nitramadas

"INTJ are/can be ruthlessly open minded" ..in search of solution to a problem. INTPs don't just stop when they've solved the problem, they remain open minded even after fully completing the task. Just for the fun of it. If we say that INTP = perfect example of Yellow (if healthy). And that INTJ is like INTP, but more judging and serious. What happens when an Orange INTJ turns Green, and then Yellow? Do they continue to judge others the same way? Do they stay as focused on becoming successful? What I was saying is that by becoming more Yellow, they tend to also become more INTP. I don't know any Orange INTPs. Ummm, there's some truth to that, but you still fall into one main stage. I don't think it's that they are "weaker at relationships" or lower stage at relationships. An intellectually inclined Yellow may have less skill at a relationship with a Green than someone at Green. If there are more Greens than Yellows, the Yellow will be "worse" at relationships. It's relative. It's best to figure the stage, and then see how the stage handles each thing, rather than coming up with lots of stages. Though I do hope to see a 3D SD model one day. I'm slowly working on one. Ehm.. I think wanting kids is mostly a Blue & Green thing. I've never wanted kids, though don't feel strongly about that either way, depends on the coming 20 years. lol, it's nothing about servitude or doing "the right thing" or anything like that. Once you've been Green, you just love existence and want to share it. It's just creating more love in the world.

Was just reacting to your demeanour. Don't worry about it. That's what I thought he was gonna say, but the way he worded it "People in the war experience insane connection to their group" made me question this. That is what you say about people who fight and die together, "brothers in arms" or something. The USSR was more like "the great depression" type of situation. You see, the title of the thread was asking for reasons why some may look at the USSR positively.. Not for a balanced analysis. My family is from one of the formerly occupied countries. Although it was a net contributor to the union, and Russia selfishly imported almost all the meat from of the country for itself, it still brought order to things. You don't realize how much Blues value that. Blue is the stage that lives to sacrifice itself for the future, for the afterlife. USSR was almost like a religion in a way. Yeah it's shit, so what? Someone asks what the benefits of Christianity are, I give them. I'm not here to give my opinion, just to share new ideas. I did say a Blue paradise, more specifically, I meant "the concept of a Blue paradise". Many fantasize what could've been, had it continued. Yeah. Poverty has been a thing for all of human history, and still is. I was pointing out the good, having seen the title of the thread Wow, that's news to me, had no idea. Then I take some of that back. : ) Though I hope you realize I wasn't saying the USSR was good, they literally invaded my country and set it back decades, in many ways. I was just answering the title question, and aiming to add new perspectives, as always. If you're actually from Russia, you were on the invading side anyways.. : P Oh and.. you do realize a communist-like system is the future, right? It's not like people will continue to work BS jobs forever. A power imbalance isn't a necessity for society. Capitalism is just the fast-track to a robot-capitalism. When everything is automated and everyone has access to the absolute highest level of education and everything, there's no need for competition between humans. The USSR simply attempted it far too early, with people of a far too low of a stage. I'd have hoped you'd at least see the bigger picture in all this.. I do share the views you express in most of your videos, so I'm assuming you simply misinterpreted my intentions. w-why are you so mean ･ﾟ･(｡இ﹏இ｡)･ﾟ･ Edit: Could this hostility be from assuming I'm Orange? *Sigh* if there only was a way to prove my good, loving intentions.. : ( I'm just direct and unfiltered. Why must people assume the worst? I wish I could say something controversial, and have people still feel the love.. Disclaimer: I have nothing against Orange, It's just that: If Orange says x, you can be sure they meant it in an Orange way. Green doesn't say anything bad, doing everything it can to avoid conflict. Yellow feels free to say anything, disagreement is fine, but it still always tries to convey its positivity and lack of seriousness. Never actually intending to hurt anyone. No. Unbiased-logic, theories, models, big picture thinking, understanding multiple perspectives, systems thinking, seeing value in everything (even religions), "love is all, but not everyone is ready", etc. —Yellow. The manipulation of systems for personal gain, gaining power to have power, having strong beliefs, believing that things are important, judging others for their achievements, rejection of spirituality, thinking religion is stupid, etc. —Orange. Believing in absolute morality, believing "bad" things are "bad" and that simply preventing people from doing them will fix problems, "Gurus" have infinite infallible wisdom, you must always be positive and never show ego, love will solve all the world's problems, orange is evil and must be stopped! —Green There is no need to change anything, trying to change anything is egoistic, it's fine to be egoistic, speaking is limited and unneeded, understanding is limited and unneeded, "it is wise to know nothing", "love is all, everything else is a distraction", teaching almost exclusively through example —Turquoise Have you not seen Leo's videos on this? You might wanna watch the one about stage Yellow. Don't worry, I welcome challenges! If you actually have a reason to think I'm x, do point it out. I've spent a while considering every possibility "maybe I'm just an atypical Orange/Green? Surely, being somewhere between Yellow & Turquoise is extremely unlikely, right? What would be the chances? Maybe I'm biased, and a desire to be a high stage clouds my judgement?" Of course I've entertained such ideas, I'm an INTP, I've thought about this a LOT, (I've typed and staged pretty much every single person I know [I like psychology, ok?] I'm not giving myself special treatment..). I mean, if I was just to go off of Leo's video on Orange, Green, Yellow & Turquoise, I would fall right in the middle of Yellow and Turquoise (leaning more on one or the other depending on the day). I barely identify at all with Orange, and Green just seems immature, and.. "cute" ..somehow. Yellow has, for some months now, seemed a little dull and limited. Having done psychedelics dozens of times; having been studying spirituality for close to a decade now; having little care about my personal success; rarely seeing myself as human; knowing the vibe of different stages (including Yellow & Turquoise); and having constantly tried to prove myself wrong.. I'd be more than a little surprised if I was actually Orange. But you're welcome to give me your reasons for the belief I may be some other stage, if you have any.

That's true, but mostly in a "big picture" sense. These "Gurus" or whatever have usually spent so long in Turquoise that they are unaware of the steps needed to get there. They often never even had to take any steps themselves, they were pretty much born Turquoise. For the same reason, native language speakers tend to make the worst teachers. May sound counter-intuitive at first, but then you realize you don't remember ever actually learning your native language, in your earliest memories you were already fluent. Also, this thinking all you have to do is let go and live care-free is a common trap "new-agers" fall into. They often think: no problems = unaffected by problems = no ego response = no ego It's healthy to challenge yourself and learn to be comfortable with discomfort. Going towards the pain is the quickest path. You could just choose not to engage your mind in problems, and that works to an extent. That's called the "path of surrender". But that alone isn't optimal, and is partly just pain avoidance.

Well they're wrong. How would you get good at running? How much theoretical knowledge would you need? Knowing nothing at all you could reach top tier levels. How do tribes in Africa hunt? They can chase an animal for days. Those people would be considered absolute pros at long distance running, yet they've never studied anything. Meditation is no different. If you're improving, you're doing it right. You can't really get it wrong, especially TM. Can you think of a single way in which you could do TM wrong? The point is to notice yourself failing. If you notice you've failed, you've succeeded.

I'm sure you may be right. Your writing style makes me uncertain of anything about you. You seem to be able to write a lot, but it's very messy and overly verbose. Not at all. Have you seen Leo's Yellow video? It's almost like a description of a healthy INTP. Yellow is individualistic and enjoys modelling/theorising (Ixxx). Yellow sees the big picture and sees the connections between seemingly unrelated things (xNxx). Yellow is logical and wants the best possible outcome, a "win-win-win" if possible. Also models/theories (xxTx). Yellow sees value in all perspectives and doesn't think there's one correct way of doing things (xxxP). Never knew that. Though, in specific applications, I'd imagine INTJs may perform better. INTJs tend to be more focused and goal driven, though "overall" I'd think INTPs have the edge due to greater open-mindedness / creativity / curiosity.

(◉﹏◉;) woah! chill the fuck out dude! You really are far from it..

I don't think the USSR was a battlefield type situation for most people.. lol .. ok. Great insight.

lol, how old are you kid? What are you living for? Praise? Respect? Fun? Nothing can ever be objectively better than something else. Everything just achieves some specific function. Do you like what playing video games achieves? Is there anything that achieves the same thing, but more efficiently?

Would you say engaging the intellect is "mental masturbation"? If you're alive, you're doing something. Enjoying the intellect is no less valid of an activity than.. playing video games? making money? learning? conversations? having fun? It's all the same. Hence why I said I suspect you may be some kind of "healthy Orange". Not necessarily interested in success that much, perhaps feeling successful enough and having a sense of security. The above quote and your previous post, but mostly the INTJ / Orange vibe are what make me suspect this. Again, I could totally be wrong. The only reason you'd lose interest is if you've gone past Yellow, which I'd think is unlikely. Unless.. you've never truly delved into the theoretical and abstract, in which case you'd be going into Green. INTx types are more difficult as the people who feel the need to develop an intellect typically do so so to distance themselves from emotion or boredom. This distance hides who they really are. At Green they tend to start losing this distance/mask, but you still seem to have it. I can usually tell when someone's gone past the Green barrier, hence my concern..

Hmm? Didn't mean to trigger anyone.. As I said, my whole family grew up in the USSR, yet you're absolutely convinced your idea of what the USSR was is more accurate? Wouldn't have expected this from you.. I had a grandad who was sent off to a Gulag in Siberia, he eventually ended up walking thousands of miles back home, barefoot iirc. Another side of my family lost everything from being ransacked by the Soviet army. Please don't take such a condescending tone when you, an upper-middle class American, haven't even been affected by the USSR, and have experienced no tragedy in your family as a result of the union. Yes, throughout its long history it's been awful at times, I simply shared the perspective of the the average person. After the collapse, entire towns became abandoned, entire industries.. I have generations of family history from the region, where do you get your info from? I'm sure you wanted me to support some "x = evil" agenda, but no one's gonna learn anything from that. That's like saying "Hitler was bad". Why would I parrot common knowledge? I could write a 50000 word essay on why communism failed, but I'm trying to get past such Yellow tendencies.. I'm trying to settle for just "expanding perspectives" now. No logical deductions or overarching theories, not worth my time explaining all that; and I'm just bored of Yellow I guess..

So if you have 5 second to type someone, you decide to try to work out their 8 functions? lol. The MBTI model + SD stage + TriType are the central points of reference I use for people. Controversial? Sure, among INTx, but being the intuitive type, I've developed strong "feelings" for each MBTI & stage. I'm pretty damn accurate at understanding people with this. (e.g. A week ago some random guy wrote like 2 generic sentences, I told him his MBTI and stage, "100%" he says. Typing is fun.) TriType then helps me narrow it down very finely. From what little I've seen, you may be slightly more likely to be a "healthy Orange", though you're a little atypical and not as easy to type as most people. (Mandatory: Could be wrong..)

The soviet times were pretty good. Everything was taken care of, things were being built, the world was becoming more connected. It was like a Blue paradise (parents/grandparents actually lived in the USSR). The sense of progress and non-duality unity was lost with the fall of the union. For many, the soviet times also remind them of their childhood. Doesn't matter how bad, childhood tends to be looked back on fondly. Now, if you're, however, referring to the 'Murican stage Green movement, that's a bit different. With the rise of stage Green, so too comes the rise of Green ideology: "love" = "production of love" = "caring" = "sharing" = "sharing production" = "production no longer controlled by the few" = "production seized by the many". ..and that's why Greens are communists.

JOURNEY (2012)

Uhh, this is where it gets complicated. I see types and functions as different models. If someone is clearly introverted, they are an Ixxx, functions are not taken into account. Like it or not, this is how the model tends to be used and is how it should be used, as you can't say someone is introverted, but actually, they're extraverted "because of some technicality you'll have to look up". Besides that, they are both INTx. That says a lot. The reason I get along with INTJs is because of their INTx nature. The example I used earlier, Andrew Yang, he's introverted, intuitive and thinking.. THAT is the important bit. That his thinking is extraverted doesn't bother me much, it still means he's a "thinking man".

w-what?! You're telling me.. you're a Yellow INTP? Ayyyyyy! Yeah, pretty much my thoughts. Though I don't know many INTPs, and considering INTP is the more open-minded and curious INTJ I think it's worth investigating this "pure theory" : ) It happens to align closer to Yellow values than INTJ (or probably every other type too). I wonder if you really skipped Green or if it's just expressed differently in INTPs. A Green INTP is still gonna be introverted and theoretical.

..and that's how the universe checks if you're paying attention. Or rather, helps you check yourself checking it. Means nothing, just brings you to stage Green (generally).

Yes.

lmao u wot m8? (^～^;)!? lmao, I can't stop laughing..（≧U≦） lol, that's hilarious. Ummm.. ever heard of YouTube? You don't even need that. You know how to have thoughts? Can you repeat them? Well you've just graduated from my 20th-degree-black-belt-TM™ course. You can forget the rest, you won't need it. Really, you won't.

Challenge yourself constantly for no reason. Ever stayed up for 3 days? No? Do it, you won't gain anything. Ever been addicted? Get addicted and go through withdrawals for no reason. Ever been homeless for a decade? Do it. Pick fights with everyone & lose as much as you can, being as pathetic as you can be. Get everyone to hate you and make life hard for no reason. This is the way.

Pretty sure this has been covered by LeoVids. Do have to say tho. "Is it wrong to.." is the most stereotypically Blue phrase I've ever heard. There is no authority that will tell you..

Seems like you're expecting a specific answer.

As an INTP.. this is a mess. Oh.. and, since I'm here. Is there a correlation between INTP and Yellow? It's like INTP is the natural evolution of the INTJ. But I'm sure absolutely no one else sees this connection.. (Yeah, plenty of exception e.g. Andrew Yang, but even then, being driven for anything is almost always gonna be immature)

*wakes up* *Yaaaaaawn* *looks around* .. *proclaims..* "It takes an ego to kill an ego."

This goes against every interpretation of the model I've heard of and robs it of any real value imo. What makes SD useful is that it guides you and informs you of what you should be aiming for. It would also be a blatant mistake to think someone at Red has elements of Turquoise or is capable of understanding the motivations of Green. The stages aren't 'personalities' or 'parts we all have some amount of' like you seem to believe. Don't mistake them for a rainbow or something just because they're named after colors, those are just made up names. Each stage is complete in itself and capable of containing every personality type. A society could, in theory, be made up of 100% Red (though much more likely Purple & Red). A thousand years ago, Turquoise, essentially, didn't exist. Neither did Yellow. Blue was the peak for a very long time. The stages are levels of awareness. Their common traits are just that. It's like when a kid learn the word "why" and starts constantly asking their parents "why" for a period of type. Is it because "everyone has a bit of 'the why phase' in them" and the kid actually always had it and always will? Or is it because they've gained awareness of the existence of the concept of "why" and is now just going through a phase? Gaining awareness = something's changed = behavioral changes = [insert description of SD stage here] You seem to be unaware of the fundamental awareness component and believe the SD stages are nothing more than their common behavioral manifestations. Perhaps this is why they say SD is a Yellow+ model (all models really). "Placing a center of gravity for oneself in this model" is the very core idea of the model and is the only thing that "holds up to scrutiny". Have you not seen Leo's videos on this? This isn't really something being debated. You have a centre somewhere, and it can be blurry where, but it's definitely somewhere. Green is the "anti-hierarchy" stage, so of course, you're gonna be predisposed to such Green ideas, as you've demonstrated.. Can you see now how everyone's a specific stage? Within 3–10 seconds of reading what someone's written I can identify what stage they are. If everyone had every stage, this would be impossible. Everyone always falls into one. It is because of this fact that I can predict people's behavior to ..a scarily accurate degree. By this I mean I creep myself out by predicting what I didn't think I should be able to "surely, people can't be that simple; that algorithmic.." and then it plays out like I guessed. So far, every single person who's challenged me in any way on this forum has been extremely consistent for the stage I determined them to be—not a single exception. Greens act Green; Oranges act Orange; Blues act Blue.. I guess that's about it.. lol. Not enough data on T2. Like I said, each stage is complete in itself. You're not seriously suggesting that everyone you know has some Red, Yellow and Turquoise in them are you? Ever heard of "transcend and include"? Even if you think the stages are just "personalities", each stage transcends the prior one and includes it. But since the stages are not personalities and are, instead, levels of awareness, your stance makes even less sense. s-sure.. you totally didn't realize it could be interpreted as aggressive.. err.. Maybe you hadn't notice, but I'm an INTP : ) ..Not INTJ. I don't judge. (＾▽＾) If it looks like I'm judging, it's in the way you'd judge people who like pineapple on pizza. I """judge""" people *intellectually* or in *personality* or *how their taste relates to my own* I might call out the lower stages on their BS, but it's not that I judge them, it's just that I'm one of the few that has the capability to notice their problems. And, sure, since SD is a hierarchy, disclosing my stage could, potentially, elevate me in some way. But that's not much different to someone saying "I'm an American!". Being part of the world's only superpower could elevate someone in some social situations. But that's fine. Not my problem (in fact, can't be my problem) if someone gets upset at me stating the facts. Umm, maybe read what I said to the other guy.. (◠﹏◠;) Of course! : ) You must've been in Green for a while now ..this is almost the kind of thing I would say.. ヽ( •_)ᕗ There's a bit more to it that that (..though it's beyond stage Green.. [lol, there's no way to say that without sounding arrogant..] I know Green and there are things not worth bothering with.) Hmm, sounds like I should say "what I said to the other guy". Yeah, that's an important thing to learn. Usually comes around the end of Green and can last up until early Turquoise ime. This is where Green can slowly start becoming Yellow. The downsides of collectivism start becoming apparent, subconsciously. The Green stops talking about rainbows and happy hippy ideas of consciousness; stops judging hierarchies; and stops judging those who don't judge hierarchies. I'd say it's an awareness barrier when talking about SD. It's not that people could just get a reference book and understand you after a day/week/year/decade/century of study. Blues who are in their 40s now have almost no chance of ever becoming Orange. It's not just a lack of knowledge. You can't upgrade a computer by adding more stuff to its HDD. That stuff may be useful in some practical way, but the computer won't be any better. Though, acid can defrag the HDD, and that can be pretty healthy for someone who's never defragged and isn't too ancient. Ah. The classic "Orange→Green" transformation. *pats you on the back twice* .. No. Haven't you been listening? Hmm, you mean like.. creating stage-specific sections for the forum in which users could give questions to the people at each color section? And where people of the same color could talk amongst themselves knowing the conversation will not stray away from that stage? Like what I was saying earlier in this thread? lol. Well, I agree with your agreeing with me.. I, too, am in favor of segregating people of color. At least we can agree on that : )

Imagine a massive, infinite cube of data, it has the data that fits all of our human senses. For every mm you move down you get a new bit of data. You're awareness, and you're falling through it. As you do, you hit 1000 bits of this data every second on average. Humans have 5 primary senses. Lets say each sense can only take in 1 bit per second. As you're falling through the cube, those 5 senses get filled up so fast you don't even notice any lag time. This is as there are more bits than the senses can take in. Your senses get so overwhelmed with this data that you can't make it "glitch" no matter what. You move your hand as fast as you can, yet the visual data keeps up. You don't get error messages or anything. You senses get filled up so fast that you become convinced it's all real. What happens if you fall faster? Time goes faster as you're pushing into those bits faster. What if you have a glider? You can alter the direction you're falling. It's a cube, not a line for a reason.. So does time exist? Well, the cube is always the same. If you're the cube, there is no time. But if you're just 5 senses falling through a random piece of the cube? So the falling consciousness/senses and the cube itself always stay the same. But unless you're the cube, you're always falling. If you can send a sense further down the cube, further than you currently are, you can see the future. But you have to remember, it's a cube, you and everyone else rarely follow an exact straight line down. I can predict the future with 100% accuracy, but it's not necessarily gonna be the future I end up at. There is no real reality. What we call real is just the path we're currently falling through. The present moment. Everything else is equally real, just maybe somewhere in the distance. "Real" is the bias we give to wherever we happen to be at the moment. Keep in mind I used a lot of metaphors here. This is beyond-Yellow stuff so it's gonna be a little abstract.