully. Why create a jew state in the first place? And why create it in such a terroristic way?

So Germany who killed 6 million Jews has to pay some money while Palestine who did not do shit had half of its land stolen. Clownery...

That means Ukraine would kick Russia out of 20% of the Ukranian land it occupies. They tried last year in the famous counteroffensive which failed horribly. Now Russia has progressed further, with Ukraine suffering more and more from lack of weapons and especially manpower. Ukraine was stronger in 2023 during the counter offensive yet it failed to grab any land back. Now how can they magically not only stop loosing more land but kick out Russia over the land it occupies, where Russia has long since built heavy defenses. I fail to understand this logic. It is like saying Germany will conquer USSR in 1944 after they horribly failed in 1941.

Not regarding the holocaust. There was no punishment for Germany about it. They just decided to put all the Jews in Europe into a new state for Jewish people and since the UK occupied land in the Middle East, it was decided to make it there. Was Palestine consulted about it? Was the region? Did they give the green light beforehand? Did Palestine population did? I dont think so. So Palestine was the one that suffered the consequences with half its territory of the British Mandate being given to Israel. Why didnt Europe force Germany to give up some of its territory for Israel? Or Italy? Nobody would have had issues with that.

Perhaps it was not clear what I wrote. I will make it more clear. I was referring to the creation of Israel and all the brutal actions that came with it. I am not referring to what is happening right now, but explaining why Israel is so hated by the region. All the brutal actions Leo explained regarding how Israel was funded. PS: Do not use fake numbers, Israel has said around 1150 died in total and around 750 to 800 were civilians. From them, some were killed by Israel itself but the number is unknown.

I think it is because the world sees Europe and especially Germany as the big oppressor and murderer of Jews. If the Nakba had happened in Germany and Jews had taken part of Germany to make a country, I think few would have issues with it. But in Palestine Jews and Muslims lived in peace for centuries. They are seen as innocent, or at least far far nicer than Europeans to jews. Therefore, it is unfair for them to suffer the price of European barbarism towards Jews. Imagine I bully you then you go bully some random guy who had nothing to do with it. It would be as unfair as my bullying was. The Holocaust was not a Palestinian action, it was an European action. Europe alone should suffer the consequences of it, not Palestine. See the point?

Because he has often disagreed with me towards this conflict and I did not notice any antisemitism from him. I know antisemitic people so I know what antisemitism looks like.

Israel is an interesting case where they do indeed have a green attitude towards LGBT and veganism. But when it comes to Palestinians, they seem to regress and become classical blue. Hitler was also a vegan and animal lover. So you can be genocidal and also an animal lover at once. I am not saying Israelis are like Hitler, but it is a very clear case of how you can have green attitudes towards some cases and blue attitudes towards others. When it comes to the specific case of Palestinians, I notice a very blue attitude towards Israelis at large. An extreme amount of dehumanization, not taking of any responsibility and little to no empathy. Even towards childreen. To summarize it best, I saw a clip online of an Israeli who lives not far from the Gaza border. He was saying "we love everyone, peace and love to all, all good" etc, your typical hippie green attitude. Then the reporter asked what he thought about the Gaza war His response: "Destroy them all". Israeli morality in a nutshell...

Not at all. He is not Muslim, not Palestinian, nor Arab. Nor does he have some anti Jewish hatred. Meanwhile you are Israeli. It it insane for you to suggest that you two are equally biased when you have so much skin in this game while Leo has none.

To be honest you are the most reasonable and non biased Israeli/pro Israeli person on this forum. I can tell this much.

Do you guys honestly think Ukraine can kick out Russia out of all its territory? Realistically.

Yes, for sure. Gideon Levy and the B'Tselem staff are examples of high moral development. But I fear they represent a small group of people. If Israelis are ONLY protesting for the hostages and not for the tons of civilians dying in Gaza as a result of their military, then sorry but it is not a high moral development society. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/19/jewish-protest-israel-gaza-washington-dc This is an example of high moral development coming from American Jews. How common is this in Israel? Note: Protesting to end the war because you only care about the hostages, is NOT a high moral stand. It is Blue. Green morality which is the case in Western Europe protests for both your own people and the innocents of the enemy group.

I do not see how that justifies their inhumane barbaric actions to be honest.

I find it hard to believe that you think Israel has the same moral development as a society as Sweden or Belgium. UK had terrorist attacks regarding Northen Ireland. I did not see them do what Israel did to Gaza nor what is doing in Lebanon. Ukraine was invaded by Russia yet they have not treated Russian POWs like Israel has treated Palestinian POWs. So "being at war" or "attacked" are not excuses for a highly developed society to do such atrocities. Fair.

Israeli oppression kills just like Hamas did in Israel. That is what I meant.

The people in Israel which were killed on October 7th chose the Israeli government and politicians. Every citizen in Israel knows that when you oppress others, they will fight back. It was inevitable that once Palestine for obvious reasons wanted to break out from the oppression, innocent people will die. This is my truth based on tons of research and proof.

I thought Israel is a liberal democracy with Western values. I do not see Belgium or Sweden use rape in this way.

By the way does Israel get a kick out of bombing hospitals in every war they fight or? I saw they are bombing hospitals in South Lebanon and killing medial staff there too. Why?

It is interesting that Armenians which went through a brutal genocide themselves during WW1, do not have this victim identity that Jews have from the holocaust. Nor do they get much sympathy from the world unlike Jews. How come? I mean ok, Holocaust was 6 times more people but 1-1.5 million killed is not peanuts. Also similar proportion of the population were killed in the Armenian genocide as with the Holocaust.

Leo do you plan to do a video on "What is terrorism" where you explain this at length and give concrete examples. Perhaps it can be released on your blog if you are scared to put it on Youtube. I think it would hopefully change the attitude of many people on this forum among others that are not on this forum.