Moksha

Physics is the closest science comes to understanding reality. It reaches beyond the narrow band of human experience, and reveals the fraying at the edges of scale. Quantum mechanics and astrophysics prove that perception is reality, more convincingly than any philosophy has been able to do.

Hell is the iron maiden of the mind. So, let go of the mind and embrace heaven.

Sam is a smart guy, but if I could gift him nothing, it would be exactly that. ? No judgment, as a scientist I have been there, and am never fool enough to "think" I couldn't go there again.

True, and universally applicable, including me.

??

This is what I meant by the difference between conceptual and spiritual awakening. Conceptual awakening is the "aha!" moment of realizing that you are not the self you always thought you were. Spiritual awakening is more profound than that. It is directly realizing God in You, and in everything else. Your spiritual eyes open, and you see differently. It makes no sense conceptually, because it is an "out of mind" experience. When it happens, you will see solipsism for the silliness that it is.

I hear you, @Preety_India. I posted a thread once, where I invited people in our forum to share a picture that described how they see themselves. It resonated: a vibrant, eclectic menagerie, reflecting the polytechnic, video game gambit of the ambidirectional levels of human experience. I have been on other forums, but there is something special here. I made it my home for a reason. The intelligence, courage, open-"mindedness", and adventurous spirit of our dysfunctional family is what I love. I could choose safer spaces, where people praise one another for their "insights", but this is the jungle, and I love it. ?

Selling your soul, in all the parables, never turns out well There is wisdom in parables. Consciousness loves its stories, and it communicates truth to "us" through them. The greatest teachers realize the power of parables, and leverage it. Parables are a collect call to ourselves. Choosing to sacrifice ultimate happiness for short term gain is quintessential shortsightedness. What fool would make such a deal? As it turns out, all of us are fools, until we finally see the snake oil deal for what it is. Selling your soul is sacrificing your Self-awareness, to satiate the ego's lies. Instead, realize your soul. You are already infinitely abundant, and nothing worth anything needs to be sold ?

Isn't that your answer? If Your ultimate nature, directly realized, is recognized as the same nature that imbues everything else, how could solipsism be true?

When you directly realize your Self, not at the conceptual, but at the spiritual level, solipsism shows its empty hand. When your eyes open, you see the sameness, and the seamless contiguity, between all beings. That seeing dispels the lie of solipsism. Nonduality finally makes sense, not to the mind, but to the God that You are. I am only localized Consciousness, a transient wave with a beginning and an ending, but ultimately I am God, and so are you.

@Natasha Thank you!

True, and I think it's why Sam Harris was confused. Rupert Spira understood the difference between brain awareness and ultimate Consciousness. Someone could be in a coma, and yet still be resplendent as Consciousness.

Do you believe that being unconscious erases reality? I remember riding down the hill by my house as a kid, and my bike hitting a rock, and spinning through the air, and my head hitting the ground. My brother carried me back to my house. Did reality cease to exist when I was unconscious?

@Megan Alecia This Aquarius thanks you ♒

Synchronicity, my bday was this week

Consciousness is reality. It manifests through infinite forms, which may or may not be evolved enough to be aware. The only reason we, as human beings, understand it is because we have evolved the capacity for Self-Awareness, or for Consciousness to become aware of itself. Names always get you into trouble. Call it God, and people associate it with conceptual beliefs. Call it Consciousness, and people confuse it with awareness. The ancient gurus simply called it Tat, which literally means "That".

Sam seems to be conflating Self-Awareness with Consciousness. Consciousness exists in different states of awareness. For our planet, it is only recently that lifeforms have evolved the capacity for Consciousness to become Self-Aware. Being under anesthesia doesn't mean Consciousness disappears, any more than being a rock or a tree makes Consciousness disappear. It is imbued in every being, whether that being is Self-Aware or not.

Knowledge is a figment of the mind. It is completely conceptual. From the ultimate perspective of infinite Consciousness, what does knowledge even mean? It is nothing but a trap, to keep people from directly realizing who they are. The reason for the multitude of books in the infinite cosmic library is not to teach anything. It is to enjoy the storytelling, which is life itself. Without stories, there is no experience. There is only timeless, changeless, nothingness. The stories arise from Consciousness, they are infused with Consciousness, and they resolve back into Consciousness. They serve a purpose, and they are divine in their own right. Instead of dismissing life as a meaningless illusion, it is wise to realize, and celebrate, the reason that life exists.

Permanent awakening is how I would define enlightenment Even once your eyes are perpetually open though, the level of luminosity tends to fluctuate. Consciousness has its own cadence, and it provides more illumination when it is needed. Even the most enlightened gurus don't always shine with the same intensity. Also, as I believe you recognize, seeing clearly is only the first step. Living clearly is what it is all about.

Define awakening. People can awaken to the unreality of reality on psychedelics alone. Do you want more? Ram Dass took psychedelics for years, but didn't experience a deeper awakening until he met Maharaj-ji, whose love awakened him spiritually. Do you still want more? Even after these awakenings, there is always karma to burn. Attachments to be dissolved. Even-mindedness to be developed. Unconditional love to be realized. Nobody, not psychedelics, nor the best guru, can do this for you. The spiritual work can only be done by you. Why do the work? Because, despite the difficulty of the journey, lucid living is so much better than the inevitable suffering of conditional survival.

Maybe it will help you to consider that the story of @Javfly33 is no more ultimately real than the story of your mom or of your friend. If the story of @Javfly33 is not who You really are, why feel lonely and apathetic as @Javfly33? Perhaps the story of @Javfly33, the story of your mom, and the story of your friend, are all not only told by, but also part of You. Skepticism of the experience of others is always warranted. Never take anything as truth beyond your direct experience. I can share with you that I Consciously see the sameness in others that is in myself, but what does that mean to you, really? It is spiritual babble, until you see it for Yourself.

@abrakamowse True, and there is the Christian quandary of the holy trinity. Jesus taught that he had a Father, and also said that he and his Father are One On the Bhagavad Gita, I highly recommend the translation by Eknath Easwaran. You don't have to read the commentaries, which precede each chapter, but they provide valuable context, and are worth contemplating, in their own right.

Leo is speaking from an ultimate perspective. There is only One. From a relative perspective, there are infinite others. You are other. You are also One. You are one character in one story. You are also the entire cosmic library, created and contained by God. The mind likes to think categorically: I am this, or I am that. This is the trap of solipsism. The mind is incapable of understanding how all of this and that can be contained within, and mysteriously still be part of God. If you want to understand it, beyond the mind, read the Bhagavad Gita, or any other source that opens your spiritual eyes. It is a wisdom that surpasses conceptual understanding.

Well said. Consciousness is infinitely more profound than any of us can comprehend. And yet we still try to comprehend it with the mind. It's human nature, I suppose. I think of it as a cosmic library, filled with stories on every shelf. Choose just one aisle, walk along it, read every story you come across, and you will never reach the end of even that one aisle. Now extend the aisles infinitely, in all directions. Consciousness isn't just the author. It is isn't just the character in the story. It isn't just the reader. It is the library itself. Beyond even the cosmic library, it is the divine space in which the library resides. It is constantly writing, reading, immersing, realizing, and being Reality. You are just one character in one book in that cosmic library. You, and the other characters that share your story, are worthy of honor. When your child is born, rejoice. When your mother dies, mourn. Who cares how incomprehensibly vast the library is, and how microcosmically small your story is? Love your story and celebrate it. You, and the your loved ones, are created by God, who is Yourself, after all.

? Waking up is the easy part. Living unconditional love, by allowing your attachments to be eaten by the fire, one by one, is the real work. The Phoenix only rises from the ashes. Here's a poem I wrote a while back that continues to be my reality, but the burn is good ?: The Bonfire Consciousness strikes the spark of my undoing, Catching in the kindling of thought, Consuming it to soot, intensifying, Crumbling the timbers that it wrought, Purifying fire ever rising, Burning through the ropes of my desire, Devouring the karma of my making, Soul wind stirring these flames higher, Scattering the ashes of my suffering, No illusion left, only the fire.