Karmadhi

Finally something we can 100% agree on. Now you understand why Hamas is so cruel. 75 years of occupation makes them hate all Israelis because they see them all as Zionist murderers. You have some insight now into the Hamas psyche which is not much different from that of the IDF.

Also Israelis as Leo said call everyone working in Gaza as Hamas. That makes more sense than Israeli propaganda. A surgeon operating on kids is Hamas to IDF.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeasHwFW/ They re making the Nazis seem soft

They seem to be the norm in Gaza unfortunately. I can also say some Hamas people kill civilians too. Not every Hamas is like that etc same logic More reports https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeas6tas/ It seems they switch from targeting Hamas to targeting healthcare staff

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeap2pQv/ Hmmm @Nivsch https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeagwavn/ Tell me, how is this better than what Hamas did?

@Nivsch It was in tik tok. I have it on my phone but I use this on pc. If I find something similar I will send it here no worries.

So every international organization is lying because you know couple of guys? Dont make me laugh I saw a clip on Tik tok of a young guy in Gaza, maximum 14 year old. He had 1 arm and looked like a skeleton. From Al Shifa Hospital. He said he was beaten and abused a lot by the IDF. Regardless of what he says, when you have a 14 year old kid missing an arm starved you know this is some evil shit. Words are not necessary. Also how come you believe baseless Israeli claims some 40 decapitated babies yet ignore Al Jazeera for being biased. Dont you think Israeli is also biased here? And Al Jazeera is not even Palestinian.

There was also footage about Hiroshima but people thought it was ok. You do not need to be a genious to know civilians are suffering when a nuclear bomb explode over their heads. Neither you need Tik Tok footage when you read that a whole city has become a sea of fire and 35.000 people have died. Its just that back then it was considered a necessary evil, now it is just unacceptable.

I expected people on this forum to be above this. It seems they are not. I have seen many videos of Israelis protesting about what is going on in Gaza, also they have human right organizations denouncing the crimes there. So there is no excuse to not speak up against it. It is just that they have been heavily brainwashed with the idea that ALL people in Gaza want to kill all Israelis and hence they are ALL seen as either the enemy or future enemy (the kids). Now some do, but not all. Just like some Israelis want to wipe out all Gazans but not all Israelis. Both sides have some extreme elements and many moderate elements but each side thinks the extreme elements represent the majority when it does not. There also is plenty of footage of Israelis cheering when missles were launched to attack Gaza (before 2023). So this celebration when the other side suffers goes both ways. It is not just the Gazans that celebrate when Israelis get killed. This whole thing gives me Prisoner dilemma vibes where each side thinks the other wants it dead and hence they increase their brutality 100 fold. It also explains why Hamas is so brutal on Israeli civilians. They probably also think Israelis want to erase Palestine. And this current conflict has made it much worse since extreme components of both sides now are celebrating when the other suffers. Both governements are extremely toxic and composed of those hardcore groups that actually want to wipe out the other group. First step is for them to go and be replaced with more moderate ones. I see Hamas is being slowly destroyed but I do not see much hope that the current hardcore fascist Israeli government being replaced with a moderate one. A radical Gaza government with a moderate Israeli governement will likely result in more terrorist attacks and war. A radical Israeli government with a moderate Gaza government will likely result in human right abuses and borderline terroristic behavior from Israel (like shooting the 12 year old child in West Bank for a ballon). Hence BOTH need to go. Regarding IDF i keep seeing horrible stuff, many of the ones operating in Gaza, are basically pure blue and even indulging in Red behavior.

@Leo Gura Why do you people care so much about how liberal a society is? Just because it can be more liberal does not mean it is the best place to live or maximize well being of its people. Soviet Russia, at least under Stalin was far worse to live in than most Russian Tsars. I did not see 20 million Soviets die under any Russian Tsar in 15 years time for example. I think most people would pick a conservative society that allows them to eat well and not go to prison for no reason than some specific liberal values. Under Soviet rule people went to concertation camp like prisons (gulag) for no reason rather than being denounced by someone with 0 proof. Under other Soviet leaders you can make the case that it was better than Tsars. Ironically Nazi Germany was far better to live in as a German than Soviet Russia was as a Soviet. Most of the Nazi atrocities were done to other non German groups outside the borders of Nazi Germany. Meanwhile Stalin mostly killed his own people, including millions of Russians.

On another note, I saw this very interesting video. It is crazy how far we have come when it comes to morality and what is acceptable in war. I can only imagine if the IDF did this in Gaza the outrage would be out of this world. Yet it used to be textbook military practice. Ironically some hardliners in the Israeli government suggested such thing be done to Gaza "Gaza must turn into Dresden". I wonder if they would be willing to do it, if it was not for the international community. But to go even deeper, even what Hamas did on October 7th used to be textbook military practice. Humanity has come a long way...

@Danioover9000 If it is just words I get them but when you see footage with your own eyes I mean... Ironically they expect us to believe all claims about Hamas atrocities even though not everything has actual footage (like 40 decapitated babies) yet they choose to ignore footage in Gaza. Crazy

@Nivsch You can see the footage with your own eyes. Someone with hand tied then shot is a war crime regardless Hamas or not. And I doubt they would be Hamas, Hamas would die fighting. Ironically when Russia did a similar thing in Bucha, everyone lost their shit. Hypocrisy at its finest. My bet is that they assume everyone there is Hamas and they just kill them "to be sure" since Hamas does not have a proper uniform to identify them like other armies do. Ironically Hamas said the same thing for October 7th, "we killed people in the crossfire, it was chaos, etc". So both use similar lies to justify their atrocities.

Those are the only ones that are there at the moment. Israel does not allow others to enter Gaza. You can see the footage with your own eyes. Someone with hand tied then shot is a war crime regardless Hamas or not. And I doubt they would be Hamas, Hamas would die fighting. Ironically when Russia did a similar thing in Bucha, everyone lost their shit. Hypocrisy at its finest.

The journalists and reporters that are there.

What does that have to do with what I said? Having couple hamas guys there and what I wrote are different variables. Did Hamas force them to tie the hands of civilians and shoot them? Did Hamas force them to set civilian houses in fire with people still inside? Did Hamas force them to destroy an entire hospital which is illegal instead of just sending guys there and neutralizing the threat?

Thanks for sharing

I saw a very disturbing video showing murdered people with tied hands and people ran over by bulldozers, setting fire to buildings with sick people still inside etc. Israel’s war on Gaza live: Israeli army ‘executed’ civilians at al-Shifa | Israel War on Gaza News | Al Jazeera I think IDF now has reached the same level of barbarity and brutality of Hamas. They are no longer modern army but more a systematic horde of brutality. Sad how humans can become such animals. How is the IDF not a terrorist organization yet baffles me.

Damn that is quite harsh. I thought USA had some good leaders which made it such a powerful country.

Thank you for the response. I am curious, which are some of your favourite US presidents? Especially in the last 30 years or so.

Is this guy credible? He seems to rate Regan A, I thought Regan was not that good?

@Leo Gura What do you think of Obama? I have heard you call Bush a buffon, Trump a corrupt buffon and Biden you seem to have a moderate opinion of. Regarding Obama do you think he did a good job? I have seen comments about him going from "worst" to "best" US president of recent times.

Online it is said to be a right wing party. And how has that worked out so far for Israel? October the 7th, endless barrage of rockets, terrorist attacks and massive hatred of Jews and Israelis through the world. Even the strongest allies of Israel like USA or UK are for the two state solution. I think it is the way to go. Also Isarelis like Havari are for the two state solution. The ultimate way to solve this cursed conflict is to enable both sides to co exist next to each other in peace. Giving Palestinians a state is one of the steps towards true peace.

And who put them in power? Israel is a democracy is it not? You keep ignoring the fact that these people were DEMOCRATICALLY elected. Hence they represent the will of Israelis, otherwise they would not get votes. Since Israel is a democracy, everything that the government does is directly a responsibility of the people at large that elected them. It is not like Iran where the people are held hostage and the government is not really accountable to its people. And I am not just talking about Ben gvir and smotrich. Also Bibi has been in power for like 15 years or something no? How come? That whole Likud party of his is a bunch of fascists. Who elected them? Why didnt Israelis largely elect the liberals you keep talking about? Even Bennet does not seem much better, I saw some old interviews of his before this war, justiying annexing West Bank over religious nonsense. The only sensible Israeli prime minister seems to be the one that got assassinated by extremists over the two state issue. Also that justice minister lady that abolished Palestinian childreen being put in cages. Why so little of these and so much of radical fascists?

Please read what I wrote in more detail. I will write it again in brackets "Nobody is saying ALL Israelis are bad nor IDF soldiers are bad, but a part of IDF including high command people". What you said can co exist with what I said. Also as you said, you live in a liberal town. If you lived in a overly conservative town perhaps the IDF there would be different. You dont need 100% of soldiers to be war criminals, even 20% is enough to wreck havoc. However the issue here is high command more than individual soldiers, if the high command is loose about war crimes then it will give room for atrocities to occur. Ben Gvir literally gave an apploud to a soldier that shot a 12 year old boy in the West Bank. A normal country would have that person either trialed or at least discharged. If such behaviour is encouraged people will do it. Israel security minister praises officer for shooting dead 12-year-old | BBC News (youtube.com) And before you say "not all Israelis are like that nor support that"; well not all Germans supported Goebbels yet he was democratically elected. Such is this guy. Neither do all Palestinians support Hamas.