Mesopotamian

What happened has happened, Shiite should suck it up, also stage-green people who wish that Islam can be represented by many sects. I don't intend to be rude or disrespectful, but this is how I see it. You don't need to over-think it. The incidents on which Shiite base their arguments demonstrate clearly how the relatives of Muhammed are not meant to inherit his power, cuz when he died, they were busy with his body, while others are busy inheriting his power and continue the power structure going on which is the message of Islam. When you desperately try to make history fits your expectations, it sounds lucrative to me indeed. We have one of the most influential figures in the history of the world by far, inventing one of the most powerful dogmas, and history showed us that most powerful men are eligible to inherit his power (SUNNIS), and you guys are crying over why Shiite are also real Muslims? and in your hearts you wish that Sufis represent real Islam, such a huge delusion.

Thanks, but No, this man looks like a westernized person, he's the last person you need to watch in order to understand more about Islam.

I am trying my best with English a second language, and only introduced to something known as logical or reasonal thinking at age 33 of my life. Early Muslims do, and they memorized all his quotes, and all the Quran until the desperate need for copying through the means of writing presented itself. Exactly the opposite of that. Quran, and Hadith AKA 'Sunnah' , meaning Muhammed's Saying when he wasn't taking whatever weed and producing Quran verses, these are all Muhammed's words, came out of his mouth. They all have similar story for how they have been written, and in close times Gotta be so stupid not to see that. You CANNOT cherry pick and say that Quran is the book, and Muhammed's sayings or Hadith, in which Sunnis based their doctrine on in addition to Quran, you cannot take the Quran and try to find another new interpretation for it, while leaving the Hadith aside. Cuz usually this is how new sects are devised: Step 1: Take The Quran itself. Step 2: Neglect The Hadith, Step 3: Attach your own new interpretation to the Quran. Well What about Hadith? I mean isn't it what came from the Prophet's mouth? I simply and genuinely can't understand! "Real money" is a part of system. I Am not specifically referring to counterfeits here, but let's say any paper with the word 'money' written on it in a big font, and 'legal tender' in a small font, and numbers in the corners. I believe Quran and HAdith AKA Sunnah are one system. It is your choice to take Quran and recite it in a goat yoga class and invent a new sect. Is it going to be real for you? yes, but for me, and for those who can see this system, it is utter craziness.

@Gesundheit Hadith is like the epigenetic of the Quran, they way it should be interpreted and expressed. Shiite want to cancel all of that and keep power for themselves just because their ancestors are relatives of Muhammed. Also lets not forget that the Quran itself was invented as a pass to support Muhammed and enable him to be the prophet and the leader for Islamic nation, so it is all about Muhammed inedeed. The Hadith comes and support that and makes up for a perfect match. Maybe the Hadith was the words of Muhammed when he wasn't under whatever weed he was taking. Anyone can come and device a new Islam for stage-green to believe in and buy it, but the truth is that Quran, Hadith, Muhammed, they are all one, they cannot be divided and cherry-picked on. If you want to understand Islam, you need to take in the whole package as is, and put aside the BS of Shiite, Sufis (I hope this doesn't sounds like a bullet to your ego) .

There's another division of the Islam that's Hadith, or Sunnah, which is all other things that you've mentions that are not in the Quran. Google it.

I can't believe, you sort of like need them to adhere to today's standards? As I've listened to Sunni's defense, they said that writing wasn't a thing, and people were memorizing even the Quran. Some Hadith was written during Muhammed's time. I think you have to entertain the idea that writing wasn't a necessity perhaps? This is Sunni's claim. exactly, cuz islam is Muhammed's Sunnah, and Sunnis are practicing it the way its inventor has intended it to be practiced. Yep, stage-green thinking. They want to believe so desperately that Sufisim represent true Islam or a newer better version. This is absolutely absurd to me. I view my claim that True Islam is what goes according to Sunnah is as valid as your claim that Islam has developed and there's a rare sect bury themselves in the forest or underground can represent real, true Islam. Don't try to simplify the matter and bring your counter argument. You're arguing if I make a counterfeit currency and call it money, then it's going to be as real as "real money"? In the absolute sense it can, but in a specific context, you'll sound crazy.

@Gesundheit Shiite heritage is non-sense as I was talking with member @louhad . The Quran and Muhammed's life IS ONE, or ARE ONE. Sunnizim is a way to document and validate Muhammed's life, and it is sort of a scientific approach to try to extract more meaning from his life, cuz he's the founder of Islam, and then incorporate it with the Quran itself. You just cannot assume that Quran and Muhammed are two separate entities, if you do so, this way, anyone who has the Quran and who invents an interpretation for it is like he/she creating a new branch of Islam. It just doesn't make any sense to separate Quran from Sunnah, attach a new interpretation, and then say here's a new version of Islam. I mean on what basis you are basing this notion? In Christianity for example, we have Jesus who never dictate a book, and tens of bibles were written around his story, nothing solid, all loose stuff, but here we have a different kind of doctrine where it is only valid and called "Islam" when Quran is taken within the narrow variations of Sunnah, other than that is just not Islam, unless you decide it is. You get what I mean? I can get a Quran into a goat yoga class, and recite it while I am doing yoga and the goat on my back, and I call this a new version of Islam. But does this go with the well-documented life, acts and history of Islam's inventor Muhammed?

No you're not getting it. The book and Muhammed's life ARE ONE, or should I say IS ONE. You don't need to say the book can be interpreted through the reader's framework, this means that you throw Muhammed's life (The Sunni literature) in the trash! Can you at least entertain this idea I am telling you for a day before you reply here again?

Sunnah is the "snapshot" of Muhammed's life. It makes sense that combining Quran with Muhammed's own personal life, the founder and probably the inventor of Islam, will make this version more true than id you say combine a Sufi's life with the Quran's teaching. Remember, Quran and Muhammed is one, cuz litteraly the Quran came from Muhammed's own mind, and dictated through his own mouth cavity, using his own vocal chords. In theory, everyone can has his own interpretation Quran, but then if you do so, you're implying that Quran and Muhammed are seperate, are you trying to say that Quran is from God herself? The moral of the story, DO NOT make a new duality by claiming that Quran and Muhammed's life (AKA Prophet's Sunnah) are separate, cuz it is as clear as F*** probably that only during this approach you are able to say there are other also true and valid versions of Islam. Shiite are only valid if: Step one: Seperate Quran from Sunnah. Step two: Claiming that every interpretation of the book can be valid. Again: Truth is that Quran and Sunnah (Prophet's life) ARE ONE. They complete each other, and they are litteraly about the life and what came out of the mouth of the same person, Muhammed. I believe I am hereby challenging you with valid arguments here, so show me your mental muscles, HABIBI

I think there's a difference. Circling of the Ka'ba by Sunnis is nothing like Shitte's blood ralies. The Ka'ba is just a place to practice these rituals, and the rituals seem to be civilized in its nature even with geometric shapes, like the cube, and the circles around it, and don't forget, these are part of the core of the doctrine itself. On the other hand, we have Shitt's blood rallies, they are not a part of the doctrine of Islam, but alien practices, and just the idea of self-torture is regressed and retarded, or in our language (lower on the stages), but somehow, people like yourself would like to see it similar to Sunnis. Sunnis is the only pure Islam by the way. it is NOT a division of Islam, but Sunni doctrine is all about being as accurate as possible to how Muhammed wanted the Islam to be, it is more of a "scientific approach" to achieve the purest form of Islam as intended to be practiced by its founder. Anything rather than that is a diversion and a hoax. How can anybody gives themselves a right to say what, while ignoring what in our hand of heritage by thousands of Muslim scholars that spans over a millennia about the subject ! You ever bothered to read the Sunni heritage? hundreds or even thousands of books that try to keep Islam pure using a scientific based approach. (If Leo considers shamons of 40000 years back as doing a form of science, the Sunnis also have done a great deal of science to define what Islam is and what it isn't)

I've lived among Sunnis for most of my life, like 99.8% of my life probably. I know how Islam works, and Muhammed has set a rigors rules to sort of define the spirit of Islam. Had Muhammed been here, he would have Sufis for example executed, the same Sufis you consider them now a part of the developed Islam, they are NOT. It is just insulting that a western guy like yourself sir is trying to define what Islam is and isn't, probably you haven't even lived among Muslims before. You can't be further than the truth here. When it comes to Islam, well it qualifies that Today's Muslims do live, and exactly have same mindset as Muslims from the time of Muhammed's era. Your comparison to today's Christians is baseless in my opinion. Islam is more strong of a dogma, and its instructions as per how a Muslim should live and behave are well-kept accurately. The way a Muslim's body is supposed to move during daily 5 times prayers are for example described thoroughly, and had been documented and followed in an accurate way for the past 1000+ years or so. A similar approach is applies to each and every aspect of a Muslim's. Through thousands of Muslim scholars documenting the way a Muslim should be, and behave, I think today's Muslim lives a life that's an accurate representation of a Muslim who was living during the inception of Islam. Shiite are a diversion of that, they are not Muslims. They are more like Kafirs, or infidels according to the recorded Sunni doctrine. In fact, Sunni is not a division of Islam, Sunnah (the source of the name) means something like "the true way that Muhammed practiced ISlam, through is accurately recorded quotes and stories). Sunnis do a form of science to prove the validity of Muhammed's life stores, and try to reproduce as much accurate set of guidelines similar to how Muhammed lived his life, and Muhammed's vision of how a Muslim should lead his/her life. Again Shiite are a diversion of that, they do not accept Sunni doctrine, which is as I said, the most accurate, and"scientifically based" method of practicing Islam the way its founder intended it to be practiced. Islam is all about order, while in Christianity, the interpretation has been left open as there's a decentralization of power and authority, i mean for God's sake, they have 12 disciples ! This will greatly diminish any chance to establish an order in a Christian's life, thus you see the transformation. Don't fall in the trap of generalizing. In Islam there's one prophet, once source for a Muslim's lifestyle, and everything about Muhammed's life is recorded accurately, I won't exaggerate if I said even the way he pisses or shit has been recorded, and Muslims follow that to the point. Just have a look on this, it is a scientific research by Dr. Damanhuri !! About the stories of Muhammed's style in peeing! an exciting subject

@louhad this is the developed community of Iran perhaps? Gen. Suleimani and the Supreme leader practicing a version of the mourning while the singer singing about "the evil of Israel".

These rituals are entrenched in the Shiite doctrine. Variants of it is practiced by all shitte period. If you can whit yourself with a knife then you should beat your chest. I think you need to read more about this subject, which BTW seen us utter craziness by Sunnis. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mourning_of_Muharram It is certainly not Muslim rituals, but rather an ugly diversion of Islam as I understand it.

Not true, My family are Christians, and I am now involved with Actualized teachings. I do believe what I believe though about Sunnis and Shiite. I side with Sunnis if I had to choose.

@Corpus Structure is the same, Most Shiite do their yearly quest to Karbala, it is equivalent to the Meca for them, this is why I refered to it as Haj, which translates to something like "a visit to a far away sacred place"

@Mesopotamian I mean how can you ever convince any Sunni that Shiite who believe in worshiping graves, and ancestors and have these kind of blood rallies are even Muslims at all, I am an outsider and it doesn't look to me that they are Muslims at all, but flowing a retarded, regressive cult.

@Gesundheit Moral of the story: I think that Shiite are inferior to Sunnis on the spiral, and that it is not as Leo has claimed that the differences are minute. Shiite have certainly regressed on the spiral towards Stage-Purple, and that does play a huge role in today's conflict.

@Gesundheit This is Shiite's HAj, with blood, trying to experience some of the pain of the ancestors, Screams PURPLE This is Sunni's Hajj, Very organized and clean. Screams BLUE

I guess Shiite have adopt more purple beliefs, and their identity is different. They base their identity around being victimized. They weep and cry their Hassan and Hussain, they are delusional in terms of thinking that it is about Ali, and his sons, while let's face it, Islam is Islam, has nothing to do with Ali or his two sons and all the BS around their story. Shiite worship tombs of their Imams, this is a more stage-purple approach, while Sunnis at least don't buy into that BS The Shiite have a distinct identity, less stage blue, more of purple, cuz let's face it they are after the ancestors, they are crying the ancestors, not the message of the religion itself.

I would love to see Iraq re-occupied again, and then there should be a plan to concentrate Iraqi citizens in certain areas of Iraq, and make the rest of the land a no-human zone. How about this?

Iraq has a massive land area, and it is just normal take in other factors that it will he a hot bed for terrorist activities and organizations. After the double suicide attack few days ago, this is what how Iraqi government is responding: https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/24012021 These people who are going to be executed belong to different tribes, and those tribes will develop anger towards what the consider an "alien, western supported political process". This will accelerate forming of new terrorist organizations and reviving ISIS, and in no time, Iraq will see rebellion in large areas of land, which means it will go out of control of government, and this in turn will lead to a new international intervention at best case, which will cause a new war-like situation.

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/21/middleeast/iraq-baghdad-explosion-intl/index.html This happened at the first full day of Biden's Administration. My comment: Situation in Iraq is still very fragile, no, This is not still a result of Americans "messing and destabilizing Iraq". The reality is that Iraq's land area is so big, and according to https://www.nationsencyclopedia.com/ , "Present-day Iraq, comprising an area of 437,072 sq km (168,754 sq mi), Comparatively, the area occupied by Iraq is slightly more than twice the size of the state of Idaho" The truth is that it is hard to control this land with Iraqis still focusing solely on increasing numbers of security forces, recruiting over one million security personnel. Today's Iraq is a safe haven for terrorist organizations, and I can even argue that the latter are manufactured in Iraq. Honestly the lack of opportunities here, and the "Anti-Stage-Orange" mentality leads people to think to become criminals as a means of survival. I am doing my best to sponsor FB articles to teach people at least the importance of respecting the international laws, and any laws for that matter, in order to teach people how to respect a law or a convention or a constitution, all of are alien ideas to stage-red, and purple societies here. I believe this is the way to go, and to teach them the consequences of not respecting laws. I welcome any help in this regard, financial or intellectual.

I've been conversing with Iraqis on Facebook on why some of them support the bombing of American embassy in Baghdad, and I've noticed that the first thing they face you with is all the black points of American history since before its inception, and they start to cherry pick on facts, like they will mention how the atomic bomb destroyed Japan, while neglecting that it was Japan that dragged America into war while the latter proffered to stay neutral. They would mention the war on Vietnam, while neglecting the whole cold war in general and the split in the world between communism and capitalism. So after tens of hours of discussions, I noticed the following: they actually think that America doesn't deserve this position in the world on the top of the pyramid economically and militarily, and thy want this to change that through any means possible. They do support that America get out of Iraq because they are accusing it of messing up Iraq continuously. Therefore they would support any means or any action, even if it is bombing embassies. They neglect the fact that the US is on the top of the pyramid today because there were enormous circumstances involved death of tens of millions of people like in WWII. As for me, I see that those who are against America, like folks in Iran and Iraq are criticizing it from bellow, because they want to re-shape reality according to their own wishes using terrorism, and I feel sorry that the world is unable to grasp this, and even disgusted when some people try to find explanation by going inwards. Of course those who I am conversing with are not the actual people who do terrorist acts, but they form the base for the arguments on which those act are implemented, probably folks who have even more radical views.

Exactly! like I've spoken with some Iraqis online about this, and they agreed that that the British occupation founded Iraq, built streets, hospitals, schools, not the Ottomans. This is some of the wisest things I've read here on this forum from my point of view. The US's world domination is becoming a universal fact, and it proved to stabilize the world. We don't need to go against its domination in a direct way, but if we want to make the world a better place, we have to raise consciousness of people the way it is done on Actualized.org. In the meanwhile, my country Iraq should have a chance just like other countries when all the terrorism within it against embassies and international presence stopped, even if it takes another war or assassinations like Sulaimani's Assassination. Terrorism needs to stop, and people like me need to be able to travel freely as soon as Iraq is yet again back to international family. I do agree, it could have been much worse than this if the US wasn't involved in my area for example Iran has nuclear technology, and it is stolen from the west. It will most likely be used to threaten the world peace, cuz this is the definition of Stage-Blue having stage-orange tech, what will they do with it rather than trying to enforce Stage-blue morality on the rest of the world.

At this time, I don't even know that Europe or America are real places to visit. I've been under isolation for so long, and I used to travel once a year to another city, but now I don't due to the pandemic.