Moksha

Every teaching is meaningless until is directly realized. There is no clearer clue to god than being god.

Welcome to the flow state ⚡

@Water by the River Despite hearing this song throughout my life, this is the first time I've truly seen it. ? The reality beyond division, understanding, and experience is the beauteous source of godly lightning we call love, light, and joy.

I like that. All three levels of the ego are transcended by direct realization. Appearances still come and go, but you no longer identify with them. You can still navigate from a distance through the dream, but there is absolute awareness that you are doing nothing, thinking nothing, and identifying as nothing. That is the true flow state. The awakened sages call a person wise when all his undertakings are free from anxiety about results; all his selfish desires have been consumed in the fire of knowledge. The wise, ever satisfied, have abandoned all external supports. Their security is unaffected by the results of their action; even while acting, they really do nothing at all.

If boredom wasn't a thing, none of us would do anything, think anything, or attach to anything. Not that we are doing, thinking, or attaching to anything in the first place.

@Water by the River @Bazooka Jesus So much for the stereotype that Krauts are stolid and concise.

True dat: I don’t mind what happens. That is the essence of inner freedom. It is a timeless spiritual truth: release attachment to outcomes, deep inside yourself, you’ll feel good no matter what. - Jiddu Krishnamurti

@Yimpa @Breakingthewall So little time, so little to do, so many places not to go...

@Javfly33 He just called you a fly catcher. You are the space within which the jav-fly flies. ?

Is it possible that absolutely nothing is absolutely aware, regardless of form consciousness?

Hallucination is the absolute imagining differences, directions, densities, and durations. There are hallucinations within hallucinations within hallucinations. Lucidity is the absolute realizing its seamless, intransient, weightless, timeless essence. There can be lucidity both within and beyond hallucinations.

Well said. Sometimes the ego is so insidious that it insists it is all reality, whether veiled or not, and as such is eminently worthy of worshipping itself. The devil is in the relative details, despite its declamations of absolute love.

@Water by the River I generally like Ken Wilbur, but this quote is rife with potential misinterpretation. I know you already realize this, but some of the folks here on the forum may not. To understand ego death and absolute realization requires a clear definition of what ego is. Ego is NOT the human mind, with its perceptions, drives, and desires. Enlightenment precludes none of these phenomena, nor does it imply that people become mindless automatons. Ego is IDENTIFICATION with the human mind. It is blind enslavement to perceptions, drives, and desires in the false conviction that these attachments will lead to happiness. It is inevitably suffering. Lucid dreaming is the unconditional intersection of the absolute with the relative. It is god experiencing its creation without losing itself within it. Wilbur is right that mystics change the world. Their motivation is not misidentification, but is the pure channeling of the absolute into its cosmos. The mind is not abandoned, but is deconditioned and transfigured from an oppressive demon into a companion dragon that will take you into depths and heights that would have been impossible in the unawakened state.

This is a common misconception. Enlightenment isn't repressing emotions and experiences in stoic withdrawal. Just the opposite, in fact. It is allowing the cosmos to flow through you, without clinging to it, or misidentifying it as who you actually are. In the flow state, emotions and experiences are actually enhanced, because you are free to fully enjoy them for what they are.

It's true. I mentioned a while back that I had a long conversation with a member of the forum that I consider to be awake. Can you call it a conversation when the majority of it is full-on eye-wiping laughter? Silence may be next to godliness, but laughter runs a close second place.

Genuine laughter, despite the doom shadow, can be leveraged to remove the mask. The ego takes itself so seriously. @Bazooka Jesus You out there?

It may seem like a duality, if you consider your apparent self to be real. All dualities are illusion. The absolute, which is who you actually are, is beyond dualities.

Yes, I've compared ego death to launching a rocket into space. The initial gravity is already intense, and it only flattens you more the closer you get to the sound barrier. The mounting pressure seems unsustainable as it encounters increasing resistance. Your entire body shakes as if it is about to fall apart. Then BOOM. You pass the threshold of the senses, and accelerate to supersonic speeds. You are the rocket, the planet is the egoic mind, and gravity is its desperate attempt to keep you attached. It takes a serious supply of rocket fuel, which is suffering, to transcend the gravity of the ego and realize free space. As it turns out, you never were the ego, and your essence is at home in the stars.

⚡I would call it not a failure to think logically, but a success in seeing that truth is directly realized, beyond the conceptual capacity of the mind.

It's true. Fear is the mask that the absolute wears to hide from itself. Why hide? So it can experience the thrill of the chase. Eventually, exhaustion sets in and it realizes the chase has run its course. Time to remove the mask and go home. Demasking is easier when you realize fear is an illusion, and the entire chase was only a child's game.

So logic is a limitation the absolute places on itself, in order to appear other than it is? If so, it seems the answer to seeing though its own charade is to look deeper than logic can go.

What is the absolute according to logic?

How long does it take for a glacier to melt? Seems to me it depends on the size of the glacier, and the degree of its exposure to the sun.

Socrates applied logic to conclude that he knows nothing. As much as I admire Plato and Aristotle, I resonate with Socrates. What can logic accomplish beyond admitting its own limitations? I understand philosophy well enough to know it is entirely bound by conceptualization, and feckless as a means for direct realization. Absolute reality is beyond logic.

You don't even have to go to fear. You only need to remain anchored in the absolute, which is beyond fear. Everything else appearing to arise is a distraction, nothing more.