Moksha

He's correct. The cosmos (creation) and the void (potential) are extreme dualities of the dream. One can't appear to exist without the other not appearing to exist. The unmanifested is beyond existence and non-existence, it is unveiled absolute, and it is pure reality.

@Razard86 "When the Absolute ZOOMS INTO a perspective character, that perspective that houses the character IS THE ABSOLUTE." Yes, but do you believe that only this particular character is the absolute? Or do you believe that other characters can also be the absolute within its cosmos? "And it is NOT beyond logical comprehension. The ONLY thing beyond logical comprehension is the fact that it has no origin, is eternal, and can disappear and reappear for all eternity." Having no origin, being eternal, and creating/annihilating at will seem significant enough not to be dismissed outright by claiming that logic is capable of grasping the absolute. "But how it TRICKS itself through self-deception it uses LOGIC to do it. Therefore you have to use LOGIC to UNTRICK yourself." Logic can only take you to the gate. It cannot shove you through to the other side. You can only be invited in by the absolute, which is who you actually are. It is a passage of grace. Direct experience and the paradox of the mystery are beyond logic. "There are no more realizations left once you figure out the self-deception." Do you agree that the depth of realization correlates with the depth of integration? Is the absolute fully realized within a form when it is still primarily driven by external attachments? "And stop saying BEYOND. THERE IS NO BEYOND. There is no direction. You never travel anywhere. You can say it isn't bound but BEYOND implies a travel or direction." Beyond is as good a word as any to describe that which is unbound by time, space, matter, experience, or change. "Again...that bubble is absolute." Every bubble has boundaries, does it not? If not, why call it a bubble? "Think of the VOID as the intermission room, this void is surrounded by infinite dreams. You zoom into all of them at the same time. Now each POV/Dream is itself the ABSOLUTE. Therefore the moment something leaves that POV it doesn't exist." Do you believe the absolute can co-inhabit multiple forms within the same dream? If not, it seems you believe that this form talking with your form in this moment is not also an avatar of the absolute?

Absolutely. Most people still believe that they are people, and that manifesting the desires of the veiled absolute within their form means manifesting the will of the unveiled absolute. Baby steps.

See my sig

I have a soft spot in my avatar heart for fellow INFJs Wish you the best in your meditation practice. "The Mind Illuminated" was my go-to, but there are many other great guides out there. The mind is like a bull desperately trying to escape from its pen. A skilled rider may be able to stay a few seconds on its back, but even the best will eventually be thrown. Instead of directly confronting the bull, try distracting it by offering some sweet grass. It doesn't have to be the enemy, and can actually learn to be your friend. ?

@Razard86 Much of what you've realized, regarding the absolute being all, is true. Still, are you open to the possibility that your current level of realization can deepen? Or does the absolute within your form believe that it has realized all there is to be realized about itself? Regardless, if you can answer the below it will help me better understand your level of realization: "Many on the forums think I am saying the avatar is all alone, HELL NO the avatar you see is no different than the other avatars you see, it is just an appearance!!" Correct, all avatars are illusions of the absolute. "If you are in your room, with your doors closed then there are NO OTHER ROOMS in the present moment. If you do NOT SEE any other visuals....then there are NO OTHER VISUALS. If you do not hear something, then that sound does not exist. YOU ARE EXISTENCE. If it is not within your awareness then it does not exist!!!" Who is the "you" in your room? You seem to be referring to the absolute experiencing its dream within a certain avatar? Do you acknowledge that the absolute can experience its dream through other avatars, in other rooms? That it can see other visuals and hear other sounds through other avatars? Do you acknowledge that the unveiled absolute is beyond all avatars, that it is beyond logical comprehension, and that it is beyond experience and change?

It's like a fireworks show, with a single rocket spiraling upward and exploding, to illuminate the sky above your head. Before long a few more fireworks offer their light. Eventually the entire sky is filled with cascades of light, a cacophony of patterns and colors dancing everywhere in maya. Finally, the serenity of night. Within and beyond all of it, the fireworks and the night sky, the absolute attends its phenomenal dream.

@Water by the River Bodhi originally has no tree, but me. The mirror has no stand, save where I stand. The Buddha-nature is always clear and pure, beside myself there is no more. Where is there room for dust, to entertain myself is now a must? Amazing how much space there is here on the other shore, all boats welcome!

I'm not sure, but it seems to have a bald head. ?

@Breakingthewall I'm glad to hear that the absolute within your apparent form is beginning to spontaneously realize itself. Has it started to realize the absolute within and beyond other apparent forms yet? It's a blinding field of light.

@Judy2 By turning your attention inward, I don't mean thinking about thinking. That only entangles you further, like struggling to free yourself from a Chinese finger trap. Have you tried meditation? It's about focusing on something other than the mind, rather than trying to control the mind. For people that struggle with hyperactive thoughts, meditation can be a helpful step toward realization. It trains you to allow thoughts to come and go, without identifying or engaging with them. If meditation isn't helpful, mantras and physical yoga can be a useful starting point. Regardless of what takes you inward, realization is sinking into the stillness of the absolute. It is pure blissful silence. Sometimes spiritual insights will spontaneously arise when I meditate, which is beautiful, but then awareness returns to its source. Eventually, you reach the point where abiding in awareness becomes your default state. It sublimates the experience of life.

@Water by the River Saving one sentient solipsist at a time

Do you see that the idea of you is equally a barrier? Yes, the absolute is seamless. It is within and beyond everything. Mystic 101. The problem with solipsism is that it crumples this realization down to the myopic perspective of the observer. He is unable to see the absolute in everything, only in himself. Everything else in his perception is dismissed as empty illusion. He forgets to dismiss himself while he is at it.

I'm the angel on his shoulder ?

Who did you have high hopes for again?

@Razard86 It's true that where much is given, much is expected. Truth and accountability are correlated. When the absolute realizes and then denies itself, the karmic ripples spread farther than when it remains asleep. Had he not been a son of the morning, Lucifer wouldn't have fallen so far into the abyss. Still, this is at the relative level. Only the absolute is accountable, and its path unfolds as it wills. I understand the purpose of telling people they have free will. It is a shrewd way for the absolute to wake itself up. Although people don't actually have free will, the absolute within them, which is who they actually are, does. Regardless of the granularity of will, the actions people take will always have consequences. For the record, we are fighting for the same side. Ego ahoy! ⚔️

@Breakingthewall No ideas are what they point toward, but some point to the absolute more directly than others. The idea of solipsism is a poor pointer. Although also incorrect, the idea of others outside of you is still a better pointer than the idea that only you exist. At least it keeps open the way for seeing the same absolute, not only within your form, but within all forms. Sometimes a half-truth is more deceptive than blindness. Few people go directly to the source, and few are likewise enlightened. Still, it is the best path if you are able to take it. Otherwise, find whatever method takes you inward, without calcifying the concept of perspective. @Yimpa You would if you were God within the person using the banana as a pointer @StarStruck Ah yes, the mystic seeing beyond the trappings of Judaism to the glittering truth within its depths. ?

@Judy2 Yes, a moral compass is a good analogy. Judgment is the steadiness of the needle, but it is only useful when an accurate map is being followed INFJs tend to troop off in whatever direction our current level of awareness tells us to go. It may be toward an oasis or off a cliff, but we march with determination to the inevitable end. The "N" in us can be honed to ensure we are carrying the correct map in the first place. As you have realized, behaviors that help us feel safe often cause more harm than good. Of course, we need form survival to continue experiencing the dream, but the truth is that most of what is required can be sustained on autopilot. This realization is especially poignant for people like INFJs who tend to maximize everything, including the suffering of misguided navigation. Instead of losing yourself in attempts to feel safe from external threats, or to secure happiness through external desires, the secret is to find yourself within. When it happens, the light of the absolute will burst through, and you will laugh at former attempts to protect that which can never be harmed. My advice is to find whatever tool that turns your attention inward. Maybe it's meditation, guidance from an awakened teacher, contemplation of writings like the Bhagavad Gita, or ideally direct self-inquiry. It's less about the method than about leveraging whatever method helps you enter the gate of absolute realization.

@OldManCorcoran ⚡Who knew the insight intersection of psychedelics and suffering would be symbolized by a babushka doll @Breakingthewall Why settle for an idea that continues to mislead and confuse people, instead of diving directly into the source? When people read "you are infinity", they conflate "you" with their form perspective. They believe that only their awareness is real, and that the rest of the cosmos (even family members) is their imagination. They don't understand that their form is equally being imagined, and that the absolute is imagining itself through countless other forms, including those that they encounter within the dream. It is a false perspective that leads to a deeply egoic sense of loneliness and annihilism. I've never read the writings of a mystic that endorses this false idea, nor has it ever occurred to me. I may be mistaken, but solipsism seems to happen most often to people that have tried psychedelics. Not to say the idea can't eventually be dropped, but why perpetuate it in the first place?

Completely agree. This forum seems stuck in a perpetual struggle with solipsism, which devalues the dream and leaves people feeling lonely and feckless. It's an insidious snare, and needs to be called out whenever it whack-a-moles itself into yet another thread. The cosmos, including each form engaging with this forum, is here for a reason. Awakening doesn't diminish the beauty of the dream. To the contrary, lucid dreaming enhances the vibrancy of every experience. It is the highest and deepest adventure. Your quote from Ken Wilbur said it more eloquently than me, I can only fully endorse what he said.

I'd say you're right Suffering and enlightenment are opposite ends of the same stick. The absolute rarely manifests an anchored form. Apparently we prefer the oceanic adventure, first outward toward the enticing horizon, and finally back into the serene port of ourselves. Beliefs and even realizations are insufficient to stop the ship and reverse course. Only integration, which is abandoning the swashbuckler's song in favor of silence, brings us home.

@Schizophonia Religious dogmas were the source of my indoctrination. I was spiritual before religion, during religion, and after religion. Religious beliefs added an unnecessary conceptual layer that obscured rather than facilitated absolute awareness. I used to bother too much, but not much bothers me any more. @Judy2 I wouldn't be surprised, given that "J" personalities are more likely to judge themselves or others, with the collateral damage that ensues in its wake. Judgment is a megaphone. Initially it amplifies the voice of misidentification, but after realization, it amplifies the inner voice. We are seers and prophets in the making In a nutshell, a couple years ago my suffering reached the critical mass necessary for me to break. I realized that the lies my mind had told me about what was necessary for happiness and peace (hyper-vigilance, perpetual mental processing, harsh recrimination for minor mistakes, etc.) had led to just the opposite. It was unrelenting torture that only became worse with time. I remember this image of white-knuckled fingers clinging desperately to the ledge, and willingly letting go to fall into the void. I didn't know what would happen, only that anything was better than the hell I was in. My awareness plummeted deeper, and the absolute within caught itself and kept it safe. That was my awakening. There are more chapters than that, but it gives you a glimpse which I hope is helpful in some way.

@Water by the River Beautiful quote from Ken Wilbur, thanks for sharing. ? We sometimes think of the human form as a single-layered container, but it is more like a babushka doll: It is a composite of nested forms, progressing in refinement from the gross (physical) to the subtle (mental) and finally to the supra-subtle (soul). Each of these forms is also made of maya, but progressively brings awareness closer to its formless state. When realization goes deep, even beyond the soul, there is only pure awareness. The witness and the witnessed conflate into the absolute reality beyond both.

@Yimpa @CARDOZZO @QQQ I'm happy it's helpful. Even though the journey is unique, sometimes the absolute sees itself more clearly within a form by sensing itself within the form of others. @Razard86 You began by agreeing that everyone is sincere, and concluded that people must take accountability for their actions, with which I also agree. What is accountability, other than the absolute beginning to direct its awareness inward toward itself? It does this through various spiritual practices and teachings, which gradually clear the haze of its confusion and return it to the clarity beyond the inner gate. @Breakingthewall Who is choosing to be stupid, the human or the absolute within the human form? It seems that the more complex a form becomes, the deeper its capacity for both thought-entrapment and realization. It's like a swinging pendulum, between the extremes of external and internal identification. Simple forms are nearly still, or move in narrow arcs. The more evolved the form, the larger its arc becomes. To deeply realize itself within the cosmos, the absolute must also grapple with the intense gravity of misidentification.

This interaction, and every other experience you have, is the absolute preparing itself for awakening. The sooner you see this, the easier it will be when the time comes. To the extent you can, prepare for it without preconditions. The soil is fertilized, rain falls upon the tree, and when it is finally ripe the apple falls. Awareness goes where it is needed. It responds when it is called. It enlivens, ripens, and savors the fruit of its garden. The careful Gardener grows us with its light, until we are heavy and sweet for harvest. When we are ready, like a full apple, we release our attachment from the tree. Thudding into the earth, we spill our seeds into the soil. Awareness is here, tending the seeds with its light. The shoot of an apple tree erupts from the surface, new life in the abundant garden, and Awareness is here.