Mad Cat

Damn that is interesting. Yeah that is quite true. It is impossible for us to really know if something is good or bad for us. It could butterfly effect into anything. So even if fate is largely predetermined, to the endless frustration of your inner control freak convinced of its free will, trying madly to assert it, you could take comfort in the experience that you can't possibly know that anything good will come from getting exactly what you think you want. Life is just too complex for us to predict even though we can't seem to stop trying. Here's an answer from that perspective. One of the Big 5 personality traits, which are thought to be based in genetics, trait conscientious (specifically subtype industriousness) is linked to being a hard worker and on average more career success. So you may very well be right about some people just being naturally more disciplined workers. So what can you do about that? Are you doomed to be lazy as you put it? Well first, watch this video of a psychology professor lecturing about specifically this problem. https://youtu.be/OoA4017M7WU Also I'm wondering, are you attached to the location you're living or would you consider looking for work internationally?

Have you considered that you might have skipped around a critical phase of ego development by diving into ego-dissolving spiritual practices before you succeeded at developing a mature, healthy ego? You know, 'spiritual bypassing'?

The extroverted and introverted question is pretty complicated, because everyone has a mix of both, and behavior can vary drastically depending on which functions are pointed inwards and which are pointed outwards. Some 'I' types are more talkative than some 'E' types For example, INFJ is often mistaken as an 'E' type because extroverted feeling is very people-oriented and interdependent.

@The Alchemist I'm going to say decisively, no, you are only one type! It is certainly possible to program yourself to operate with any of the functions, but over-relying on functions which are not authentic to you is unsustainable and will result in burnout. If you want to clarify your type I DON'T recommend those self-tests or reading descriptions of the types, instead you should read about how the theory works and study the functions directly and trace back through the history of your development to discover which ones are most primary. The primary and auxiliary functions are the ones you develop in childhood, whereas the auxiliary and inferior emerge in later adolescence and adulthood, especially as you get in to self-development. This is a page which explains the theory itself: http://personalityjunkie.com/functional-stack-type-dynamics-theory/ and this page is an introduction to the functions: http://personalityjunkie.com/functions-ni-ti-fi-si-ne-te-fe-se/

Glad to hear that! Yup, that's it. This understanding does not negate the importance of personal development, however, because an immature INFJ will have infinitely more life struggles and unconscious self-sabotaging behaviors than an actualized INFJ who has successfully grown and integrated their weaker functions. It also lends credence to the idea of having a life purpose which can be discovered, because static function preferences mean that there actually is an ideal role one can play in society.

@Natura Sonoris Mmm yes, thank you for pointing that out. Perfectionism can be very problematic, it has been a real struggle to come to terms with the world being fundamentally imperfect and that being an acceptable state of affairs. I can't even honestly say I am totally over it, but I am gradually improving at adopting a more pragmatic approach to life while still trying not to severely compromise the idealism I take such pride in. That's one of the most direct benefits meditation has had for me so far... From the second half of your reply I get the sense that you don't fully understand the underlying mechanism of the MBTI system? Judging is not a bad thing, though it has a negative connotation to it. In fact creating judgments is necessary to parse information and respond to the world. Every type uses a mixture of judging and perceiving functions. Thinking and feeling are both judging functions, whereas sensing and intuition are both perceiving functions. INFJ's functions are as follows: Introverted Intuition Extroverted Feeling Introverted Thinking Extroverted Sensing Since the conscious emergence and healthy development of the functions goes in a top-down order, it makes sense that you would evolve a more balanced judging approach by rounding out your feeling judgments with some good ol' organized introverted thinking. At a certain point on the path of development, the inferior (4th) function emerges from the depths of the unconscious and enters a power struggle with the dominant function. It seems that is what you are discussing when you say you need to "do the opposite of what and INFJ would do" and "just get out of your head and do the actual thing" and that being the key to being "10x better". I agree with that; after all, for every type integrating the inferior function and balancing it with the dominant one is the key to self-actualization. The struggle lies in not letting the inferior function take full control and abandoning your dominant function, which is still ones greatest asset. It's fascinating to see how different people develop within the same archetype... In my personal experience I have naturally and easily questioned anything and everything, including my own ego, for as long as I have been aware of it. This is how my perfectionism expresses itself, constantly checking and rechecking and digging deeper and deeper in search of ever elusive truth and a fuller understanding of life. @Emerald Wilkins Counter-intuitive indeed, but a very insightful observation, since ESTP has extroverted sensing and introverted thinking as their dominant and auxiliary functions. It is exactly those two functions which must be worked on and integrated in the INFJ for them to reach their full potential. @X-ways Hmm, I think the trap is more in believing that the specialness makes you better or worse than anyone else. I find it accurate to say that INFJ has a special role to play in society, but perhaps unique is a better word? @The Alchemist Uhh, sorry to inform you, but you misunderstand. Everybody grows and changes all the time. Change does not preclude the ability to categorize people. In this framework there are 8 functions and everybody uses all of them depending on what the situation calls for. Still, everybody has a type, which is to say that everybody has certain functions which they are innately better at using. Self-development and the successful effort to strengthen your weaker functions, while laudable, does not mean you lack an archetype. Honestly the biggest flaw in this framework is not in the theory itself, but in the widely circulated internet tests which depend on the horrendously fallible method of self-reporting. Self-reporting leads people to believe their personality type is changing over time, when in reality their type preferences are totally static and it is actually the extent of self-knowledge which is changing over time.

Well yeah I agree, in the long-run pursuing passion is the way to go, and mastering any passion can eventually become financially supportive. However there is a large gap between "can eventually become" and present reality, where I am being forced to waste my precious time and energy compromising my life purpose by toiling away in wage slavery in order continue existing, squandering the developmental potential of my rare perspective. Ideally society would want me to support me in actualizing my full potential so I could give back my visionary insights in a manifest way like those famous INFJ's. Like, there is a good reason societies like ancient Egypt fed, clothed, and housed the few unique individuals who had the innate talent to enter the mystery schools. I'm certainly not going to give up pursuing my passion just because of the extra challenge of being underappreciated, but I must say I envy those who can simultaneously do what they were created to do and not have to worry about homelessness and starvation. X.x

@asgard94 There's not much left to say, because Leo came in and killed the mic, quite concisely I might add. Indeed, to attack spirituality, or to perceive that science is under attack, is to miss the point. Both disciplines work together and are necessary for the survival and evolution of human life. I have never seen anyone on this forum dispute that science is a wonderful tool for understanding the external world and inventing pragmatic technology to transcend our physical limitations. Spirituality is also a wonderful tool for understanding the inner world of the psyche and inventing pragmatic practices to transcend our mental limitations. A critical point Leo made is that excessive rationalism blinds itself to its own faults, clinging too tightly to its limitations and damaging itself and the world in the process. Spiritual practice challenges to those limitations, which can be deeply frustrating to a mind which is convinced that everything that exists beyond it's current paradigm is pointless and "dumb". This is not the same thing as spiritual thought disclaiming the efficacy of science within most mundane situations like in your examples. It is only when rationality tries to overstep its bounds (when it confuses the map with the territory) and claims that science is the ultimate, infallible arbiter of what constitutes reality, it is only then that spirituality slaps science back down a peg. If you're interested in learning more about the philosophy of science and where it has mistakenly taken baseless assumptions to be indelible facts, I recommend Science Set Free by Rupert Sheldrake. You may not agree with all of his arguments, but they are valid and thought-provoking to say the least, and you will learn a great deal about the historical evolution of the philosophy of science.

@Epiphany_Inspired Oh hello ^.^ also an INFJ. I totally agree with the common assessment that we are the rarest of all personality types, in my experience we really are 1 in a hundred when you go out in the world and relate with the general population. Though you would never tell in a forum like this, being focused on self-reflection and abstract ideals, introverted intuitives are disproportionately represented. I really love how powerful my intuition is, and how unlike most types I am able to experience and observe it in my conscious awareness. I love seeing straight through the social mask people wear and perceiving their deeper motivations and intentions. Though sometimes it backfires because I see subconscious influences that the people themselves are not aware of, and I've learned that it is counterproductive to confront people with aspects they are not ready to face, so I end up responding to them in ways which they find perplexing. On the other hand, I really dislike how I have a tenuous relationship with concrete physical reality... I am highly vulnerable to sensory overload/overstimulation. And I have such a love/hate relationship with money, I really enjoy nice things which are in line with my values, especially healthy food and sustainablely produced merchandise, but these preferences are more expensive and my skillset is not the sort that society rewards with a decent income. So I struggle with the desire to do work which compromises my values and life purpose in order to make a decent living...

Fair enough, some people truly don't benefit from a large social sphere. However I would argue that there is always, always more to learn from other people, even strangers- if only as mirrors for discovering your own subconscious patterns.

I'm not interested in forcing people to do anything... you decide how to live your life. But I can't help but point out the glaring contradiction... You claim to be interested in personal development, yet you severely limit your own growth by clinging to your comfort zone? Progress is needed most in whatever areas of life that make you most uncomfortable.

@Sigma Wait, what? I don't understand how you got that conclusion out of what I said. I was trying to convey that socializing is necessary for learning about yourself and the world from other perspectives you would not see otherwise. That even superficial people can unintentionally reflect human qualities of astonishing depth if you don't write them off. Sure, time spent reflecting alone is also critical, I never meant to devalue that. I was just point out that it appears that you are underrating social interaction as a mere ego game. On some level it is that, but there is more depth if you look for it.

I would say yes, yes, yes people need to socialize! Even when your primary concern in life is learning and growth, without social interaction you are limited to one narrow perspective on the world which stifles your growth potential. Even using this forum is a form of socializing, what is your motivation to interact here? Also it is worth pointing out that there is more to learn in life than intellectual knowledge- feelings strongly effect human behavior whether you acknowledge them or not, and therefore personal growth is also tied to learning healthier ways to process your feelings. This is something you can practice with anybody, even superficial people who never speak of matters with any intellectual meaning. So there is something to learn about yourself, your humanity, from everybody! I'm not saying that you should put heavy focus on people you don't have any common interests with, just that you shouldn't dismiss them as irrelevant and not worth socializing with at all, because our shared human experience gives us a basic common ground with everyone.

English language usually uses these words interchangeably, however, I find there is a very important distinction. Emotions are typically negative, and always connected to the past; they result from the build-up of unexpressed feelings. Feelings are the same sort of energy, but allowed to flow properly and be expressed in the present moment. The experience of the two is like night and day: when you are gripped by emotion you feel heavy, contracted, disconnected with the other, misunderstood, trapped in old patterns, defensive, etc. However when you experience your feelings and express them freely (positive or negative) you feel light, open, connected, accepted, spontaneous, loving, etc. It can be very difficult to not be dragged in to an emotional state when others around you dredge up their emotions, the best way I've found to deal with this is to take some distance for a short while, go do some physical activity to shake everything up and then come back and communicate about the unexpressed feelings driving the situation out of control.

You keep pushing that question which no one can answer; in other words, you're barking up the wrong tree. There is no magical set of social techniques to smooth out the situations on an external level, because external reality is nothing but a gigantic hall of mirrors. You will continue to attract the vibes which reflect the deeper, internal states of your being which are calling upon your attention. The tricky part about facing the external manifestations of internal rage is that pretty much any response can potentially trigger the anger to escalate. The intention behind the response matters much more than the type of response. The best advice I can offer is that you treat the conversation as if you were speaking with yourself, how would you empathize with your own fury? If you have a bad relationship with your own anger, healing that relationship is likely the key to resolving the conflict, and these reoccurring 'random' encounters with strangers are the world's way of helping you practice. The process can be quite rocky, though, just remember that it is an ongoing dialogue with yourself... "It's always darkest before the dawn" and such