Moksha

Thank you, @seeking_brilliance, I will check in with him. I'm curious for any of you that have tried psychedelics, has this happened to you?

@abrakamowse @seeking_brilliance @SirVladimir ? Damn, I love this place and these people.

Now you are waking up

Eastern wisdom is what brought me to heaven I have a Christian background, and I had glimpses of heaven then, too. My beliefs were a sort of bondage, and they tried to make heaven conditional. The only thing that dies is the thing that never lived in the first place.

Consciousness is never apart from itself. It is an infipus. It plays the separation game of inserting a tentacle into a form, and wiggling it around for a while. Sometimes the tentacle gets disentangled, still within the form, and Consciousness realizes the integrity that was always there. That is the illusion of enlightenment.

@SirVladimir inspired me to this: Unwinding through the labyrinth of Versailles, Seeking its path to nowhere, Hearing its moonlight music, Tracing the pattern of its leaves, Following its wending way, Its sweet hedges caress me out of myself, And toss me back into the sky.

@Claymoree It isn't uncomfortable at all, I just have never experienced it until after my "experience". I do feel a higher energy state overall, so that could help explain it. @seeking_brilliance That is exactly what it feels like, but it's more like it is always there on the periphery, waiting for me to focus on it. Do you have any links, or have you experienced it personally, if you don't mind me asking? @The0Self I think REM was a mislabel, since it is only my eyelids that move and there's no feeling of paralysis. I can easily open or close my eyes when it happens. Dreams are a whole other topic, but that is something else that is weird. I used to have dreams a lot as a kid, that seemed to have meaning. Then I went for years without any significant dreams. This week, I had two dreams on Monday and Tuesday that had enormous significance. ?all of you, thank you for letting me talk about this.

Thanks man, have never heard of hypnogonic visions but I will check it out. I don't see visions though, it is more like a pure spiritual channeling, if that makes any sense. You have this experience of light moving through you. Do your eyelids move when it happens?

@Claymoree I'm focusing spiritually. It happens mostly when I am meditating with my eyes closed, but also when my eyes are open, and I am internally focused. It is my eyelids twitching, not my actual eyes. When it happens with my eyes open, my vision is still fine, it's just that my eyelids are twitching. @Osaid Have been doing more research since your post, and it sounds more like myokymia than nystagmus, since it is only my eyelids that are moving.

Thank you, @Osaid. I can't do it at will, it just tends to happen when I am spiritually engaged. For people that have nystagmus, is it a constant thing or can it be triggered? Next time I get my eyes checked, I will ask my optometrist about it. Just did a quick search on nystagmus, and I don't have any of the typical associated problems, like sensitivity to light, dizziness, or vision problems. Also, if I am just sitting here without thinking, it doesn't happen. It's only when I am meditating or connecting spiritually. Maybe my subconscious ego thinks it is a "guru thing" and makes me do it. I wouldn't put it past me If anyone else has any experiences or insights, I would appreciate it.

Funny thing about enlightenment is that you have to realize there is no you to become enlightened, so who is getting enlightened again?

@Shin There is no bear.

It means that you are what is left when every "not this, not that" is discarded. You are Tat.

@PurpleTree Buddha is the ?.

@SirVladimir Walking in the Vatican Gardens, hearing its moonlight music, can you feel its hedges caress you out of yourself, and toss you back into the sky? ?

Nothing like the scent of clean air ?

Great example of why the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The instant you name it, you create a false duality, which it cannot be. The ancient gurus called it Tat, which literally means, "That". Even Tat is a name, which cannot be the eternal Tao.

Ego alert! Let's all sit in a circle and chant @Nahm.

Gotcha. And I mostly agree There are a few, like The Buddha, who seem to have realized, completely free from perspective. He picked up the thin shawl of his personality in order to come back, but he appears to have directly experienced eternal reality, through the infinite lens of eternal reality.

@arlin Noself is all there is. Just because it expresses doesn't mean there is anything real other than it.

There is no you to transcend anything. Enlightened people directly realize that. They don't take life too seriously, but some of them enjoy the game enough to continue playing.

The Kingdom of Heaven is within, remember? You don't have to die to realize heaven. God created us because God loves to create. What else is God going to do?

Noself is the ocean, and wave is its expression.

My sense is that enlightened people no longer seek because they are already found. That doesn't mean they can't continue to learn. Tolle sat on park benches for years, without even realizing why he didn't suffer. It took a Zen master to teach him that.

@from chaos into self If the wave crests in the ocean, does that imply an ultimate duality?