Breakingthewall

Exactly, self is the fact of being conscious. Don't need to be formulated as "I", but it is. A cat has it, or a new born baby. In totally open meditation where there is no sense of I, observer, center, only an ocean of life or being, there is still recognition of existing

Zero self is just when the self and the reality are exactly the same, I would say open self better. Means that there is not "consciousness" in the sense that there is not sense of observer, but still reality is aware of itself, then saying zero self and those expressions is like feeling interesting or anything. It's just a psychological state, nothing else, nothing magic . But in that state it's obvious that the reality and you are one, nothing else. Nothing about "infinite consciousness" or anything special

I think that all of them need to transmit anything ineffable, special, because otherwise nobody would pay attention, then they say things like "there is nobody here" to create in the audience an image of mystery and freedom. And maybe they didn't develop a clean conceptual frame, they have read Buddhism, neo advaita, etc. Thats doesn't mean that the are a fraud, but I wouldn't pay attention to those expressions, are a mess

If you accept an advice, never believe any realization on psychedelics. Use them for deconstruction, not for construction. If you use them to look directly to your fears, there is no deception because there is not structure. But if you realize that life is this and that, most probably is your ego empowered by a drug

Yes everyone know that money doesn't bring real happiness and that but this doesn't mean that some millionaires can't have a happy life. Maybe not perfect like Buddha but great majority of people neither. At least that people have a vector, a passion. Nowadays more and more people is getting like irrelevant, without purpose, isolated and crazy. I think it's good to see it, because if you finish in that dead end, things could become dark

Do you think that bezos, Trump or bill gates are depressed because they feel empty? I don't think so, they are obsessed with power and that keep them alive. Maybe it's egoic, superficial or anything but they love it

Sure, if you're physically attractive and successful, your appeal multiplies, but if you're unable to connect on a deep level, to show yourself naturally, to eliminate the need for acceptance, to stop seeing only the surface and start seeing the substance of interactions, you'll end up in a miserable relationship, no matter how much money and beauty you have. And this use to mean a deep miserable life. This game is not a game, it's real life.

Maybe you don't get depressed because you would be deeply stupid, that's why you reached that point. I don't say stupid as an insult, I have been so stupid in many fields that's unbelievable, but that's the human nature, when you are in a specific emotional level, you are there and nobody can show you anything except what you can see. Imo a couple of things are important in life. Put your energy working is something that you really like, or better, love. Be able to build deep and real true relationship and see the real value of them. We are not islands, pleasure seekers, that's a mistake. Living putting the best of yourself in the game every moment.

How's possible having that realization? It's a structural paradigm that belongs to the conceptual mind, then seems difficult to admit that a subjetive realization means that the reality is in that way.

Agree, nothing wrong with logical mind, I mean just for meditation. As you said conceptualization can be aligned with the nature of reality, that's essential to be able to free the mind

It's a conceptualization of a reality that was. Obviously the past doesn't exist, but it existed. Nobody think that the past exist, but the now has this relational structure as a result of a previous condition.

Time is the measurement of one process from another, not an entity in itself. Saying that only the present exists doesn't seem like a useful statement. The past consists of the relational processes that occurred and gave rise to the current configuration; the future is the prediction of the present relational situation, taking current processes into account. It's obvious that the future and the past don't exist now, but they existed before and will exist after as a possibility, whether they are recorded in our minds or not. So, what do you achieve by saying they don't exist? You could say: the past doesn't exist now as a present, but have existed and the structure of this present is the result of it. The human mind can represent past and future, it'd a great ability, absolutely essential for survival.

The goal in deep meditation is not to silence the mind; silencing the mind is a means. Imo the first step is to place yourself in a position where meaning is deactivated. There is no meaning; any thought that arises is the same as any other. This isn't easy because we live attached to conceptual meaning since we survive thanks to it, but it is possible to deactivate it. If meaning loses its power, thoughts begin to slow down until they almost cease. Then you are left in a position where your mind is a landscape completely devoid of structure; there is only presence, I am. But even here there is still contraction; you can perceive it in your breath, your body, and also in your silent mind (yes, you need some meaning to know this, dosting out exactly the necessary meaning is key) I am is like a safety capsule; it is closed. The goal is to open it. You focus on your fear, on perceiving the contraction, and then sometimes I am opens. There is no longer a sense of "awareness of," of a perceiving center, but rather there is reality, period. I and I am merge, and instantly the boundaries fall away; the contraction is zero. So what remains is an ocean of life, of being, without definition or limits, but that is exactly what you are. Absolute freedom without the slightest contraction. If you try to interpret, the contraction returns instantly. Interpretation must be zero to maintain openness. If you can do this for a few minutes each day, you will live connected.

I think it's just more complex, life is just a process that occurs when conditions allow. There is no intention; rather, the very quality of existence is expansive, emitting potentiality that is realized if possible, because there are not absolute limits. Simple life has no self; a self arises when a model of reality is created in a brain, at least from we can see. This does not imply that the self is not real. If a self that knows it exists appears in reality , then reality is or has a self that knows it exists. The fact that reality acquires self-awareness is possible and therefore inevitable, then you could say that reality is self aware

Essentially, the ocean is not separate from the land either, since both are made up of interactions of the same fundamental fields, but locally they are separate and have different properties. Everything that exists is made up of interactions and boundaries that occur as processes, but a living being has a particularity, it's not like a wave in the ocean that happens inevitably due the properties of water, but it's a process that self preserves, perpetuates and creates it's particular laws creating another level of separation inside/outside.

Real means that is. It's the same if you are one, two, illusion or anything, you are, or existence is. Being is everything, then it happens as self awareness. You could say that this self awareness is illusory because it's not two or anything, but that's just a valoration. The fact is that you are and that structure of being is aware of being

No because a tree is not a self aware procces, but a human is. Both are equally real. It's the same in order of the level or reality . The perception is the reality, and the external world also is the reality. Nothing exist separate, everything that happens is relational, but everything is real. You could say that you are wrong thinking that tomorrow will rain, but the thought itself is the reality manifested as a thought, same than the idea about that thought is wrong

There is separation between the sun and the moon, they are two different structures with different properties. The reality can be one, but many relative limits appears, then saying that are not real is wrong, saying that are relative would be right. Why anything relative is not real if it exist?

Self means being aware of being, you don't need to be separate to that. Anyway, a human is a process that is not ontologically separated of the universe but it creates a separation while it's happening, that's any living being. Then a self appears, you could say that it's not fundamental or permanent, but it exists.

@Sugarcoat I would say that Lisa Cairns experiences what many mystics do. They reach a state of limitlessness, then create a logical framework that is a mess. For example, in one video she says that awakening happens when you realize that everything is you, and in another that there is no you. Both statements are logical constructs. Awakening is not a logical construct but the opening to your limitless nature. Then, saying that you have realized that the moon doesn't exist and that baby Jesus cries if you touch yourself, or that you must fight in jihad, depends on your mental framework. These teachers confuse unstructured states with structures that they "become aware" of. Logic is structure, openess is without structure. Then they merge both because they are totally focused in absence of structure and they say things like: reality is pure consciousness. Everything is imaginary. Nothing exist. Reality is nothing. Then the people read it and change their structural frame for that mess and come to forums to say that are enlightened repeating that nothing is real or anything

I think the same. "Self" means experience. There are 3 levels imo. First the self full of identification due the human need of belonging. This need is genetically uncoded and very strong. Not always same strength, some individuals are more free of that. I'm not one of them, but maybe you are, some are more inclined to spirituality because their structure, let's say less dense. Second is the pure I am in meditation. Absolutely empty of anything, just the I am, the feeling of being, of existing. Not a thought that says "I am" but the very fact of being conscious is the I am. 3, when the I and the am lose their limits and the structure collapse. There is no more "consciousness ", because it implies being aware of. There is the reality, period. Zero structure, then it's like a ocean of life without any distinction. This is the no self that they talk about But look, that no self really is the self without limits, because there is still experience, register, knowledge. What happens is that you made a movement to dissolve the natural structure in order to break the barrier that prevents you to realize the nature of yourself. It doesn't mean that there is no self but that the self become the whole and the whole become the self. Now I remember perfectly that yesterday I did that movement for 10 minutes, then saying that of no self is just a mess without sense imo

Yeah, I'm not one of the choosen who know the truth. Poor stupid scientist omg, are like kids. Maybe I should do psychedelic, realize god and then be above of them. Just in a while in your room you surpass Einstein, Tegmark or Roger Penrose. Seem a good business.

If perceived reality is a mental construct, it remains absolutely real. Moreover, this mental construct is modeled on a constant exchange of information with the outside world. Reality is one, but consciousness, or the mind, is a local process that acquires stability and structural independence from the outside, even though it is entirely interdependent with the whole. The subjective reality that this mind generates is as real as anything else; it is reality in the form of subjective experience. Its substance is exactly the same: the dynamic flow of reality. To say that it is imaginary is to say that on one hand there is reality, and outside of it, the mind. This is obviously impossible.

Yes i know your religion. It's funny that if you observe the reality its absolutely obvious that consciousness or awareness is a process that happens in complex organisms where a model of the exchange of information happen. It's not "materialism", this process is the reality becoming conscious. But spiritual people are smarter, they know that all that you can see is a deception because god is making fun of us, and everything is imaginary, earth is flat and the chem trails make us weak. You could know it if you do psychedelic and you realize it. Well.... nothing, that's ok

I don't know, explain it if you can