Karmadhi

Israel now has killed around 40 times more civilians than Hamas did. If it was 10 it would not be as bad.

It is clear as day that Israel is not just trying to wipe out Hamas but also do a huge collective punishment campaign on the entire Gaza population. Mearsheimer said it best here. If IDF would really want, the civilian death toll would be far lower and the destruction far less than it is. Not to mention the entire famine. I struggle to understand how people on this forum including Leo sometimes can call it anything else than terrorization of an entire population and punishment. "Just because they have not nuked Gaza" does not mean you cannot mass murder civilians in other ways.

To be honest Leo brought it up this time, not me. If there is clear evidence then ok. Still, I find the idea ridiculous to take land because it was yours 3000 years ago. Or better said, I find it ridiculous to do that and then act like you are moral and stuff. To justify it basically. Just say "We need land so we took it, no choice". Then it would be your typical conquest which happened all the time in history. Nothing new there.

Would you say there is a difference in breaking international law and lying in general between Russia and Israel? People say Israel is a democracy and hence is more trustworthy and "moral" than Russia, but isnt a democracy just a way to elect people? I always thought that respecting human rights is independent of the method that you choose to elect those in power. I say this because I notice that Russia makes the same claims as Israel (we bomb schools because Ukranians troops hide there etc), yet nobody believes them. Meanwhile when Israel says the same thing, people trust it. When it comes to rule of law which is indeed stronger in a democracy, I have rarely seen IDF soldiers be tried for war crimes or go to jail. Recently there was the scandal with the IDF guy that raped Palestinians in prison and filmed it and the guy was released and now is shown in tv shows as a celebrity. So how exactly is being a democracy a benefit for Israel when it comes to being moral army or trustworthy?

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240507-unlike-anything-we-have-studied-gaza-s-destruction-in-numbers https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/immense-scale-gaza-killings-amount-crime-against-humanity-un-inquiry-says-2024-06-12/ https://apnews.com/article/biden-israel-hamas-oct-7-44c4229d4c1270d9cfa484b664a22071 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/18/systematic-torture-to-be-palestinian-in-an-israeli-prison https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-rights-group-says-palestinian-prisoners-subject-systematic-abuse-2024-08-05/ https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2024/08/30/732353/10,300-West-Bank-Palestinians-arrested-by-Israel-since-Gaza-war-onset--Rights-group https://theintercept.com/2024/08/09/israel-prison-sde-teiman-palestinian-abuse-torture/ I sent sources to prove that I am not making anything up nor exaggerating. There are countless reports showing it. In the West Bank where there is no Hamas they do countless times raids on middle of night and abduct randomy civilians and terrorize their homes. I seen interviews from ex IDF personnel saying they did raids on houses which they knew were not involved with anything dodgy just to keep them in line (aka terrorize them). Skip to third minute. I saw they have close to 8000 Palestinians in jails at the moment, more than half without charges nor trials. What are them but hostages? I am not saying IDF are Nazis or Mongols, but by far the most brutal and inhumane army among first world countries, on par with countries like Russia. And even if Hamas is worse, does that mean Israel is also not awful? We can agree both are depraved enough to the point where they go to terrorism. You can have 2 terrorists fighting each other. If 1 side is more terrorist than the other is irrelevant once both cross a certain line. My point has never been that Israel is worse than Hamas, but that Israel in its own right is horrible. Nothing more. Just like Stalin was slightly better than Hitler but still awful on his own right, and they fought agaisnt each other.

Neither will Palestinian stubbornness and unwillingness to be dominated by Israel. They would rather die than surrender. Either give them a state or live in fear forever. Your choice.

Israel will not let me go there as a normal citizen and if I go with some aid group, they will murder me if I try to help them like they murdered Kitchen food staff

You can say the same about Israel having the right to defend itself but using terrorist tactics too. I see a lot more agreement that Hamas are terrorists than Israelis are even though they have broken every war law that exists out there at this point. That those people that were put on Palestine were the descenders of the Jews from 3000 years ago. I am sure during the last 3000 years they mixed so much with Europeans that they stopped having any sort of resemblence to the original historical Jews and therefore are not entitled to that land at all. The whole idea that you are entitled to some land because people with your religion came from there is absurd to begin with. They can say "We need land so we will take it, better us than you have it". That would be honest. Is there any proof that Israelis these days, most of them have much ancestry to those people from back then? What if Palestinian Arabs are the real and in time they converted to Islam? That would make more sense to me to be honest. Ideally it should have been established in a sparsely populated area so large groups of people would not need to be kicked out or forced to live under another's rule. Also somewhere with a less strong sense of nationalism/religion. Middle East is quite uncompromising when it comes to this stuff I feel.

Bernie is also anti establishment type of guy, even more than Trump I would say. How come Trump is so much more popular than Bernie? Both are anti establishment but the differnence is that Bernie policies benefit 90% of the population while Trump policies do not.

So why did he choose Trump over Kamala? Curious.

To show that Israeli claims to that land are not based on truth They could have made a Jewish state somewhere else where they would not get this backlash. There were countless proposed places to build a Jewish state, and they chose the worst one. That is the root cause of all this bullshit.

Fair points. However the Supreme Court ruling for him not paying Daniels was quite a ridiculous charge. You have Bush illegally invading another country (resulting in the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents), you have Obama illegally attacking Libya and getting away with it and Trump got charged for some stupid thing. It made him more popular than anything. They should have either charged him with a serious offense or nothing. If you apply such a harsh standard, then the entire Congress should go to jail.

Do you genuinely believe he will install a dictatorship in the US or just regress democracy but still maintain at its core a democracy? I never seen you so worried about elections before, with Biden vs Trump in 2020 you seemed a lot chiller. And it was still Trump back then for the second term. I can understand the worry because we had the EU elections some months ago and many of my French friends were worried a lot that Le Pen would win (Trump European version) so I can understand it. But considering this same situation was in 2020, I saw you a lot chiller back then, idk.

They are key politicans, what you mean? "Moderates" like Gantz are irrelevant since they are not in government. The current Israeli governement has been called as the most far right in its history. I said also Lebanon, UAE. Name me some Arab countries then. Iran and Afghanistan are not Arab countries. I said UAE, Qatar, Lebanon.

@Raze I bombed him with links

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/pm-netanyahu-invokes-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings-what-is-this-hebrew-bible-nation-11698555324918.html https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-bengvir-jerusalem-alaqsa-cd27dfed6d63f4dec3eae2f51ee23ff0 https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/03/09/bezalel-smotrich-the-extremist-settler-is-making-his-mark-on-the-israeli-government_6018684_4.html "Not religious". Yeah right.... https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240705-israeli-soldier-films-himself-blowing-up-gaza-home-in-message-to-his-wife/ Right... Fire versus fire. Blue versus blue. Muslims form 65.5% of the Qatari population, followed by Christians at 15.4%, Hindus at 14.2%, Buddhists at 3.3% UAE: The other main religions present in the country include Christianity (12.9%), Hinduism (6.2%), and Buddhism (3.2%).[34] Zoroastrians, Druze, Baha'i, Judaism, and Sikhism are also practiced by some non-nationals.[36] 1.3% of the population is agnostic.[34] Lebanon is like a 1/3 Christian. Number 1: https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/06/middleeast/israeli-minister-smotrich-starve-gazans-intl/index.html Number 2: Number 3: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-12/ty-article/israeli-security-cabinet-member-calls-north-gaza-evacuation-nakba-2023/0000018b-c2be-dea2-a9bf-d2be7b670000 Number 4: https://mondoweiss.net/2015/10/refreshing-bluntness-shaked/ Number 5: https://www.timesofisrael.com/far-right-minister-calls-for-israel-to-fully-occupy-gaza-reestablish-settlements/ Please, before you lie realize we have the internet and can easily debunk your bs...

I understand.

Are they also an ethnic group or just religious? I find confusing information on that. Maybe in the rural USA. Come to Western Europe. Religion is totally irrelevant here now. I met hundreds of Europeans.

How come the Christian countries in the 20th century, which had long evolved past fundamentalist religion chose Israel as a land based on religious reasons? To me, deciding where a new country should be created should be based on concrete factors, religion is basically irrelevant. Biggest factor in determining a land for Israel to be created would be so nobody was forced in mass to leave their homes.

I find it very unfair that Jews around the world are being shat on because of Israel actions. They should keep the criticism for Israelis only, not for all Jews around the globe. People seem to confuse Zionism with Judaism for some reason.

Hard not to when you are being murdered daily. Israel was murdering hundreds of Gazans every year and that was considering "the norm". Israelis meanwhile these days live comfortable lives and party while their neighbours starve and are bombed. It is a lot more justifiable and understandable for Gazans to hate Israel than Israel to hate Gazans. It boils down to how much are you personally affected. Most Israelis are not affected by Gaza. Most Gaza is affected by Israel.

@Anton Rogachevski LOL. That is like taking a few hardline Ben Gvir supporters and framing it as if the whole Israeli society is like that. I can easily find people just as radical as these ones from Israeli side. There are radical lunatics in every society, especially polarized ones. This clip is a very bad attempt at propaganda. Seek a higher standard at this forum.

Yes I do. Con artists require a good deal of wisdom and objectivity to be spotted out. They are not obvious for the average person to be determined.

I do not follow American politics much since I do not live there. But normally if a guy is openly a massive devil, then the only people that would vote for him are people that operate under the same level. Because they do not see it as devilry, since they are devils themselves. So it means half of Americans operate under the same level as Trump? Or is Trump devilry not as easily visible unless you are developed yourself enough to see it?

Why massive devils have a tendency to get in power? I have noticed it in general when I look at world leaders, both today and historically. Is it because of their charisma? If Trump is as bad as you make him, he is above the development level of most Americans.