Karmadhi

The land used to be part of the British mandate and it was theirs to do as they please. What do you mean by legally? Palestinians had no say in it. They wanted their land because their bible idolizes it. LOL, it was called Palestine and it was all Arabs with muslims being the majority. Not European land. There is a speech by Hitler given in 1939 where he reads a letter written to him by FDR telling him "not to attack these countries". One of them is Palestine. So it was indeed a state, at least in the eyes of FDR. Now you can say the national identity was not there, sure. But that land had a name. Also Putin saw an opportunity to make Russia and Ukraine 1 again and he took it. Now we are also cool with Putin it seems. If they hadnt then it would have been more understandable I guess the Israeli position. But I wish the Arabs had not declared war at all and this issue to have been solved. I think Arabs were on the wrong to declare war and then Jews went too far with the Nakba and did countless horrible atrocities. I have heard testimonies of Israeli soldiers that fought at that time and they were very very disturbing. They seemed to find it funny. They openly said that great injustice was done to the Arabs at the time. So both sides have blame. I dont either. A two state solution is the best way forward. The issue is that Israel is blocking it at the moment. Spain Norway Ireland just recognized Palestine some days ago and Israel got mad and expelled ambassadors. Even 10 years ago when Sweden recognized Palestine, Israel got mad. They do not want a proper Palestinian state. That is the issue.

They suffered a holocaust by Europeans. Why should Arabs have to pay for it? Give them a part of Germany and nobody would have complained. Arabs feel rightfully angry at having to pay for European devilry. Regarding Jews being expelled, perhaps it is true, however it is so long ago it does not justify them claiming the land now. By that logic Putin is right to claim all of Ukraine since 1000 years ago Ukraine and Russia were 1 entity (Kievan Rus). See how absurd the logic is? Then the UN partition plan should have given them 1/3 of the land, not 60%. Also a lot of Jews were dumped there by the UK from 1910 onward which is why 1/3 of them were Jewish. But sure, give them 1/3 of the land, not 60%. That was indeed wrong but it was a consequence of Israel ethnic cleansing. But it was wrong, it is not something to defend. It was against Jewish nationalism and all the devilry that would come from it. It seems he was right when I see Ben Gvir as a minister. That is irrelevant, the people who lived there and got kicked out or have lesser rights is still painful. A British guy that has never set foot on Israel but allegedly his ancestors were from there 2000 years ago, can claim Israeli passport and live there with all rights meanwhile a Palestinian whose ancestors have lived in that land for centuries cannot claim citizenship and have lesser rights. Cant you see how absurd that is?

Basically Arabs say Israel is not a state, meanwhile Israelis defend themselves by going back to Kindoms of Judea and other stuff dating back over 3000 years. Then Israelis will say Palestine is not a state, meanwhile Palestinians will defend themselves by going back to 1920s and 1930s where you had the "Palestinian Mandate" which even Roosevelt indirectly recognized as a country on a Hitler's speech in 1939. Clown show.

I think this is a bit of a lie though. I have spoken with many hardcore Arabs about this. Basically they want their LAND back. Not to wipe out Jews, they do not care about Jews per say. It is about LAND. If Israel magically gave Palestine back all their land from the 1947 mandate, I think they would stop hating you guys so much. They basically see the whole 1947 UN partition plan as bullshit done by the US/UK and do not see it as legit. That is why Arabs went to war with Israel. There were already jews living in that piece of land and things were fine. They were treated quite well and they lived in harmony with the muslims there. Everything started going to shit when European Jews came there and then it became a melting pot of random nationalities claiming Israeli citizenship. If that land was only kept for Arab Jews within an Arab country, I think Jews there would have been fine. Fundamentally the issue here is not Jews, but ZIONISM. If you are a non Zionist Jew you will be loved more by Arabs than being a non Jewish Zionist. But that is my interpretnation. Now with this Gaza war, you will have an entire generation of Palestinians wanting to kill you and an entire generation of youth around the world despising Israel and calling it a genocidal terrorist disgusting country. The damage done to Israeli reputation is as large as the damage done to Gaza materially.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/knesset-member-walks-back-on-facebook-post-calling-palestinian-kids-little-snakes This is from a politican. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240314-ben-gvir-backs-police-who-killed-child-in-jerusalem/ Another one. I also saw tons of soldiers that were in live streaming with Palestinians saying this type of stuff. Also random Israelis. Also some people on show medias. I do not have direct sources right now to send you. But i saw dozens of these examples. Yes. Israel does not care and often targets civilians on purpose. Or it is willing to basically destroy entire buildings to get 1 guy. Can you send some sources for that. Never heard that. I can imagine a 15 year old guy might, but I am talking here about kids younger than 10. The median age dead is 5 year old according to a norwegian study. https://www.instagram.com/p/Czkqdv0tKAf/

@hundreth Thank you a lot for your explanation. I just find it hard to understand when Israelis say "Babies are terrorists" and stuff like that. I can understand that adults or teenagers want you dead, but when you call a 3 year old terrorist, I cannot understand that. A 2 year old does not know anything. The rest was spot on, thank you.

I have some questions to ask you, if you do not mind. I am really curious. First, what is the public opinion of the war, especially now. What do Israelis think about the countless war crimes they are accused of and especially for the footage that comes out of Gaza of dead kids. Secondly, is the desire for revenge still there or is it mostly gone after 7 months of war. I could imagine at the beginning it was very high. Lastly and most importantly, why do I see so many videos of soldiers being happy about destroying Gaza, killing people etc, including also political analyst etc. How does an IDF person rationalize it when they snipe a child (I saw footage of a dead kid who had been sniped in his head). This is an educated society with a functioning democracy and wealth. How can they degrate into such animalistic type behavior? Especially when most of them have not been personally affected by the Hamas attacks. Even if they have, it is not like with Hamas fighters who many were orphans (much higher degree of being impacted by the enemy). USA had terrorist attacks happen to it, so did UK, France and Spain. But never have I seen such hatred and collective moral degradation of a whole first world rich educated society. I am really curious to understand.

Wait, are you Israeli?

I am not an expert but I think "destroyed" means either if the actual building is gone (razed to the ground as people say) or damaged beyond repair so it has to be demolished. "Damaged" means that the building is most likely no longer usable by people to live in (or conduct human activities) but it can still be repaired. Note that repairing a building costs money so sometimes it is actually cheaper to just demolish it and build a new one. It depends on the type of building. For example in Germany after WW2 it was cheaper to demolish the beautiful European style buildings that were damaged and instead build some cheap ugly ones Soviet style. Reconstruction of that type of building takes a long time and money since they have a lot of details in them. In Gaza I think its cheap buildings so perhaps it might be feasible to repair some, but it still has a cost and the place is now basically broke. I think the aid will go first to repair essential stuff like hospitals, schools, etc which are gone now.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/rebuilding-bombed-gaza-homes-may-take-80-years-un-says-2024-05-02/

Sure, this is the most recent I could find. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/7/israels-war-on-gaza-six-relentless-months-of-death-and-destruction It says 62% of all buildings in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed or 290.000 housing units leaving more than a million people homeless. Eight of every 10 schools in Gaza are damaged or destroyed, according to UNICEF. As many as 625,000 students have no access to education. All hospitals have suffered critical damage, with only 10 out of 36 able to function partially but they are increasingly overburdened. Note, this is from April 7th, so almost 2 months ago. Considering that this was before Rafah which now is being daily bombed the current values are higher. Also I saw they are bombing the north again due to Hamas regrouping there.

It is not exaggerating when you have 70%+ of all buildings in Gaza destroyed (and the war is not done). I am not saying they do it in 1 night, they do it slowly over time but in the end everything is gone. It is like a death by 1000 small cuts, it adds up on time. If you see the ruins of Gaza it does not look much different from cities like Dresden. I never claimed that they do it in 1 single night, but they are indeed bombing everything at Gaza gradually over time. 1 block today, 1 block tomorrow, 1 school today, 1 university the next week. All universities in Gaza are destroyed, almost all the schools, most hospitals have been bombed. This is what I meant.

Me too, especially from the EU

@Hatfort Beautifully said man. You do not need to go further than to hear the genocidal statements made by many high ranking Israeli politicians to see what is going on there.

Bombing everything on sight is not much different than shooting everything on sight. I do agree that Hamas is stage Red mostly but from what I have seen their actions looked more like a stage blue thing. Israel tried to portray them as Stage Red to gain sympathy but now a lot of the things they said have either been debunked or simply lacked evidence. Some things stage Red does is: Kill someone by beheading (no footage of someone actually being beheaded alive), Tie people and burn them alive (No footage of that either even though Israel claimed it happened) etc. I have seen the footage that is out there and what I basically saw is their militants going in and shooting everyone they saw on sight. That is basically a Nazi SS approach. Stage Red and what Israel tried to portray is a Mongolian/Viking approach. There is no footage to back that up. It is indeed a war crime and should be condemened, I am not denying it. But it is not a Stage Red type of approach. Stage Red would have released footage of crucified people, people being paraded without heads or people being trampled by cars etc. This is how stage Red acts. For EG Isis showed live beheadings and showed people being excecuted by being put in a cage and burned alive. I did not see any footage like this. The worst thing I saw is a German Jewish girl being paraded in Gaza, her body seemed intact but it was clear she was killed by the point she was being paraded. That is a Stage Red type of action. Regarding rape, I am sad to say it basically happens in every war. US troops did it, Russians do it, Israelis do it (Plenty of reports of rape in Gaza and even before in Israeli prisons), so it is still a common thing. Israel is not above Hamas when it comes to rape. I can send plenty of sources to back that up. However, Hamas did seem to have done rape too. Now, if you have seen footage or concrete proof that shows more than what I said, I am very open to seeing it and changing what I wrote here.

There is a case on the interntional criminal court citing most of this stuff. That is enough proof to at least consider it. What proof do you have for Hamas beheading babies? If you want to play the source game, two can play at that.

I saw the video this morning, it is horrible. The baby was beheaded from the blast and his body was totally burned. Horror movie shit.

Leo this is not the first time this stuff happens. There are hundreds of such incidents to the point where it becomes clear that it is a system issue, not just a mistake. You cannot have 15.000 kids only be mistakes. If this was an isolated event it would be totally another story. Israel has one of the most modern armies, tons of aid, very educated and intelligent population. Why is their army not professional? For Osama I would not but for someone like Hitler I might consider. Again, this has nothing to do with the current situation. Israel can send elite special forces there to take care of it if they want. Or just wait for another opportunity when the guy is not in a dense area like this. Rarely you get the "only way" situations in real life. Lastly since you brought up the Gaza density. PRECISELY because it is so dense, bombing it like hell is a bad idea. And it does not even work. Hamas knew this would happen so they built tons of deep tunnels and therefore they are safe inside them. In 7 months, Israeli highest estimate is that around 20% of Hamas has been killed. If they were actually serious they would have sent some elite units in the tunnels to drag them out. But of course they are cowards and prefer to bomb kids and just starve everyone.

Hamas also said it was not their aim to kill civilians on October 7th. Every leader will say that, it is normal. If you trust Bibi might as well trust this guy too. Bottom line is that you see people's actions not words. 15.000 kids dead is action.

I have not seen this type of horrible footage nor such a high death toll in such a short time. Neither a famine. US has indeed supported the Saudi made famine in Yemen but did not itself cause it. Even here they are pushing for more aid to come in. Israel is the one being defiant. United States invasion of Afghanistan - Wikipedia This is the US direct response to 9/11. Around 2000 civilians dead, 15 times less than here. War in Afghanistan (2001–2021) - Wikipedia This is the whole war which lasted 20 years. In 7 months in Gaza we have close to 30.000 civilians dead, here in 20 years we have 46.000 from ALL sides. You cannot compare. And US is not the most angelic person anyway. Of course not. Especially if they were minors. If they were adults and directly aided him then they are legit targets. If they were 8 year old boys then it is horrible since they are innocent. But I saw they were adults so it is not the same as killing a baby. Issue here is scale. Israel killed close to 80 people to take out 1 senior Hamas guy in November. Here they killed more than 40 to take out 2 Hamas guys. The ratios are crazy. And these are not even the top top Hamas people. Imagine if Hamas had 1 supreme leader like Osama was. They would not hestitate to kill 1000 civilians to get him. Meanwhile US killed around 5 civilians to get Osama. Israel has been reported to permit up to 20 civilians being killed to take out 1 standard Hamas operator. For senior members, up to 100 civilians were ok to be killed with him. Totally different ball game.

Just like Israelis describe Palestinians being "terrorists that engage in violence" are the majority, but the reverse is true.

I am not attacking him personally. I do not know this guy. I am asking you, since he is there what does he think about the stuff I mentioned above? Since he might be surrounded by the people that are doing those horrible stuff. Would be interesting to see the POV of someone in there from the IDF side. If he is a good person, then that makes it even more interesting.

In which part of Gaza? What has he said about Hamas regrouping and attacking in the North, even though it was considered "cleared". Also, what does he say about the countless videos online showing IDF people mocking the destruction in Gaza

We are not saying that it is genocide because of that. Israel whole premise was that Hamas "burned and beheaded babies" but never actually showed any footage of it. Meanwhile here we are all seeing live footage of literally the same thing Hamas allegedly died. From what I researched there was 1 baby in total that died on the attacks meanwhile in just this attacked more than 1 baby died. So it is really ironic that Israel is doing the same thing that it blasted Hamas for doing and not showing any evidence to back it up. They have already showed plenty of intention with their speeches which is why there is an ICJ and ICC case to begin with. I did not see US carpet bomb the whole town where Osama has hiding. They launched a very precise military operation with soldiers that shot him personally. Israel could have done the same here. Why didnt they? You should tell this to Israelis that justify 15.000 childreen killed because of imaginary babies beheaded. Fundamentally the ICJ openly stated that this assault should stop 2 days ago and now Israel not only does not back off, but does this. It is a legit war crime. Israel does recognize the ICJ authority (unlike the ICC), and therefore every single civilian death on Rafah from now is a legit war crime. Not "collateral damage", when the whole offensive has been deemed illegal from a body that Israel does recognize. Not much different from what Putin is doing from a legal pov (they also told Putin Russia should stop the war in Ukraine and he kept going despite).

What do they gain from Israel? You said "billions of weapons sold". So does Ukraine, so does Saudi. I do not see this type of support for them. USA used to be quite antisemetic until the end of the second world war (they did not allow many Nazis to be trialed for war crimes). What changed so much?