Karmadhi

@Nivsch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba It is clearly defined as ethnic cleansing.

Israelis kicked out illegally 700.000 Palestinians, so it is perfectly realistic to kick out those Israelis that do not belong there (In West Bank) and are in principle violators of international law (aka criminals). Nobody is killing them. If you build a house in an area that you cannot built, it is governmental right to demolish it and not reimburse you. Go build in Central Park and see what happens to you for example. You can apply the same standard here, if you want to actually respect the law as the democracy you claim to be. And if you really feel so bad for them, Israel can reimburse them or build housing for them. Regarding "not secure borders physically", perhaps you can elaborate on that because I am not clear.

You are talking about last 100 years, I am talking stuff from 1000 years ago. Since for Israelis, history from 2000 years ago is relevant, I am using that time frame. Obviously in the last 100 years Ukraine and Russia are not the same thing. But at 500 AD from what I saw they were same tribes. And why did Jews get like 60% of the land when they were 2x less? Why not give them 30%? Also in 1947 there were tons of Jews put there, if you see in 1920 for example the ratio was like 10 to 1. But even if we use 1947 demographics, it is still an unfair split. I think tons in Poland were salty about it but could not do anything. Also I saw they list slightly more than they gained. Including historical Polish cities. It is Israel fault for that. They funded and pushed for Hamas and tried to sabotage the more moderate Palestinian parties. There is concerte proof of that. So maybe ask Bibi to start supporting moderate Palestinians over Hamas. He did that so you can tell me here that "Palestinians are violent and they do not want peace blla blla". https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/ A compromise is a proper Palestinian state within 1967 borders. If they start war again as a soverign state, then we will not cry here about war crimes as much. Your logic is: Let Palestinians live in terror and oppression so Israelis can live at peace. Not only that is super biased, but that attitude leads to terrorist attacks and Israelis do not leave at peace even. Loss loss. Support a Palestinian government that is pro co existance and two states, give them full independence and support and you will have a proper solution. But that will entail tons of illegal settlers being kicked out which Israel does not want. They want peace and to steal land. You cannot have both.

Bro they are the same ethnicity, Slavs. Same religion too. Even langugages are similar. They come from the same place, wherever it is. Too similar they are. We call them different now because things change throughout the times. Bro no Christian countries left. Only some hardcore Islam ones like Iran and Saudi. Even countries like Egypt, Morocco etc are secular. They have civil law, not Sharia law. And all Christian countries have civil law. There were like millions living in the land called Palestine which Jews kicked out in mass in 1948. Two state then. Sure Never claimed otherwise. I just challenge your proposals that is all. Gaza and West Bank are not Israel. Israel has clearly defined borders. If you want to expand them, then you are breaking international law and are an invader. You think other countries do not have land that historically could have belonged to them? Half of Poland was given to USSR, half of my own country was stolen by our neighboors and the natives got kicked out or assimilated. We are not starting wars and illegally annexing land. Nether is Poland. Israel is fine as it is.

@Leo Gura However, I also heard about another argument. It says that the main reason that caused to Hamas to attack Israel when they did was because of the Abraham accords which were forged under Trump. Those accords did not take Palestinian statehood into account and therefore they attacked to avoid their signing. Using this argument, Trump is a big factor that the attack happened in the first place. So, it is a mess. One side blames Biden, another Trump Sorry, this part I posted when you were replying so maybe you did not see it. I am not aware of all the details. I am writting here the arguments I hear Pro Trump people use a lot. Even people from the Middle East want him to win because they think he will make the region safe again. I guess Trump got lucky with no wars starting under him and now he uses that chance to take the merit for it even if it is not his. I really wonder though how Trump would have reacted if Putin invaded Ukraine under his watch. If he would have pushed Zelensky to accept the peace agreement in Istanbul in 2022 which was mediated by Turkey and Israel. Mearsheimer talks often about it.

They are doing it with Russia, they froze like 300 billion dollars worth of assets and are using it to fund Ukraine.

The argument I heard is that Biden unfroze billions of frozen assets to Iran and overall Iran started to do better under Biden economically. Under Trump Iran was heavily struggling economically. And Iran funds Hamas which enables them to do an effective attack. However, I also heard about another argument. It says that the main reason that caused to Hamas to attack Israel when they did was because of the Abraham accords which were forged under Trump. Those accords did not take Palestinian statehood into account and therefore they attacked to avoid their signing. Using this argument, Trump is a big factor that the attack happened in the first place. So, it is a mess. One side blames Biden, another Trump.

At this point, maybe it is better to let Russia have those lands of Ukraine it has and end the war once and for all. But I am unsure about it. What do you think about what I wrote?

Yes. But under Trump the attack maybe would not have happened. Now for Gaza Trump will be worse. Unsure about Ukraine.

To be honest Biden handling of both Ukraine and Gaza war has been absolutely horrible. With Gaza he has supported mass murder of civilians and with Ukraine has damaged with relations with Russia to 1960s levels risking a war with Russia, not to count prolonging a war that is killing endless.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-republicans-god-intervention-00168108 Guys is this for real? Please some American here explain to me, do american POLITICANS really believe in this shit or it is just being used for political support?

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-megachurch-sermons-00168146 Not gonna lie, when they tried to kill Hitler in 1944, he was convinced God protected him and he was the chosen one, making him even more stubborn than before. Same seems to happen here. https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-republicans-god-intervention-00168108

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/14/trump-shooting-megachurch-sermons-00168146 You guys were right, he is being elevated to Prophet status now As a non American, this is hilarious to me

THANK YOU Leo I thought the same watching his debates, they really got into me as very biased.

So many people have this idea that Trump would not have allowed the war in Ukraine and Israel to happen. They say his strong leadership will end wars and put peace in the world. The fact that during his term no wars started (factual) and under Biden tons of shit happened, is the proof they use. Also Biden horrible mental state does not help. It gives him a lot of bonus points, he otherwise would not have had.

You seem very spoiled and entitled. Basically you are denying basic rights to millions so you can have the official holidays and food you like. Try living as a Palestinian in the West Bank where they live like Jews did under Nazis meanwhile you complain about first world issues. Why should that Jewish state be there though? If Saudi is so sparsley populated, they could have made it there, nobody would be kicked out. Everyone happy. And thing is, if your country gets wiped out, you will not care that there are 21 other Arab states, you care about YOUR state. It is like saying, lets wipe out Serbia because we got 100 other Christian states. Or 6 other Balkan states. Flawed logic in my opinion. Your population transfer argument does not apply here because you want Palestinian state to be wiped out, not just change populations. Greece, Poland for example were not gone as countries. They still exist. This is stage blue fundamentalism which is below the level of development of Leos work and this forum. I will not argue with you on it. Your logic is that what happened 2000 years ago is relevant for today. 1000 years ago, Russia and Ukraine were 1 country, Kievan Rus. Google it. If we go with the land origins of 2000 years ago (which is when Jews lived in Israel in mass as they say), then Russia and Ukraine also 1000 years ago were 1 state. So lets merge them again.

True but keep in mind that the countries themselves still existed. With your solution, Palestine will cease to exist. A better comparison would be for all Greeks going to Turkey and Greece ceasing to exist. Praise Bibi for funding Hamas via Qatar. Look, personally I do not have much personal affection to any piece of land so your solution seems ok. I would maybe agree to it personally. Issue is most of the world sees it as theft and ethnic cleansing. They will never agree to it. By your logic, Russia should kick out all Ukranians and take their land. Ukraine is not any less Russian than West Bank and Gaza are Israeli. Yet the whole world defends Ukraine. Why these double standards? Also, why not flip the script for a moment. Take all the Jews in the US and they can live happily there. Why should Jews have priority over that land? It is not any more Jewish than Arab Muslim. So your solution is not bad from a purely humanitarian sense if you have 0 attachment to land, but in the real world it cannot work. Also, you are not willing to do it yourself, yet you wish it on others. Your logic is: I will take your home and buy you another one, but I would not move out of my home if someone offered to kick me out but buy another home. Hope it is clear.

To be honest you attacked them first and you kidnaped them first. You started it.

ahahahahhaahahahahahahahahha i love this But what if the Arabs refused to take them? Would you declare war on them? You know Israel wanted to do this from the start but the Arabs refused so the Gazans were stuck there. How would you solve it?

Proof? As far as I saw it is unclear who killed who. There is footage of Hamas killing people but it does not amount to 1200 people overall.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyx0qdkn45eo Jesus just saw this.. Attack on a HUMANITARIAN SAFE ZONE and Israel claims it was done to kill 1 Hamas guy. So to kill 1 (assuming they are not lying) they sacrificed 80 people "Pieces of bodies of kids reported". When will this barbarity end...

@Nivsch By the way how come when Hamas kills Israelis you loose your shit, but when IDF does as it has been reveled by the Israeli press these past days, you seem not to care nor mention it here. Or is it ok when IDF does it? You realize it is still murder... Same goes for @Vrubel @hundreth @Gennadiy1981

The issue with the IDF is their unnecessary cruelty and racism. Nobody has issues with them existing, but the way they operate needs to change. Also them being mixed with religious idiots does not help.

To be honest I was expecting them to look much worse. They seem well fed and have no bruises or signs of torture. Nor have they reported any. Much better treatment than how Israel treats their Palestinian captives. I was expecting a beaten up skeleton with bruises to come out. Not this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_Levy @Vrubel An example of a true Israeli patriot An example of "Humanity s best" that you often use as a term (i like the term) Massive respect to him. He reminds me of those Germans that wanted to kill Hitler because of his atrocities.