DocWatts

America is also a very complex and nuanced society, if only for the immense amount of regional diversity spread out over an enormous geographic area. Yet that doesn't diminish the Harm that America has inflicted on other parts of the world, or make its clearly unethical foreign policy decisions any more ambiguous (even if there is a diffusion of responsibility among decision makers and US citizens). Likewise, any honest attempts to resolve the Israeli Palestinian conflict has to begin with the recognition that a clear injustice lies as the heart of the conflict, and continues to take place to this very day. That doesn't mean trying to turn back the clock or anything as simplistic as implying that Israeli doesn't have the right to exist, but it does mean treating the Palestinians as full partners in coming to an arrangement that both sides can live with, rather than as a hostages or subjects (which is closer to how the situation looks to the rest of the world).

Or the dozens of other requisite systems to help navigate and maintain the damn things, like air traffic control, GPS, or something as simple as a socket wrench to open up a panel. Seems almost universal that having access to something that's 50 years ahead of current technology is a million times more useful than something that's orders of magnitude more sophisticated than what a society has access to.

@Danioover9000 Or more likely any practical use for this technology would require energy sources and material science that's hundreds or thousands of years more advanced than anything we have. Going back to the fighter jet example, you could give an entire fleet of them to Roman Empire, but it wouldn't be of any use if the only energy sources available at the time are muscle power and burning wood.

That $30 billion United Nations estimate I mentioned was specifically for Sustainable Development programs to help areas lacking in food security become self sufficient. If you're thinking that it would just be a no strings attached cash handout to political leaders in unstable areas (or UN peacekeepers handing out sacks of food to poor farmers), you've got the wrong idea.

Seems a bit like assuming that the Roman Empire could have reverse engineered a fighter jet that was sent back in time. Inadequate material science and a lack of foundational theoretical understanding would have prevented them from being able to grasp what it was they were even looking at, let alone reverse engineer such a complicated machine. There's no reason to assume that our current efforts would be any more successful.

Totally agree. Less than one percent of the US Budget goes towards Foreign Aid to other countries, though many Americans somehow believe it's much higher (polls indicate that an average American mistakenly thinks that it's closer to %10 ). When just %10 of the US Military budget would be enough to vastly reduce (or even eliminate) world hunger were it redirected towards the helping the poorest areas of the world, hard to see the current allocation of resources as nothing short of a tragedy. Source: Estimates for the yearly cost to end world hunger range from $7 billion to $265 billion a year, with $30 billion being the UN's figure. https://www.globalgiving.org/learn/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-world-hunger/ https://borgenproject.org/cost-to-end-world-hunger/

Or another possiblity is that aliens are here observing us, yet the vast majority of sightings are false positives. Both things can be true at the same time. Hell even if the alien hypothesis is eventually validated in some substantial way, that doesn't mean that every ambiguous sighting is credible, or that those weird lights in the sky that you saw in the sky weren't an optical illusion with a terrestrial explanation.

I don't disagree with this. I may be more skeptical about the efficacy of eyewitness accounts, but aliens as a provisional Theory to be tested seems reasonable. My disagreement stems less with the theory itself, and more with jumping to premature conclusions from data which is at this point highly ambiguous and interpretable. I guess I would liken it somewhat to someone declaring that String Theory is "correct", rather than a highly provisional framework that's yet to be verified in a substantial way (and just be incorrect and the wrong way of looking st the problem).

Yeah but i've also been on jets, and are familiar enough with them to place that object moving in a strait line at 30,000 feet in to a context that I can make sense of. Now who can say that they have anything approaching a comparable level of familiarity about something from another world made with alien tech?

I'd counter that the situation being analogous to the vast majority of people in the area where I live having zero experience with snakes, and being unable to differentiate a Black Mamba from a dozen other species of similar looking North American Snakes at a glance. Could a Black Mamba have somehow made its way from another continent to North America, or have escaped captivity? It's certainly possible. If a rumor of such was spreading about, I would expect quite a few false positives from people who have no particular expertise in the type of phenomena they're trying to identify. Likewise, do I trust that most ordinary people to correctly identify that the small blob in the sky is actually a UFO and not an optical illusion caused by something more conventional? Not so much. Just because I'm willing to give the guy who has flown jets for 18 years a lot more credibility when he speaks about a strange encounter he had, doesn't automatically extend credibility to every person who interprets a blob they saw in the sky as an alien. Or to put it another way: aliens might exist, but that doesn't mean that the vast majority of sightings aren't false positives.

I know this was written to demonstrate a point, but Nazi Germany's actual war aims were never 'taking over the world'. Thier actual aims were to become the dominant power in Europe, and then expand in to Western Russia in an ideologically motivated war of annihilation with the practical aim of seizing resources and living space. Had they been successful the death toll would have been orders magnitude worse than the Holocaust. But an actual German victory would probably look more like the Cold War (with Germany occupying the place of the USSR) rather than Man in the High Castle. Nor they were never anywhere close to being able to develop a nuclear weapon (turns out that declaring the most brilliant scientists of the age enemies of the state has a way of arresting progress towards nuclear weapons). The only reason the United States was able to successfully develop Nuclear weapons during World War 2 is because they had the Industrial Capacity to turn the entire country in to a factory for developing fissile materials.

That's a bad analogy; under most circumstances (other than something incredibly contrived) the moon is a fairly unambiguous object. No one is going to mistake it for a bird or an airplane. UFO sightings occur under what I'll charitably call suboptimal viewing conditions; at the very least there's a lot of room for ambiguity (leaving aside the cases that have been debunked). My neighbor who works in a factory might mention that he thought he saw a deadly Black Mamba snake slither across his garden (a species that's native to Africa rather than North America), but I'd take the claim a lot more seriously if it were coming from my Zoologist friend who's an expect on Snakes (and actually knows what the hell they're talking about). Not sure why we should trust randos who have no special expertise or qualifications on identifying ariel phenomena any more than we'd trust randos to come to thier own conclusions on how Covid spreads.

That's a fair point, but the best that eyewitness testimony can do at this point (even when that comes from someone more qualified than most to speak about ariel phenomena) is demonstrate that there's something worth looking in to further using other empirical methods. Just saying that something is Alien in origin by a process of deduction still doesn't tell us what these things actually are, what they're doing here, if these are vehicles whether they're manned spacecraft or automated drones, etc. Also where they're coming from, what sort of technology these things possess, or whether or not whoever's controlling these things is actually interested in observing humans specifically. Are these craft intentionally trying to avoid detection? Or are legit sightings so incredibly rare that it just seems that way to us? Eyewitness testimony alone, even from the most credible source in the world, will never be able to tell us most of what we would want to know about these things (beyond thier mere existence). So yeah, saying that these objects warrant further study is Valid, even if their existence is already settled in your mind.

Sure, it's of course a possiblity that some of the people who come forward about this stuff are fabricating stories. But the idea that the a majority of the Air Force pilots who came forward are just Inventing stories for attention (rather than mistaking conventional things as extraterrestrials) seems even more unlikely than Aliens. The problem isn't that people who make these claims are all lying, it's that eyewitness testimony without other types of 'hard' evidence can only go so far as an explanatory mechanism.

Really? All of them are lying? What would the motivation for that be? Seems far more plausible to posit that they're being Honest about whatever it is they've seen and experienced, and go from there. It doesn't mean that their Interpretations for the cause of the phenomena are necessarily correct, but just positing that people that come who forward are being dishonest seems like a way of avoiding challenges to your skepticism on this issue.

As someone who's been on both sides of the class divide, the difference between being rich and poor when trying to access Health Care is the difference between a $15 copay when picking up a Prescription, and paying a third your monthly income for Insulin. The US Government does very little to set price limits on what perspective drug companies are allowed to charge for medication, and it's not uncommon at all for medications to cost hundreds of dollars. Predatory Capitalism at it's finest. It's extremely expensive to be a poor or a working class person in America, and health care is no different.

What's that Chinese proverb about cursing someone to live in 'Interesting Times'? I'd expect that the last gasps of breath for any ideology that's on its way out after holding on to power for a long time is almost bound to be ugly. Let's hope that that when Green climbs from the ashes it's not a pyrrhic Victory on a ruined and devastated planet.

Some takeaways from the book; Policing is a seemingly impossible job, where men and women are tasked with a long list of difficult and often contradictory tasks; they're simultaneously expected to be warriors, disciplinarians, social workers, mentors, and medics. Police training heavily over-emphasizes how dangerous the profession is, and how likely any scenario is to turn deadly in an instant. While Policing is a dangerous profession, statistically a Police Officer is about as likely to be killed or injured on the job as a Utility Maintenance Technicians or Constriction Workers. Pizza delivery drivers are statistically more likely be inured or killed by another person while on the job than Police Officers. The primary danger for Police Officers in the authors experience are Mental Health problems such as PTSD and Depression from seeing terrible things and repeated stressful interactions with people in bad circumstances Police Training emphasizes that Officers have a right to go home safe at the end of the day, but does not emphasize that members of the Public should expect the same. The vast majority of a Police Officer's time is spent handling minor infractions or misdemeanors, rather than responding to violent crime In the vast majority of cases arresting someone does nothing at all to help anyone, generally only making things more difficult for desperate people with already difficult lives Some of the poorest cities in the country spend up to %40 of thier budget on thier Police Departments; often exceeding the amount that is spent on schools. Most of the men and women that the author served with took thier role as public servants seriously, but were indignant at considering how thier profession contributes to problems of systemic racism (ie it's not my fault that the people commiting crimes around here happen be black) A visible Police presence is something that is actively wanted and approved of by many Residents living in rough areas, who are more frightened of gangs than they are of the police Systemic Racism has become so baked in to the assumptions and biases behind Policing that it's often Invisible, and due to sociological factors outside of the Justice System. And not something that will be solved by just diversifying Police Departments. For many of the black officers that the author worked with, a rational she came across was that 'the safest place for a young black man to be in America is behind a badge'

Thought I might recommend a book I read recently about policing in America, from a Law Professor and Journalist, Rosa Brooks, who became a Reserve Police Officer in one of the poorest districts of Washington DC, and later wrote about her experience. The book makes an excellent complimentary read to books like The New Jim Crow, as it does an excellent job of reconciling the systemic problems of the US Justice System with a Humanized look at the stressful and difficult job of Policing. Haven't seen Rosa Brooks or her work brought up much in discussions around the topic, which is unfortunate because she offers a very balanced and fair look at the issue that's backed up by direct, real world experience of the realities of the job.

%15 - 20 percent (or nearly 1 in 5) of the American adult population have come to believe in QAnon Conspiracy Theories. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/study-finds-nearly-one-five-americans-believe-qanon-conspiracy-theories-n1268722 We're going to be in for a rough few decades before Demographic shifts make the Republican Party non-viable at the national level.

America is almost two different countries depending on where you end up on the socio-economic ladder. People who've been insulated from the problems of the current system would change thier tune real quickly if they exchanged places with someone who was forced to declare bankruptcy because of medical expenses, or with a working class person with a chronic illness who was forced to choose between paying hundreds of dollars for medication they need or paying rent that month. The entire purpose of the Privatized Health Care industry in America is to extort as much money as possible from its customers, rather than to provide for people's Health and Well Being. It's an inhumane and needlessly cruel system.

And here I was thinking that someone like Mick West taking the time and effort to identify false positives would be a good thing.

Or develop any sort of mental illness that needs treatment. Much easier to have that person become homeless, wind up in the prison system, or go on a mass shooting than to provide funding for mental health care services and social work. I had a next door neighbor when I was living in a low income area who was living with severe schizophrenia without access to treatment, who ended up being shot and killed by the police after having a psychotic break and waving a pistol at Police Officers who arrived at the scene. Could this incident had been avoided if this poor guy had access to the same sort of Mental Health services that wealthy individuals take for granted? I'll never know for sure, but it's a sad state of affairs when Society neither values or cares about people without access to financial resources and social capital.

I'd argue that a minority of obstructionist Legislators (representing perhaps a quarter or a third of the country) being able to obstruct the will of the entire Country is actually far worse than a majority of Senators being able to pass whatever they want with a simple 51 to 49 vote. The filibuster is flagrantly anti-democratic. It's simply a Senatorial rule, not something to be found in the Constitution. In theory our system is supposed function so that the other two branches of Government serve as a check on Legislative power and Senatorial overreach. The President could Veto said Bill, or one of the Courts could strike it down as Unconstitutional. Obviously the System is not working as intended, but the Irony is that removal or modification of the Filibuster is completely necessary to address the numerous ways in which our system is undemocratic and dysfunctional. That will never happen if 40 Senators representing far less than %40 of the population (due to Senate seats not being proportional to population like in the House) can obstruct democratic reforms.

What's hilarious is that many of the most Vocal of the sOciaLiSm bAd! crowd tend to be Boomers who are directly benefiting from government programs like Social Security and Medicare, yet somehow manage to equate Single Payer Healthcare with Communism. Propagandized Americans just might be the most ignorant people on the entire planet.