SamC

@Keyhole Interesting points thanks for sharing. I belive it's super important to cover hyper sensitive narccissm though, becuase a lot of people have suffered from a situation where they have been blamed for being narcissistic/ being wrong by people who score high on this type of narccism. More awarness is needed around this so that people can brake out of this dynamic and heal from emeshment trauma + develop a sense of self worth, self concept and self trust in that one can operate for one's best interest. Integrating and seeing your own narccism is of corse really important aswell and yeah all have narcissism in the psyche which needs to be seen, integrated and resolved if one wants to develop to the highest potential. The one doesn't have to exclude the other.

@Keyhole Not sure what you're trying to get at here. This threads goal is to picture and cover highly sensitive narccism.. not cause division. Covering this topic is not a witch hunt. Many people who get into relationships with highly sensitive narcissists are in fact the opposite to a highly sensative narcissistic person. They are often people pleasers and therefor look for the problem inside cause they belive that they are flawed/ wrong. The Higly sensative narcissistic person do the opposite, they project and deflect, and don't reflect. The problem for them is always outside, not inside. The reason why this is important to cover is exactly because of that fact... many people believe they are the narcissist when in fact they are not. Looking for the narccism within yourself is only a problem for those who blame everything on everyone else, for those who project and not reflect.

Theory of knowledge

@Joelvs forgot the tag

What hint on perfektionsim are you talking about? And where did I say they are connected? Hypersensitiv narcisism and low self esteem are connected but at the same time not connected. I don't think you are an example of high scores of hypersensitive narccissm for example. My guess is that it is the opposite. You people please in order to get approval. You see, hyper sensitive narccissm is followed by a different kind of low self esteem which by default is paired with projecting the problem outside. People with the type of fluctuating low self esteem like i think you have do the opposite. You always look for what's wrong with yourself. ( try to fix yourself) This happens because you always try not be wrong because you believe that who you are is wrong because you have always been forced to play a role to fit into your parents narrative. The same dynamic is now mirrored in every relationship you have. You feel " good" when you're able to be the person you think you need to be ( confident and secure) but when you fail playing that role, your confidence and self esteem bleades down on the floor. In other words, you're not authentic, alpha and confident - you're only playing that role because you think you need to play that role to get belonging and love. The solution? You need to learn how to assert yourself, trust yourself and set boundaries with other people. In other words you need to dare to be who you are with other people and not sacrifice yourself for relationships. P.s Your emotions, thoughts, preferences and experiences are valid - don't let someone say that it is your fault or something wrong with you. Cause there is nothing wrong with you! Tip - watch Teal swans vids on emeshment trauma + how to develop self trust. Love

Couldn't agree more?

Ughh. Sounds like a super awful situation, it must have been hard to be around a guy like him. To me he even sounds like full out grandiose narccisst tbh. Ughh, scary people

Very sneakly sneak. They can be everywhere around us

Yeah, and or get's left/ abondend. That's why all narccissts gets abondend sooner or later. One girl I really liked was like like this in a matter of fact and she would always complain about people leaveing her. This is especially amplified if the other person is not assertive because than that person will be drawn to leave in order to regain a sense of separate self which only can happen if the unassertive person is by himself. Now I know why our relationship went to hell lmao.

Great share

My calves are super super tight and it got me wondering, does tightness in your muscles limit or inhibit conciousness work/ enlightenment work in any way?

@snowyowl Strong unflabby muscles lol. I can't even squat. It's becuase I walked on my tipie toes when I was a child. I've tried to fix it in the past with stretching but it didn't worked. @Dancer yeah I should really dedicate to fix it regardless

@Barbara google for the documentary, beyond the visable Agreed, klinth work is mindblowing. Thats a real life purpose right there!

Self compassion work, parts work, feeling the emotions, developing self trust and setting boundaries. It's all about learning to rely on yourself so that you can trust yourself to do what is best for you ( rely on yourself that you always take your best interest )

@Javfly33 That's my zone of genius right there - giving people direct deep insights about themselves. I am glad to help Also. You don't know who you are because you self sacrifice yourself for others. That's your core problem - you think you need to become something else to get what you want and need from other people ( alpha for example). Thus - you people please or in different words PLAY ROLES to get approval, love, acceptance and belonging from people who will " save you" ( neediness) Learning ( which includes daring) to assert who you are is your next step to resolve this problem. I wish you the best of luck!

@Javfly33 Investigate it further! I wasn't there so I can't know. Every single time when I have been alpha, acted cool and attracted some girl to than become super anxious however - I have been playing a role. It's super easy to fall into the alpha Male role trap and than fail to keep up that illusion the next time you talk to the girl. What I am proposing is that the reason you put pressure on yourself was because you where scared of losing her by not being that cool chill guy ( which you desperately want to be) + neediness. Not saying that's the case here, but it sure sounds like it. You need to draw your own conclusions though - I may be wrong, but atleast investigate if there is some substance as to what I am saying.

@Javfly33 Because behaving like an alpha is not you. That's the role you play becuase you feel like you need to play that role in order to deserve the girl. Behind your alpha playing is a need to be approved. If you felt like you was enough, you wouldn't even try to come of as cool and chill. You would be yourself and don't care what other people think... But you do care what other people think and that's why you're concerned of not being alpha and that's why you're scared to assert who you really are, cause when you do - you think you will be rejected. For that reason, you probably don't even know who you are deeply cause you self sacrifice for other people and therefor play different roles. I have the same problem for me mate, you're not alone. I have also experienced the same thing so many times. When you play a role and succeed you know all of the sudden is pressured even more not to fail to play that role.

@Javfly33 I think it is reletad to low self esteem and the thought that you don't deserve her as the man you are. Right now you only sometimes deserve her ( when you're cool and chill or in other words when you manage to play and hide your true self. It sounds to me that you don't feel like you deserve to assert your will ( that you want to fuck her) cause you're scared that what you are Is not enough to attract her.

100% agree. I shouldn't even be here debating. This is my emeshment trauma kicking in. That's why I get so triggered. I should focus on moving people up the spiral instead of demonization and debating spiral dynamics stage green. I'm out, thanks for the discussion. All love@Surfingthewave

@Surfingthewave Lol. Can you see what you're doing? You're telling me that my opinion and perspective is not valid. That's the gaslighting. I have the right to have a different opinion than you just like you have the right to not agree with me. You're undermining my opinion as gaslighting when I have the right to have my opinion. Of corse you're allowed to feel like you're gaslighted but I am equally allowed to state that I strongly disagree with the fact that you actually was gaslighted in that situation. You can feel gaslighted without being gaslighted. Your feelings are valid, your anger is valid, your frustration with sexist dumbfucks in this world is valid. But so are my opinion. Which is what I said. You have to right to feel gaslighted but I have the right to disagree that it was gaslighting. You felt like you're misunderstood and not met with understanding but that doesn't mean I gaslighted you. That's only your interpretation of me disagreeing with you. And that's what I meant with what I wrote. Or in other words. BOTH have the right to their opinion. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I am a gaslighter. https://youtu.be/-ka_g2tdosg Tip, wanna learn more about gaslighting? Watch this vid.

I never said that you didn't feel like a victim or not, all I said that there was no gaslighting. Of corse you felt like a victim otherwise you wouldn't have created the post. It's okey to be a vicitm and I'm not saying that you're not a vicitm, cause obviously you are. I mean by your standards you've been gaslighted by people in the thread aka someone has done something wrong to you and yoy felt that needs to stop( vicitm mentality, you feel misunderstood). You have to right to your emotions and feelings of vicitmhood but I have the right to disagree that it was gaslighting that caused those feelings.

Exactly. Like a narcissist who hurts people who feels like a vicitm. But again Cause no one can judge other people's trauma. You might look at my trauma and say, puhh that is nothing, you're playing vicitm yet I feel like a vicitm. Who get's to decide that? I mean, it was big to me and I feel like vicitm. Who is right than? The person who is sitting on the feelings of vicitm hood or the person who is saying those feelings aren't valid. I mean, I am only guessing but I can imagine your abusive narcissistic X boyfriend used " Your feelings are invalid and wrong manipulation a lot on you ( gaslighting). It doesn't matter what trauma the other person has been thourgh. People can still develop a vicitm mentality, eventhough they are not raped or whatever. Trauma and vicitm mentality take many forms. All emotion and thoughts are valid and no one gets to decide that they are too small, invalid or over exagurted. Victims are vicitms if they feel like they are vicitms.

@Preety_India You talk about manipulation by a grandiose narccisst who use that tactic as a way to manipulate. I talk about someone who legit feels like a vicitm, hence my point. If you FEEL like you're a vicitm. You ARE a vicitm. I mean who gets to decide who is a vicitm or not?

@Preety_India And here is why pointing out the unhealthy manifestations of sprial dynamics stage green on this forum is necessary. You gaslight assumptions of me being wrong and you being right and demonize me and say that I blame, shame and judge victims and can't walk in there shoes. Yet, I never said that - you said that. You don't know my level of empathizing and understanding with victims. As far as you know, I might even be one of those people who have felt like a vicitm or even been abused or molested as a child. You don't know me. You easily get the right to judge me Do you notice the irony? IT IS OKEY TO FEEL LIKE A VITICM but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't shred a light on the fact that the vicitm mentality is not useful for anyone. Pointing that out is not gaslighting, only telling the truth that a vicitm mentality is not something to strive for. Of corse we should meet people who feel like vicitms with love and compassion and understanding and sometimes just listen to them and sometimes help them move up to the victim mentality and away from the " it was my fault mentality". But we shouldn't encourage people to stay there forever. Lastly, there doesn't exsist a destination between being a victim and playing a vicitm. Everyone who feels like a vicitm is a vicitm. It doesn't matter what he or she have been through. Hence it doesn't matter what someone has been thourgh - the " I am a vicitm mentality " is not a benifical belief to hold forever. It is not something to strive for, for most. Tip: Watch Leo's serie on the vicitm mentality! It's super insightful, and has helped me a lot. love

I looked at the thread and I will be completely honest with you, I didn't interpret any gaslighting. My interpretation of what happend was that you found that thread sexist and got triggered by it. That's why you said " keep on dreaming buddy, that's the closest you will get" ( which is a manipulation tactic btw) Just because people say you're wrong or question what you belive doesn't mean that it is gaslighting. But that's of corse how a victim mentality mindset interpret it as. In a matter of fact, you will probably say that I'm gaslighting which actually comically enough is the real gaslighting. I get it. It's super fucking important to fight for equality and your point and opinions are super valid. Maybe that thread was sexsist, but just because some people don't agree with you and vocie that doesn't mean that they are gaslighting. Only that they have a different point of view on the matter. I have been gaslighted myself by a girl who says that everything is my fault and that I should change, so the core message of the post is amazing and super important. Investigate gaslighting! But do it deeply and also look for it within yourself. No one says problems doesn't exsist. Pointing out a victim mentality is not gaslighting. Saying that pointing out when someone has a victim mentality is gaslighting is the real gaslighting.