Moksha

Save yourself 1,000 words and post a picture in this thread that captures how you feel. I got a mental image a few days ago, and just came across this image which resonates beautifully:

@Lews Therin Yes, what you describe is what most of us experience when we wake up. There is still a ship, you just directly realize the lively connection between the ship and everything else. It is beautiful and transformative, but perhaps not the highest stage of consciousness. Ultimate consciousness seems to be more than that. The realization is so complete, that there is no ship or ocean. There is just everything and nothing. This is what I imagine it is like when we physically die. There is only universal consciousness, completely free of any sense of personality. Most of us don't come back from that. Some, like The Buddha and Jesus, do for the purpose of showing us the way.

Thanks for sharing your experience. From my understanding of ultimate Consciousness, it is beyond what most of us can comprehend. Literally, there are no thoughts, memories, or emotions. You become universal Consciousness itself, free from all perspectives. At least, that is how The Buddha describes it.

By suffering, I'm referring to psychological suffering, which is avoidable. Pain is not always avoidable. For all you know, "you" have already been in hell for eternity

1 and 0 are mutually dependent. Neither can be without the other. Underlying both, beyond existence and non-existence, is the undefinable: Tat.

Bingo Creativity is infinite, and every possibility is inevitable. It's all just imagination. You only suffer in hell if you insist on being in heaven.

@nitramadas A kaleidoscope, look forward to playing with it ? Exposing the ego is arguably the best thing that could happen. The worst thing that could happen would be someone clamoring up the color ladder, pointing out how their color is higher than someone else's, and not understanding that every color is inevitable.

After the disidentification, did you have any thoughts, memories, emotions? If so, who was thinking, remembering, feeling?

@Lews Therin Referring to the idea that infinity may be confusing or distressing, given that hell is unavoidable. If you understand that hell cannot exist without heaven, and that heaven too is unavoidable, does that bring you peace?

People spend their entire lives chasing the Truth when all they have to do is be. Hint: If you think you understand anything, you don't.

Let there be dice!

Any hierarchy is a welcome mat for the ego. It sets off my spider senses Laying down the Yield sign, @nitramadas do you have a good link on spiral dynamics besides this one? https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Merry-Peter-Reflections-SDi-v1-upgrade.pdf

Sounds like the primal fear of death itself. It's a damn hard monster to accept.

Even the now is still a belief, in the sense that it is experienced from a personal perspective. It's the closest most of us can come to ultimate reality

@SoonHei Sorry for the convoluted question What I meant was, do you think people on psychedelics can experience the final stage of enlightenment? Take a look at my post here: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/56889-is-it-possible-to-erase-the-concept-of-eyes/#comment-762503 People directly realize being connected with everything, and experience that everything is One. They realize being the creative energy of Consciousness. But it is still from a fixed perspective, stretching out to encompass everything else. The spiritual gurus that climb the highest, ultimately separate from any sense of personal identity, and merge into a universally Conscious state. There is no "I" any more; they totally disidentify from any sense of memory or personality or emotion or experience. At the highest level, they actually become the Unity. Have you experienced, or do you know anyone that has, this highest state on psychedelics? Purely out of curiosity, not the desire to try it myself

@SoonHei There's a lot of "I". In that state, what happens when there is no "I"? Not in the "I am everything" sense, but in the nonlocalized 3rd Eye sense. Do people on psychedelics ever experience that?

Mmmm, turtle soup

@abrakamowse Not only that, but they are smart enough not to challenge the angel blocking the road Animals can teach us, if we're willing to listen.

@Lews Therin If you aren't enjoying the nightmare, step out of the dream.

It is possible. The Buddha described four dhyanas, or stages of awareness. Others like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Meister Eckhart, Augustine, and Patanjali have experienced the same mystical journey. The final stage is deadly quiet, like floating aimlessly in deep space. Maybe people that have tried psychedelics understand this to a degree, I can't say. The Buddha realized it through unflinching, one-pointed meditation.

@Mvrs The mind is hell. Zen is the state of no mind. Don't think, and therefore be.

Even the donkey can teach you something, if you don't get distracted by the bray

The present moment is the conflation of dream scenes. The dreamer is the sub-Ultimate reality (Atman) that is bound to the present moment. Ultimate reality (Brahman) is the observer and source of the dreamer and the dreamed, and it is timeless.

Materialism only realizes part of the circle. Matter doesn't give rise to Consciousness. Consciousness imbues itself into matter, and gives rise to itself.

@abrakamowse Preach it, brother Bohr