Breakingthewall

@Someone here What you're talking about is a good level of meditation. What you're doing is real meditation, opening yourself to what is now. But let's see, when you say that there's emptiness inside you if thoughts stop, that can be nuanced. When the mind stops completely and you perceive yourself as a process unfolding now, at a certain point reality loses its dual dimension, "inside you," "your thoughts." There is no longer an inside or outside, no limits restricting anything. Then you are floating in the abyss that is this moment, and at a certain point, you are this moment, without any interpretation or barrier, completely clear, pure. When you can reach this point naturally, that's when it gets difficult, at least for me. In this absolute moment, there is one last barrier. Poetically speaking, your heart is closed, and it is because you are afraid, because you cling to the fact of being you, to the control of what is. The challenge is to open yourself, to let go of that last control, to break free from form and be pure substance without restrictions. This is enlightenment, nothing less. It is access to the Tao, to the source, and you cannot think or remember, you can only be now. It's not "nothing ", it's unlimited, it's everything. Then the door closes up, and you perceive the closure in you, in your body, in your heart, but anyway you can't open it. A lot of adjustments must be done to align yourself, at least it's what I feel, what I'm doing, the path that I choose

Look clown , seems that there are not moderators in this forum, just I'm asking you to go out of this thread. I think you are a disgusting clown and would be nice if you disappear from here with your annoying narcissism. Could you be so kind? Im asking you very politely, don't you think so? Then start another thread to show how smart you are.

The human nature makes those walls inevitable. Survival is a must, it's atavistic, not a silly mistake of the ego. Go through those walls requires facing your deepest fears and go through them. It's an interesting exercise, over all because the other option is madness. If we were in a society with a purpose, then we could make that purpose our guide and work hard for the group, but we are in the society of the no sense, no purpose, just hedonism, comparison, madness. Then there is no choice

Ok, you are very brilliant, so special. Everyone already know it. Then rest a bit and go to another thread

Anyone knows that metaphor, maybe you think it's very brilliant. Better explain the process

Because they perceive that life, reality, can't be this limited frame. Your intuition tells you that you are prisoner, but you don't know exactly how . Then you start reading spirituality, but it's contradictory, narcissistic and very bad explained. Most of authors are seducers, who's successful as a "guru" is who seduces the seekers. Then you think: if I stop my thoughts I will be free, and you start meditation as a violent effort to control your mind. A very stressful and annoying exercise. But if you are tenacious, little by little you start to perceive the processes that are happening in you, the process that you are, the depth of your movement, then it becomes a passion, you spend hours and hours in it, doing all the psychedelics that exist again and again, breaking your mind in all it's possible dimensions, until you start to know yourself Then you perceive that if you break the last frontier you will find the absolute

@oOo you are wasting a lot of energy for nothing. Don't you realize that James just want to appear enlightened to appear special or better? He's not going to read anything that you say, just answering to place himself above you. This forum is 90% this sterile exercise, but it's interesting because shows what spirituality use to be, what's the real motivation of the "gurús"

Start a new thread, this is to talk about meditation and spirituality.

I said something with value: that you are someone who talks with the sole purpose to appear smart.

You sound smart , impressive. Say more things to sound smart if it makes you happy. The person who thinks that his mental state is limited.

You could say that the reality is you, because it's obvious that you are the reality manifested in a local process. The point is not knowing that but being open to what you are, what is you nature. This is a subjective perception, like any other perception, but that's doesn't mean it's false. If you perceive yourself without any limit, you will say: yes! Alleluia! This is what I am, it's absolutely obvious, it's not something, it's unlimited and this implies everything , this is the end of the lack , the opening to the inexhaustible source, the bottomless abyss that is what you are. The biggest bullshit is that perception is an illusion. Perception is the reality perceiving itself. The perception can be closed or open. If it's totally open, the reality perceives itself in its nature. You are the reality now, not another, not any illusion When spira, Ralston , etc , talk about the realization of the nature of the reality, they are talking about a mental realization, like, you stop thinking that you are American, a human, etc, then THIS is what you are. No, they are just in a meditative state like mindfulness and as they have the psychological need of being enlightened, they are identifying with enlightenment. That's spirituality nowadays, total absence of depth. Enlightenment is absolute depth. When you are totally free of any identification, is when the real game starts. The game that @Grateful Dead have played that include go through the absolute nihilism. Most of people will grab any idea of god because they don't like that horror. You have to be absolutely naked of everything, absolutely humble, accepting the possibility that reality is dead emptiness and be one with this emptiness.

Perhaps consider that all these thoughts are an impulse to real meditation, and what is an obstacle is speaking from the need of appear special. Real humility is needed for this work.

I understand what you're saying. I was commenting on it mainly because modern spirituality, like Spira, Mooji, Ralston, and non-dualists in general, say: you are consciousness. You are the screen where forms appear, not the forms themselves (quite dualistic for a non-dualist). They say: enlightenment isn't something special, it's simply realizing the nature of reality, which is consciousness. This is completely and obviously, let's say impossible. If reality is consciousness, what are the forms that appear in consciousness? Dreams. And who dreams them? Consciousness. So, is consciousness not just consciousness, but an entity that produces dreams? They'll say: don't get confused, let it go, forget the mind, you are consciousness. Ah, so I forget the mind except to know that I am consciousness? Yes! You're enlightened now. Well, no. Enlightenment is being open to that which has no limits, to what is, which is what you are. Not knowing what reality is. That what has no limits, and having not limits is, is not a screen nor something trivial; it is the source, the Tao, the light, the life, and the total glory of being without limits. These are subjective statements, of course, but not therefore false.

Ok, but the ego is not only your human identity, thoughts, but the primal fear to dissolution that is programmed in the human psyche. The identity is it's manifestation Then we are speaking the same language (what is very rare). The dead void is the last door, there is a very subtle movement, a shift where the void opens and reveals itself as the unlimited that is. This is the movement that I'm talking about and that is so difficult to do for me. I think it's something that happens when your psychological structure is aligned in some way. If it happens now, and you are open to the unlimited for example during one week, but then in some moment it's closed again, very fast you will forget that reality and you will start to think that was a fantasy to scape of the obvious nihilist void that reality is. Exactly, nothing in life worths more that this. Without this openess anything is just suffering, at least for me. Every human has a closed structure in some degree, there is always a great work to do to align yourself enough to allow the openess.

Also a mind that doesn't deceive itself to feel better

You could say that awareness knowing is included in reality arising, but not the opposite, then if you say that reality is awareness you are making a closure. Just my opinion, because all the authors talk about consciousness and that. I see it as a very obvious mistake, but who knows If there is fear you could identifícate With it or not that there is still fear. If you are in silence, that of be what you are or not has no meaning. There is fear, period. If you think that this fear is not you, you are introducing an enormous structure of thoughts that implies that the fear could be you or not, then the notion of "you". If there is no mental activity, you or not you means nothing, but fear means everything. The idea that if the thoughts stops the mind is free is not real.

I'd say It's deeper than something that disappear if you relax. Maintaining control has many layers, the most obvious being comparative human identity, what is usually called the ego, manifested in thoughts. But once that means nothing to you, and you can be fully present in the moment in total silence, without questioning anything or defining yourself, you are still maintaining control, closing yourself off with the need to be you, not as an ego but as an individual. This is innate; you might say that if that's the case, let it be, but we are playing the game of total dissolution, and that door isn't going to open by itself. You have to open it, paradoxical as it may sound. The way to do it is by first seeing it. In total silence, perceive the contraction, the fear of dissolution. Then you have to do something. It's not enough to let things be as they are; you have to fully feel that fear and surrender, open yourself to dissolution, want to be absorbed by reality, stop being you, renounce the individual truly. That's not easy, you have to feel exactly the resistance, the fear, and let the control go. The control is the center, the self, that encloses you in a shell. Yes but for me the problem is that you can't surrender to fears and barriers that you don't perceive. The point of meditation is the real perception of your deep movement. Fear is powerful and always makes you move the attention to another plane, then you have to do the action of deciding stop avoidance, look directly. But what is God? How do you know that there is something instead a mechanic process that happens in the absolute emptiness because they are possible , without any God, absolute, divinity or anything? You have to surrender also to the absolute nihilism. That's not easy. You could had a lot of moments of openess when you was totally aware that you are one with the totality, blah blah, but if now, exactly now, you are not open to it, you would think that maybe all was just an illusion and the reality is dead emptiness without bottom. You have to surrender to that shit again and again The point is that when you are closed, you are closed. Our minds could elaborate a lot but the landscape is dry, in black and white, dead, closed. In that landscape openess seems a remember that maybe was just a naive illusion. You can't remember the openess because you are closed (I'm talking about me not about you, probably anyone have different experience), you have to open the door, release the barrier that's closing. It's not easy, in fact usually it's impossible, you have to do a long work of alignment

@Never_give_up I don't know if reincarnation is real or not, and I guess nobody knows. The point is, you have this one life, so you can try to live it as best you can. What's important isn't IQ, but authenticity, courage, and perseverance. These qualities can be acquired if you're truly committed to yourself. Just don't give up never. That's what life means

Experience is deceptive because it implies duality: the experiencer and the object of experience, what appears. The word "experience" refers to that, however you look at it. Therefore, if you say that experience is absolute, you are saying that something inherently relative is absolute. You should first say that experience is the fact of being appearing in an apparently dualistic way, and that if you collapse that apparent duality, what remains is the fact of being, which is absolute and doesn't necessarily have to appear as experience. This point is essential because if you don't understand it, you will believe that reality is consciousness and you will be trapped in a duality that you will call non-duality. Experience is the reality being conscious of itself, not the reality. The reality is absolute and it's beyond consciousness.

According to him, Claude is conscious because he writes coherent responses. This would imply that, according to him, a human who writes incoherent responses would not be conscious. He bases his claim that an AI is conscious because it performs refined processes. A car also performs refined processes, only it doesn't speak. Cats don't speak either, and they are self-aware. Cars aren't. Neither is Claude.

I don't think that they arises in awareness. Awareness is something that is happening, an structure that reality is taking now. Nothing defines what you are, only the fact that you are defines you as what is. What exactly is identification? You mean defining yourself as someone who can die for example? I think it's impossible to cease that identification by observing the thoughts, at least for me, and I have tried it thousand of hours, the only way is dissolving the barrier between you and the reality. For me the way to achieve this is first, recognizing that as a form im a process that is going to finish and disappear. Impermanence is total, everything that defines me now is going to disappear totally. Total death, accepting this in your heart is the key. It's a movement of humility. Then you open yourself to what is, you are what is. Death is perceived as the opening to the absolute unknown, you open your heart to the black hole of death and your mind loose it's limits, you are now in the mystery, death and life are not different, what you are is the unlimited happening, there is nothing to grab, nothing to know, all the barriers fall. But if you observe the thoughts and you let them pass without identification, you are keeping the separation between you and the thoughts, and that separation is a barrier. Maybe you don't identifícate yourself with the thoughts but you identificate yourself with the observer

It's a threat to the individual, your body can be harmed, etc. That's a reality, any living being is programmed to avoid suffering by evolution. Yes more or less. The point for me is to achieve the dissolution of the barrier that separates the individual. When this barrier is active, which is the default state of a human being, you perceive yourself as an entity that can die. You can use mental tricks like reincarnation or transcendence, but it's always transcendence as an individual. When the barrier falls, the individual reveals themselves as non-essential, as a facet of what is. Death is perceived as dissolution into what is, the dissolution of your form into your essence. The permanence of consciousness as "you" is irrelevant, even the permanece of consciousness. Unconsciousness is the same than consciousness in the sense that both are what is; there is nowhere to go. It is always this, what is. At a certain point, being in a closed state is perceived as suffering, and the only viable state is the state without barriers. It must be your natural state; anything else is suffering. When you say self maybe you mean the reality, without center, and really without self.

Yes, any conversation, like this one, is made by thoughts. Thoughts are the structured expression of what we are, then it's very important to be able to understand clear where our thoughts come from and how they are a tool of closure or openess. For example, it's important to see in oneself if the flow of thoughts is defensive, oriented to keep a self image and transmit it to others, or open, oriented to expression of the reality that you are without filter. Also, oriented to real understanding or to defend some structures that your psyche needs for it's stability.

Yes, that's what's usually said when talking about meditation, but I see a separation there between you and your thoughts that will always close you off, create a limit. There isn't a separate "you" that observes the thoughts and decides whether to take them seriously or not; rather, that "you" that seems to observe the thoughts is part of the mental process. The key is to dissolve the separation between you and your thoughts. If the thought "I am anxious" arises, as you said, it's because the emotional structure that you are right now is manifesting as that thought. The fact that you try to ignore it is also part of how that emotional structure manifests, and it won't take you out of the process. The key is to be fully aware of yourself as an emotional structure, to perceive how you are vibrating right now, your subconscious fears. To make the subconscious fully conscious. Thoughts are not the cause but the consequence. If I think, "Oh shit, I could get sick and die," trying to ignore that thought will only increase the gap between the apparent center that believes it's in control and your reality as a whole, which is expressed in that thought. The key is to enter the emotional current that causes that thought to arise, to look directly at the fear of death, rejection, and loneliness, without a filter. Then you see that mental activity is the expression of that emotional structure, which also includes creative desire, openness to life and others, and a desire for deep and real connection with others and life. If you don't look directly at the yin, the yang remains dormant, buried. If you look your fears without filter, eventually you will integrate them little by little, then in some moments your mental/emotional structure gets totally aligned and limits fall. It's useless to try to evoque being unlimited being limited because, precisely, you are limited. Then you would construct a limited version.

As I see it, having a completely silent mind doesn't necessarily mean the meditation is as deep as it could. The barriers the mind creates by default manifest not only in thoughts but also in contraction, closure, separation. This contraction is primarily fear, and this fear exists because reality is, in many ways, a real threat. For me, the difficult part is getting that barrier made of fear to dissolve. Being totally present is a point, really it's the state that should be by default, but the dissolution of the barrier is a challenge, not easy at all for me. Even if I'm totally aware of it, it persist