Moksha

@Breakingthewall @bejapuskas I appreciate both of you answering my questions. I've read about Aldous Huxley's experiences from Doors of Perception and afterwards, and just curious how others have experienced enlightenment through drugs compared to other paths. I've never even tried marijuana, and while that could happen at some point, I don't feel comfortable trying anything close to psychedelics. My own journey has been the traditional path of suffering, but that can be a hard drug in its own right. It is a major paradigm shift, whatever causes it. For me, the suffering was intense and long enough that it finally woke me up. Like you, I don't see how I could go back to blindly believing in the lies of the ego. I don't take it for granted though. I know the conditioned mind is the devil, and will never give up vying for my attention. Fortunately once you are awake, you are no longer completely at the mercy of your mind. You Just have to stay vigilant and continue dissolving attachments. I see it as a lifelong journey, but it's already so much better than it was.

@VeganAwake Thanks, I can see how the initial experience with psychedelics might be a way for people to experience what it is like to simply be, without thought.

@Chives99 Just because you are doing nothing doesn't mean you are experiencing nothing. Do you practice inner body awareness? Have you tried observing nature without naming it? Can you feel the connection between yourself and everything else? There is something beautiful and peaceful about spaciousness. Once you tap into it, and realize that you are it, why would you want to return to the barking insanity of the mind?

@Psychventure Awareness is only the first step toward enlightenment. Leo talked about not being bound by laws, but if you look at the second half he acknowledged the need of the form to abide by these laws. Are physical miracles possible? Did Jesus walk on water? I can't say definitively either way, since I'm not fully enlightened

Some scientists believe that physical laws vary from universe to universe. If so, "god" is not bound by a changeless set of laws. Maybe as Einstein discovered, laws depend upon the scale of our perception.

Now that is Love

@bejapuskas Very interesting, thank you. When you say that under psychedelics you forget what your friends are, I bet you can still remember their names, it's just that the boundaries between you and them dissolve and everything is one? Also interesting to hear that a psychedelic can have a slow build up, rather than exploding you into awareness. I can see not forgetting the lessons of the psychedelic experience, but I guess what I'm asking is how does it translate to your regular life experience? Do you experience the same live connection to who you really are on a regular basis? Do you find your ego continues to dissolve and your desires/aversions fade when you're not under the influence of drugs? Do you suffer less and love more? I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything I have no desire to try psychedelics, and I have no judgment for those that do. I'm just curious how it translates to enlightenment and a spiritual life. That's why I found Leo's experience so interesting. Being free of concepts, experiencing the Oneness of everything, sensing the Mystery of ultimate reality, channeling intelligence word by word, and realizing that you are light is how I describe my own experience. Anyway, it was eye opening that Leo seemed to experience many of the same things. If there is an apparent difference from what I heard Leo describe, for me there is a holiness to the experience. I've been agnostic for many years, but that is how I would describe it. Healing, Wholeness, and Holiness all derive from the same etymological root. It is not just that you realize everything is One; there is also a sense of progression. It's like Consciousness is playing in the world of form, but part of the play is a deliberate increasing awareness of itself. I feel this happens cosmologically, but also individually, which is really the same thing.

Career is a great spiritual practice. Learn to be present through meditation, and apply that presence in your career. Not only will you suffer less, but your actions will be higher quality and your thinking will be more creative and intelligent.

Even better, Love sees everything truly.

Racism is the ego manifesting itself. The ego is an illusion, and can only survive by claiming superiority over others. It is the fruit of complete identification with the physical form. The ego is blind to the One being that all of us are.

@bejapuskas I've never taken drugs, so I was surprised when I not only understood but resonated deeply with the essence of what Leo was saying. I expected a psychotic rant, and instead found the same distancing from ego, sense of awe, and realization of being universal intelligence that I have experienced naturally. I don't believe Leo's experience was an ego death as much as a Self-awakening process. After the first 30 minutes, it seemed like his conditioned mind started to reassert itself as he described being afraid of what this realization would mean for his practical life in the future, unsure of what would happen if the realization didn't last, concerned with following social and moral norms, etc. I get what you're saying about psychedelics being explosive. For me, the awakening was a more natural process. I'm curious whether people that have had a psychedelic experience are able to continue realizing the same experience after they come down from the high? Are you able to stay aligned with universal intelligence, even when you are off drugs? Do you still feel the ego dissolving, along with its attachments and suffering? My sense is that psychedelics are like steroids for the brain. The people I've seen take steroids develop muscle faster, but for their size they don't seem to have as much strength as people that develop muscle naturally. No judgment of either path, it's just something I've noticed over years of working out physically, and I'm curious if the same is true for building spiritual muscle.

What draws you to psychology, and what do you want to do with it? I studied psychology because I found the subject fascinating. It is a nice way to learn about how the human mind works. It also provides a solid grounding in the scientific method. If that is your motivation, go for it. Just realize that a bachelor's degree in psychology has little practical utility. You will probably need to get a post-graduate education if you plan to make a career out of it. If your aspiration is to be a clinical psychologist, an advanced degree is important. If your aspiration is to heal, you don't need to go the psychology route. You can still be an effective therapist without pursuing psychology, although the background helps. You just won't be able to call yourself a psychologist (which is not necessarily a bad thing). I appreciate my education. But honestly, if I could do it again, I would go into philosophy rather than psychology. And if I could redo that, I would probably go into spirituality rather than philosophy.

All you need is Love Love is all you are.

@Dodo Why are you here? Do you see yourself as someone with a message to share with others? Are you here to learn? Both? Neither? Regardless, if you are suffering in your life I wish you peace. If you have found enduring peace, I am happy for you.

@Dodo I love the humility and honesty in your response. I agree with you that the ultimate Mystery of God is beyond our comprehension. However, I disagree that there is any need for apology. We are as God made us to be, and we could not be otherwise. That doesn't mean we can't be awed and grateful for the Mystery that made us. We are the children of God, we are the Atman, we are God's emanation, we are the light of God, and we are God. Ultimately, there is only One. And yet, God still transcends us. The rays of the Sun are the Sun, and yet they are transcended by the Sun. The waves of the Ocean are the Ocean, and yet they are transcended by the Ocean. That is part of the eternal Mystery. Atman is Brahman, and yet Atman is transcended by Brahman.

@Dodo Nobody is playing God. God is playing us. And yes, God is Love. What else could God be since separation is an illusion?

@Marinador What you describe is not spiritual enlightenment. Loss of the ego is beautiful, integral, liberating, and awe-inspiring. Look at people like the Buddha, Gandhi, and the Dalai Lama. Do they suffer from the symptoms McKenna describes? They are simple, loving human beings that know who they and who everyone else really is. Spiritual enlightenment doesn't mean losing form awareness; you simply realize it for what it is. It is the awakening of sanity. The human mind is a fire. It destroys when it is out of control, and it provides light and warmth when it is tended. Spiritual enlightenment is simply the realization allowing the use of your mind rather than being used by your mind. @VeganAwake You are fortunate not to need the dissolving of religious attachments. We are the ultimate primal energy, playing peekaboo with itself @Dodo Love is a living realization, not an emotion. It is the experience of dissolving every false boundary that separates "me" from "you", and recognizing that there is only One. That is what Leo was talking about, and it is the same message from every person that has experienced awakening. You mention the ultimate Mystery, and you are right. Even the awakened can only point to it, but we cannot describe it. Leo mentioned it in his video. He sensed it, but he could not understand it. And it is not because Leo is stupid It is literally beyond human comprehension. The ancient Sanskrit term for ultimate reality is Tat, which literally means "That". That is the Uncaused Cause, That is the Ultimate Source, That is the Eternal beyond existence and non-existence. I love That, don't you?

@Dodo The kingdom of heaven is within. We are already heaven, some of us just haven't realized it yet.

@VeganAwake "I" am Atman: God Imminent, one of the infinite rays of light emanating from Brahman and enlivening a transient form. Atman is Brahman, but Brahman is transcendent to Atman. Suffering arises from identifying with this form, and peace arises from realizing this true Self. The more transparent the Ego becomes, the more brightly the light within shines, until the illusion of separation completely dissolves. Awakening is the experiential realization that there is no "I". This is the realization of Love. We are all the same light. There is only one sun with its infinite emanations, playing in the world of form. Tat tvam asi.

Transparency.

@Dodo Trust yourself. And by yourself, I mean Consciousness. Once you know who you are, you will be in the most powerful position to help others have the same realization.

I rarely use the term "god" because it invokes concepts for a lot of people. Stephen Hawking may have been referring to an old man with a white beard in a heavenly throne; who knows. I heard Eckhart Tolle describe an encounter with Stephen Hawking when they were at the same university. Hawking looked straight into his eyes, and he realized that Hawking had completely accepted the isness of his reality, and was at peace. Sounds a lot like enlightenment to me.

Do you believe there were no trees before you were born? And will the trees outside my window stop changing color when you die?

Love is experiencing your Self in others. If you are enlightened, by definition you are love.