Breakingthewall

Nothing, sorry for being idiot. Anyway, anyone has his own vision and opinion

@Mellowmarsh artificial is natural. Humans are something that appears in the reality, not out of the reality, as Krishnamurti implies

Maybe it's not for you. Read this: reality is not real. Now nothing is happening. God is nothing but it's absolute love. Better?

I already did two messages above

Read it. Krishnamurti says that the present is the truth and the past false, then the kid sees the bird and that is true, but if he interpret about the bird that's false, because comes from the past. Well, the brain, the bird, the perception, everything has a previous condition, same than interpretation, but interpretation happen now. For k the interpretation is out of the reality, the reality is without interpretation. He's totally wrong, creating dualities all time. He also say that humans are wrong from thousands of years ago. Maybe life is also wrong, with all those killings. Remember to me when I read him with 17. He almost convinced me that searching and thinking is wrong. Then I decided that he was just a scammer , and today I ve been reading his conversation with bhom and I realized that I was totally right

Lets analyze this quote because represent the thought of Krishnamurti. According to him, the direct image of the bird is the essence of the bird. This image is formed by the posterior lobe of the child's brain based on the photons captured by the retina. According to Jiddu, this is the truth. However, if the child learns things about the bird, which are stored in the frontal lobe and the default mode network, and the structure created by the frontal lobe is superimposed on the image of the bird created by the posterior lobe, this is false. So, according to him, the posterior lobe is the truth and the frontal lobe the lie? That's strange. Perhaps he doesn't understand that any perception requires interpretation. Without minimal interpretation, you wouldn't even see the bird; you wouldn't distinguish it from the background. You would see a mixture of colors and disconnected sounds. A cat, if it sees a bird, interprets it as food. Perhaps it isn't enlightened. If I take 7 gr of mushroom I don't see a bird, I see a brunch of colors and waves. It doesn't seem more true than the bird. It's just without structure . Krishnamurti's entire discourse has absolutely no relation to enlightenment. He's just a guy pretending to be mysterious and profound, accumulating nonsense upon nonsense. His skill in convincing some people of his genius is commendable. The perception is the reality in the form of perception. The interpretation is the reality in the form of interpretation. Deep meditation is a state that is possible being human and interpretation is another. No one is false, and of course, no one is unreal, out of the reality. Meditation is the ability to dissolve all the limits, then the perception becomes unlimited. That doesn't mean that you perceive unlimited things and you are omniscient god, but that the fact of unlimited being is perceived by itself. Interpretation is the ability to perceive the limits and it's not false, it's limited. And Krishnamurti is a professional scammer, same than almost all the gurus

What is the purpose of that mess? All that are conceptual structures creates by the logical mind, with the problem that are not logical.

Sure, but it's different if you imagine it than if it's real. Look, this is crazy: if you imagine that you cut your hand with a knife, after your hand is still there, but if you really cut it, then no more hand.

How could you realize that you are imagining reality? Like in some point high of drugs you say: I'm imagining reality? Then your feeling is that's this is the absolute truth? You would agree that this is a subjetive appreciation right?

You said that you have cats right? You can't see them? Only the word "cat"? Like if you were a computer?

What is important is that you feel safe, then believe what makes you feel good, that what spirituality is about right? To give hope and sell books

Wow so amazing explanation. Yeah you convince me, I was wrong, sorry. Charisma is everything. If someone with the juddus look said, it's directly true. James the wise man approved.

Bit exaggerated right? the name immediately erase the direct perception. You can know the name and also have direct perception, and most of kids have. Krishnamurti says those so impact "truth" that are just false. If you analyze his speech it's full of that. He sounds wise and secure and he says tons on nonsense that sounds profound for some people who are deeply lost. Smart guy. Do you think that Attenborough can't observe directly a bird for example? He knows the names, all the conceptual stuff of birds, and still he can see the nature directly. It doesn't depends about concepts but about defense. the teach of jiddu is wrong in its basis, but anyway, sounds good for some people, that's enough for them.

Exactly, self is the fact of being conscious. Don't need to be formulated as "I", but it is. A cat has it, or a new born baby. In totally open meditation where there is no sense of I, observer, center, only an ocean of life or being, there is still recognition of existing

Zero self is just when the self and the reality are exactly the same, I would say open self better. Means that there is not "consciousness" in the sense that there is not sense of observer, but still reality is aware of itself, then saying zero self and those expressions is like feeling interesting or anything. It's just a psychological state, nothing else, nothing magic . But in that state it's obvious that the reality and you are one, nothing else. Nothing about "infinite consciousness" or anything special

I think that all of them need to transmit anything ineffable, special, because otherwise nobody would pay attention, then they say things like "there is nobody here" to create in the audience an image of mystery and freedom. And maybe they didn't develop a clean conceptual frame, they have read Buddhism, neo advaita, etc. Thats doesn't mean that the are a fraud, but I wouldn't pay attention to those expressions, are a mess

If you accept an advice, never believe any realization on psychedelics. Use them for deconstruction, not for construction. If you use them to look directly to your fears, there is no deception because there is not structure. But if you realize that life is this and that, most probably is your ego empowered by a drug

Yes everyone know that money doesn't bring real happiness and that but this doesn't mean that some millionaires can't have a happy life. Maybe not perfect like Buddha but great majority of people neither. At least that people have a vector, a passion. Nowadays more and more people is getting like irrelevant, without purpose, isolated and crazy. I think it's good to see it, because if you finish in that dead end, things could become dark

Do you think that bezos, Trump or bill gates are depressed because they feel empty? I don't think so, they are obsessed with power and that keep them alive. Maybe it's egoic, superficial or anything but they love it

Sure, if you're physically attractive and successful, your appeal multiplies, but if you're unable to connect on a deep level, to show yourself naturally, to eliminate the need for acceptance, to stop seeing only the surface and start seeing the substance of interactions, you'll end up in a miserable relationship, no matter how much money and beauty you have. And this use to mean a deep miserable life. This game is not a game, it's real life.

Maybe you don't get depressed because you would be deeply stupid, that's why you reached that point. I don't say stupid as an insult, I have been so stupid in many fields that's unbelievable, but that's the human nature, when you are in a specific emotional level, you are there and nobody can show you anything except what you can see. Imo a couple of things are important in life. Put your energy working is something that you really like, or better, love. Be able to build deep and real true relationship and see the real value of them. We are not islands, pleasure seekers, that's a mistake. Living putting the best of yourself in the game every moment.

How's possible having that realization? It's a structural paradigm that belongs to the conceptual mind, then seems difficult to admit that a subjetive realization means that the reality is in that way.

Agree, nothing wrong with logical mind, I mean just for meditation. As you said conceptualization can be aligned with the nature of reality, that's essential to be able to free the mind

It's a conceptualization of a reality that was. Obviously the past doesn't exist, but it existed. Nobody think that the past exist, but the now has this relational structure as a result of a previous condition.

Time is the measurement of one process from another, not an entity in itself. Saying that only the present exists doesn't seem like a useful statement. The past consists of the relational processes that occurred and gave rise to the current configuration; the future is the prediction of the present relational situation, taking current processes into account. It's obvious that the future and the past don't exist now, but they existed before and will exist after as a possibility, whether they are recorded in our minds or not. So, what do you achieve by saying they don't exist? You could say: the past doesn't exist now as a present, but have existed and the structure of this present is the result of it. The human mind can represent past and future, it'd a great ability, absolutely essential for survival.