Breakingthewall

What is the self according to you? Would you say that Ramana, Ramakrishna, Jesus, al hallaj , rumi, etc, were ignorants and you are the only enlightened? Or maybe you are misunderstanding any point? Just curious. Again: the self is the recognition of existing. It the recognition of existing and illusion?

Everything is changing, a tree is changing every millisecond. That doesn't mean that it isn't real, everything is a process, nothing is static

There is a process that is happening. This process includes what we call consciousness, in which a subject is represented that interacts with the outside world and needs to self-preservation. In this dynamic process called consciousness, the subject is represented as the center, but this doesn't imply that it's false. There is a real organism that constantly exchanges information with the outside world and interacts with other conscious subjects, and that can die, live, or reproduce based on this interaction. Where is the illusion? It's all completely real. You could say that the process that is happening is not permanent, it's a construction of the reality interconnected with everything else, it's not independent, but it exists. The sense of self if the recognition of being that happens is this process, and also it's absolutely real.

Then those people I mentioned were just narcissist, or not smart enough to realize what true enlightenment is? I repeat again: the self is the fact of knowing that you are, it's a process that's happening, and it's real, because there is knowledge of being.

Yes but also the king and the archbishop believed they could go to hell. Hindus believed this too, the Romans could go to Tartarus, and Buddhists to multiple hells and horrible reincarnations. There has always been an intuitive idea of cause and effect.

Ok, let's say that I agree. Then I could say that those women are completely incapable of giving love and life to their children because they are neurotic people trapped in their self-image, living in a state of perpetual semi-depression. Perhaps from the outside they appear high-class, but perhaps an illiterate woman from a village in the Congo has the open heart that they have closed, and that is what a mother will give her children: an open heart, not comparative neurosis. So who is worse in the dating market? Honestly I don't know

Who said that you made the clouds? Seems that you can't understand the idea then you put down the other as a defense. Read again those narcisists: Al hallaj: I am the truth. Nisgardatta: I am that Ramana maharshi: the reality is the I Jesus: I'm the path , the truth and the life Before Abraham, I am Upanishads: Brahman is the self Shivaism: I am Shiva Meister Eckhart: the eye with god see me is the eye with I see god Rumi: you are not a drop in the ocean, you are the ocean in a drop Or in simpler words; the reality is. You are. Then, you are the reality. Where is the mystery? It's quite obvious. You are a process that is happening in the reality, so you are the reality in the form of a process that knows that it is. "Knowing that you are" is the self, so if there is knowledge of being, there is self. You could say that you feel that there is no self, but you know that you are, so there is self, I'm sorry for telling you that shocking new, but it's real.

Yes sure, but the point is what is the character. Usually we mean the idea of ourselves built in the social interaction, and this must be transcended to be free What I mean is that saying that this idea is false is not a help for this transcending that is It is sought because the social self is not an illusion; it is a genetically encoded human construct that provides tribal cohesion, creates civilizations, and makes people fight over symbols. It is a real and very powerful force. To say it isn't real traps you in its grip, irrevocably.

Agree, the thing is where that will points. To be integral, true, to give your best, to love and to build, or maybe to win, to be great, to have pleasure, to be loved, liked and admired, so to take. Imo the vector is the key Well, what about those women? Are much better? Maybe they seem mature, self confident, ambitious , but then you realize that what is inside them is only the need to fit in and his soul is sold out. I'm not saying everyone is like that, nor are all men like the average dude you mentioned.

You can set all sorts of goals for yourself, but in a relationship, you'll be who you truly are. Your emotional makeup will surface, and nothing can stop it. Furthermore, if you try to act a certain way to achieve a certain goal, and that's not what truly comes from within you, you'll only confuse the other person, leaving them unsure of who they are until time and crises have passed, and then they could see your true face.

I hope she gets perfect from the surgery, that's good that you have a mother and that you connect with her in this situation, she's lucky. Imo any living being fears death, it's inherent with the fact of being alive. I guess that if you do your best in this life, when death comes you will face much better that if you have been a shit, that's why the religions talks about hell. Anyway, fear is inevitable, same than suffering, it comes with life.

I feel good enough, I want to make a perfect map not a map for relief

Your logical mind has the same basis than the reality, in fact it's the reality in the form of a logical mind, not something illusory or false. Then it could be aligned with the structure of the reality

Is right because it's aligned with the real structure of the object of that understanding

I don't think so, there is only one correct understanding and many wrong understanding. The idea is get as close as you can of the right one, not believing what makes you feel better just because a seller of books told it

Your identity has many layers and no one is false, you could say that are relative. You could say that ultimate what you are is being, then it's the same you, me, a stone or anything, but that doesn't mean that the process that's happening, the manifestation of the fact of being, is false. Imo if you say that the only thing that you get is confusion. That's why those spiritual teachers sounds so mysterious, just because their mental map is wrong

Reality is absence of límits from which coherent equations that sum zero arise, which branch without limits

An human being is a process, this process includes many things, and one of them is the act of knowing, of creating a temporal map anticipating the future by connecting it with the past, integrating memory, emotions, learning, and genetics. This process is the self, and it is the force of life made knowledge and vector. To say that it is unreal, as "adya" does, serves as comfort to depressed people, which is something, but it is simply false.

You're confusing two states of mind. One is meditative, in which there is no structure; reality simply is. In this state, you don't know that the self is unreal, nor what "I" means, nor anything at all. But there's another state, which is the structured, logical mind, capable of creating symbolic diagrams and maps of the structure of reality. This logical mind can understand a great deal, perhaps everything. To say that it's false, that it should be turned off, is obscurantism. What needs to be done is to use it properly. For example, when you say that the self isn't real, you're saying it using the logical mind, and it's the self that's making the assertion. That's not the right way to do it because implies a logical impossibility

Because you are in a moment of total relaxation, where the barriers your psyche creates to function in life among humans fall for a moment, then your mind clears, your heart opens, and you perceive with clarity the full brilliance of reality, of the fact of being, and you realize that everything is in it.

If you can't experience any other experience that yours, that means that only your experience exist. Well....and if you wish hard enough, all your wishes will come true.

Then after that pov what? Another pov right? So reality is a time line, but then they say that time is an illusion. So where is the next pov? You have to awake to it, and you are not. Ahhh

It's very different, Osho talks about silent consciousness . God as is described here is an entity with desires who dreams your character to live an adventure and he's fooling you in order to make the adventure credible and real. He is creating exactly your field of consciousness because his only purpose is having this experience, then he's not creating anything else because it would be useless. In fact he's you, but he has the power to forget that he's god, because otherwise the experience would be not interesting at all, but there are clues everywhere that you could see and in some point you will realize that you created everything to deceive yourself. I don't think that Osho means that. Anyway, the talk of Osho is like poor. He says that if you look inwards you will see a pure silent consciousness. That's totally false, if you really look inwards you will find the creative power of the reality, the source, the ocean of being, and it's not silent or noisy, silence or noise are just possibilities, just opposites. Osho doesn't know what he's talking about imo

@VeganAwake Read again those ignorant people Al hallaj: I am the truth. Nisgardatta: I am that Ramana maharshi: the reality is the I Jesus: I'm the path , the truth and the life Before Abraham, I am Upanishads: Brahman is the self Shivaism: I am Shiva Meister Eckhart: the eye with god see me is the eye with I see god Look, that you feel that the self is not real doesn't mean that it isn't. Some people feel that they should be idols, other that are possessed by demons, there are many feelings, but the reality is more, let's say, logical

And earth is flat and there are aliens hidden by the CIA, and there is no self