Moksha

You asked if there is a way out of suffering. We are trying to help you, but we can only point. If you want to end the suffering in your life, learn to be present as much as possible. Experience the healing light of stillness and allow it to dissolve your attachments to the world of form. It is easier said than done, but it is possible. I continue to slip into unsconsciousness, but I am increasingly present. And my suffering is less as a result.

@Someone here The illusion is the unconscious identification with the conditioned mind. Being conscious is different from being conscience. All of us are conscience, but relatively few of us are conscious. Enlightenment is consciousness that you are conscience, It is the end of illusion and suffering.

The ego is the illusion that you are your conditioned mind. Realizing yourself as consciousness is the end of ego. Staying present in that realization is the end of suffering.

Yes. Ego is complete identification with the conditioned mind. Presence is the realization that you are not your conditioned mind; i.e., the end of ego.

@Bulgarianspirit Obstacles can be painful, but pain is different from suffering. Suffering is only necessary until it is no longer necessary. Obstacles are powerless to touch who you are, and they are the universe's way of helping you learn not to suffer.

Life gives us obstacles as an opportunity for realization and growth. Obstacles are not a problem. They only become a problem when we resist them. All obstacles conflate to a single question: Do you accept the isness of the present moment, or do you suffer as a result of refusing to accept it? Once you learn to live in the Now , obstacles will no longer seem insurmountable. You will navigate them with intelligence and grace.

I agree with you. I would only add that freedom from suffering is not only a realization; it is the regular practice of staying present, noticlng our attachments and aversions, and dissolving them with the light of consciousness. There are exceptions, but for most of us this practice takes years, perhaps even a lifetime. How do you know if you are making progress? You suffer less and love more.

@VeganAwake Cuckoo = Insanity of the mind Lying awake at night = Hamster wheel of the mind Something = Illusion of the mind Moksha = Letting go of the mind

The faith was the letting go that allowed me to have the direct experience.

@Nahm As are you,

I agree with you. The experience itself is all that matters. Everything else is conceptual and unnecessary. I used to think "ultimate truth" mattered more than anything; now I only engage in it for play. The meaning of life is found in "ultimate experience". @Chris365 Yes, and so are you

@Chris365 I agree that Consciousness is the ultimate reality. I don't know that it is, nor do I need to know that it is. Let's say I have faith that it is.

The best motivator for enlightenment is suffering.

@Persipnei In the end, the only answers that matter will arise from inside of you If you're interested, I highly recommend checking out the Bhagavad Gita, particularly the translation by Eknath Easwaran. From your questions, it seems like a guide that could help you find some of those answers within.

@Chris365 Do you believe there is an ultimate reality? Is Consciousness objective? @Nahm If only direct experience was objectively valid @PopoyeSailor Thank you for the good wishes, and I'm happy to hear that you have found meaning in your life. I have eaten the fruit, and agree that it is quite delicious. I don't care whether or not it is objectively real. All that matters to me is that it provides sustenance and peace.

From an Eastern perspective, the Uncaused Cause is eternal and unchanging. It is "unmanifested reality". It creates the manifested "world of name and form", which eventually dissolves back into itself, and the process continues forever. Some would call every manifested thing an illusion, but I see it differently. I believe that matter and energy are real. Eastern scripture speaks of both God Transcendent (unmanifested) and God Imminent (manifested). The apparent paradox is that both Brahman and Atman are the same, much like the sun and the manifested rays of the sun are the same. Ultimate reality is nondualistic, i.e., infinity is both all and none; the sun is One.

@Carl-Richard Redundancy implies reality. As we've been discussing in the thread, reality is in the eye of the beholder. You view it as redundancy, based on a perspective which may be true, but is not objectively proven to be so. @PopoyeSailor We are all unavoidably biased. We can only do our best not to be, but even then we are still biased. Even objectivity as a universal standard is a form of bias. I have spent many years reviewing "proofs" of the supernatural, only to realize that there aren't reliable proofs. My standard for proof requires objective, replicable research demonstrating that a particular hypothesis is probably true (i.e., >95% likelihood that the result is not due to chance). Even then, it is not absolute proof, but at least it is something. People claim absolute proof for every belief system (Christianity, Hinduism, Paranormal Activity, etc. etc. etc.), but if such proof really existed, why doesn't everyone accept it? Is it because we're all biased, or because the proof is tenuous to begin with? For a good pointer, I recommend The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

You will get different answers depending on who you ask. From an eastern perspective: I love the idea, but for me it is just an idea In a broader sense, it coincides with the scientific view of an expanding/contracting universe.

My brain is experiencing a sentence that your brain produced. Hello brain!

To the contrary, I wish it were true. But honesty requires me to admit that wishing doesn't make it so. If there's anything we understand about human bias, it is that people are attracted to "evidence" that confirms their preexisting biases. The best we can do is to be aware of that bias, and try not to fall prey to it.

The question is whether it is possible to experience anything without a brain. Current weather is cloudy on that one.

@Nahm I was responding to your request that I "Consider the odds of this moment as it is in eternity". Doing so makes it less likely that there is a supernatural explanation for the universe. You can argue that statistics is an "assumed concept", but so is everything else. On such existential questions, there is no such thing as "direct experience". There is only subjective experience, through the filter of our own mind. I have experienced isness as awareness, and it certainly feels direct and infinite and beautiful, but I can't rule out that it is a product of my subconscious mind. @Adamq8 I agree with you, and yes, I have had many meaningful spiritual experiences. Our fate after death remains to be seen, and more importantly, it doesn't matter. What actually matters is what the spiritual masters have taught. They don't speak much about infinity. Instead, they focus on the causes for and end of suffering (emphasis added):

@PopoyeSailor Without the five sense organs (which are unavoidably physical), the five senses experienced through those organs are no longer possible. A blind man cannot see. On out of body experiences, I referenced that in my recommendation of Return from Tomorrow. I have read quite a few books about this, and that is one of my favorites. That said, I have yet to find reliable objective evidence for any of these claims. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but then again neither is it evidence.

@Nahm In an infinite reality, every possibility, however remote, is eventualized. The universe is not infinite, but considering its vastness, it is statistically impossible that this planet and our species would not exist. Especially when you calculate at the level of the multiverse. Everything we observe is perception and thought. What else could it be? The question is whether consciousness is a byproduct of the brain, or whether consciousness exists beyond the brain. Since nobody has reliably proven consciousness outside of the brain, I am unwilling to accept it as fact. I have experienced it myself, but even so I cannot rule out the subjectivity of my own experience. @Adamq8 Anyone who is honest has no idea what happens after death. My current opinion is that at death our physical bodies, our brains, our emotions, and our personalities dissolve back into the cosmic soup that they came from. I like to think there is consciousness after death (even better, that consciousness simply is, independent of time and space), but that is only a projection at this point.

@Carl-Richard We can observe the brain stopping in others. In a limited sense, we can even observe the brain stopping in ourselves. But it is not the entire brain stopping, just the conditioned part. I am fairly confident that nobody has observed the complete stopping of their brains, at least not reliably or replicably. That said, I recommend Return from Tomorrow by George Ritchie as a fascinating dive into that possibility.