Breakingthewall

existence is desire. without desire there is nothing. reality is the infinite dancing with itself a dance of love in which it desire to love itself and deepen itself. Desire is positive when it is oriented towards love, and it is negative when it is oriented to avoid the lack of love.

@Moksha Ramana Maharshi also said things like a cow achieved enlightenment through her mother, who also came out of the wheel of reincarnations when she died.

it depends on the meaning you give it, for me knowing has a cumulative connotation and understanding qualitative, but maybe lao tse sees it the other way around Btw tao te King is a book where a person wrote his understandings about existence

understanding is, for example, realizing that there are no limits between you and others, and that what you do to others you do to yourself. you might understand this right? how do you understand it? because someone has told you, or because you have come to that conclusion thinking? no, it is a direct understanding. then the logical mind structure, formule with concepts, separates the others/your, act, consequence, and then it loose it's reality, you don't understand it anymore. The real understanding comes from beyond the logical mind the logical mind can understand how a foot fits in a shoe of its size but not in a smaller one, but it cannot understand infinity, since it is limited, finite. the mind that understands everything is infinite, and is reality itself the conceptual mind is the same infinite mind but limited, to be able to handle the limited. what is limited is appearance, and so is the conceptual mind. It's the source of confusion

The less than you know, the more that you understand. Until you don't know nothing, you couldn't understand everything.

Did you read what I said? Who talked about phenomena or imagination? Nothing of what is said penetrate in you mind, and your message is just: the absolute is the truth, the relative is false.i realized the absolute, and you don't. Do you think that it's possible to have a conversation in those terms? Frustrating, seems that you have the need of defending a position

Id say that logic happens after understanding. it is what gives structure to what has been understood

Imagination is limited, in fact, it's a limiter. infinity is like having a hole in your being where there is no limit, it is infinite. then you really realize that this hole is a source of unlimited love and that this experience that is happening right now is existence making love to itself, and it's perfection. This is not mental or conceptual, it is a real realization, of maximum beauty, which can be intuited sober but which is realized to the bottom with psychedelics. after this you realize that everything is that, silence and noise too, it is the understanding of what reality is, but it is difficult to maintain it

Exactly, and we are, only we are in the mire of confusion and separation, which veils omniscience and love. Spirituality is coming out of apparent confusion and separation and closer to the omniscience and love that are the truth.

total silence can be achieved with meditation and also with psychedelics. in both cases it is not only the absence of mental noise but the absence of limits. you as ego are a limiter, a wall. you create the appearance of finitude, when reality is limitless, infinite. if you have realized infinity many times, you realize that the walls are infinity too, everything is. This is for me the goal of meditation and psychedelic work, the dissolution of limits. once dissolved, and with the mind in silence, is when the understanding begins. understanding is not mental, learned or achieved by logical procedures, it is direct experience

That's very useful too. other people is reading here, not just me. Try be more constructive

Thats false. when you become completely detached from the content of the mind, you realize that mental noise is the same as silence. It's kind of maddening these conversations because you assume that I haven't gotten out of the ego talk and emotional history. I can do mushrooms and not have a thought, or have them but see them for what they are, the same in the sober experience. although sometimes I enter into mental suffering, I know what that is, the suffering can be conscious, it is one more experience that sometimes happens. silence is one experience, noise another. It's easy for me to quiet my mind and meditate, but what about that? It's just a technique to feel better and more centered, very useful, but silence is no more true than mental noise if you don't get attached to it.

Why do you assume that? How do you know how I'm experiencing my direct experience? From my perspective it seems that you project baseless ideas

Saying things like that in a forum doesn't make any sense. Expose what according to you is, do not say: you are wrong, and that's it. what is the purpose of that?

You don't understand what I'm saying. When you realize the absolute, is still your direct experience. only that exists. the only absolute there is is your direct experience, which now seems relative, now absolute. it is always absolute, because it is reality, only it takes the appearance of an experiencer and an experience. this is the illusion. there are not two, only the experience

I think you think you understand but you don't. You don't understand that the dream is the absolute. The ego is god, and the personal will is just the god will. But if you want to be in the delusion that there is something else you have to see, the sun outside the movie theater, as McKenna says, is your choice. but there is no sun outside, since outside does not exist.

@Squeekytoy Maybe because they are the ying and the yang. Squeekytoy is a scholar, has great knowledge, more than it seems.@Yimpa is the force that pushes. We will see if he has the courage to break all the barriers. Maybe yes.

@M A J I THanks for sharing, i suppose it is very possible that something like this could happen. My sister lives in a hippie town and a shaman came giving toad (€150 per session btw), many sessions, and there were similar cases, even a guy committed suicide. In that town everyone greets each other giving a hug of about 6 seconds, and everything is good vibes. everything is fake, obviously, these people think that if they look happy and full of love, they will be happy and full of love, and they repress themselves more than a nun from 100 years ago. If these people seriously go down the psychedelic path, they may end up in a mental institution. the connection to earth to be like iron, and the integrity with oneself even more solid.

The human mind is the absolute, in a, let's say, low form. What you are doing in your spiritual trip is evolution and understanding, even you don't want to call it like that. But we are starting the same discussion than always ?

Let's see, i think we agree if I say that you are existence. and also if I say that you will never be able to get out of your direct experience, in all eternity. from this follows the obvious conclusion that your direct experience is absolute. what is, is, and there is nothing else. and my experience? It is not real to you, it will be your experience, it was, whatever, but only your direct experience exists. then what you call the dream is the absolute reality. there is no relative /absolute duality, there is this, which can be experienced from different levels of consciousness. the entire cosmos and the entire absolute is this moment of your experience, and it will be for eternity. this is awakening and it can be quite lonely and horrible when the ego sees it. then, in this concrete experience we want to raise our consciousness to understand more deeply what we are, for beauty, simply.

Yes, but the thing is that there is something to achieve. It seems quite obvious that existence tends towards more intelligence, more consciousness, there is an evolution, and that is going towards something. It is not vanity, it is the movement of reality. It would be like saying that it is vanity for a worm to evolve into an elephant. is the absolute in action

Imo turquoise is where understanding begin, not when it ends. all of us are stuck on a yellow pointing to turquoise and many think that turquoise is, shall we say, the final destination. You have realized the absolute and that's it. but I think that it is not like that, it is one thing to realize that reality is absolute and another to penetrate into that reality, how to understand it in the same way that you can now understand that reality is infinite, to understand much more

So you have the desire of dissolve your desires, because you want to be more awake, closer than the absolute, or even merge with the absolute. Of course, without that desire of raise your conciousness, be one with god, it's impossible to advance in spirituality

So, a monkey would be enlightened, or a 3 year old child, since they have not erected mental barriers and they are pure, but this is not the case, their level of consciousness is not as high as possible

Understanding is sononym of raising your consciousness. the walls are not such, they are simply your reach with a certain level of consciousness. people tend to believe that there is an ego mode vs an enlightened mode, and it is not like that, there is a gradual rise in your level of consciousness or understanding of reality. it is normal to reach a level where you feel bliss and silence and think: well, this is it, I have arrived. this is narrow minded imo. understanding is pure beauty, when you realize it's possible, you want more. I don't know about alien that Leo talk about, but he is completely right when he puts understanding above all else.