The0Self

I've experienced similar to what you describe. Usually with psychedelics. More than that too; time completely vanishing; infinity; etc. As far as how intense the pleasure was though, yes, jhana can surpass it because jhana can have literally several times more pleasure intensity than you can stand without it starting to feel like it's too much.

I was talking in terms of pure physical pleasure and bliss. It beats heroin and cocaine, but generally 5-MeO-DMT; mushrooms; etc can have the potential to be a bit stronger. But yeah TMI by Culadasa is good for building the foundation. Once you have mind control you can essentially produce as much bliss as you want, any time you want it -- like more pleasure than you can stand. A really solid 2nd jhana (nowhere near as amazing as it can get) can have so much pleasure it's actually agonizing. I'd say it takes maybe 2 years to get there if you're serious, but even in the first month of actually getting the hang of it, a meditator will be quite happy.

Jesus Christ dude lol Not judging or anything, I'm just wondering how you've been on this forum all this time and did not discover the fact that meditation gets you higher than anything.

A tiny fraction of cigarette addiction is the nicotine. The rest is the harmaline alkaloids / MAOI released upon burning, which cause dopamine buildup in the brain and a dopamine recession upon cessation.

I used to be addicted to heroin and cocaine. Jhana is at least 10 times more powerful -- If you weren't already aware of that... damn dude. For me not to very strongly indicate this would be negligence on my part. I assumed you were already aware and had maybe even experienced it yourself. It's available to you... How long have you been meditating? Or do you do it at all? I don't attach any particular importance to it but it should definitely be pointed out that this is available to you, if you're talking about getting high on a forum that also has plenty of meditation info lol. Meditation is the mother-lode of recreational pleasure, it just takes practice... Not trying to convince you, just indicating for others who might be swayed into thinking meditation and self-realization aren't as powerful as they are -- thinking it's just some activity that's fun but "surely recreational drugs are stronger, right?" Nope, utterly and epically flat false.

Not applicable. Both 0% and 100%. There is no separate free will. Yet, there is only Freedom / Free "will."

Wow

So, so you think you can tell Heaven from hell? Blue skies from pain? Can you tell a green field From a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell? Did they get you to trade Your heroes for ghosts? Hot ashes for trees? Hot air for a cool breeze? Cold comfort for change? Did you exchange A walk-on part in the war For a leading role in a cage? How I wish, how I wish you were here We're just two lost souls Swimming in a fish bowl Year after year Running over the same old ground What have we found? The same old fears Wish you were here

In my experience it was a bit more like the realization itself created the apparent story of everything that ever happened that led up to it, by transcending time.

There aren't levels of awakening in the end bro. Only levels of ego development.

Congrats! Some call this Witnessing or the figure ground reversal. Almost like looking in at the world instead of out at it? Very, very transcendent? State of pure subjectivity. It's an auspicious sign. It's often brought about by turning attention away from all objects no matter how subtle, but it can arise for many reasons. Don't reflect on it too much though as that creates a divide -- just inquire as normal and treat the memory of the state like any other object -- ignore/relax/turn-away-from it / attempt to find its assumed knower. You can continue to do self inquiry on Witnessing itself, or perhaps just abide as Witnessing and solidly enjoy it... until it gets old and you move on to whatever the next step is.

Do you think a rock would see a difference in goodness between nazis and those killed by nazis? Course not, they aren’t selfish. Good/better only means good for me and what I identify with. If I’m a terrorist, “good for me” might be beheading someone — otherwise why would they do it... the infidel is considered a threat to the goodness of reality in their minds, so they obviously have good intentions. Pretty straightforward. Of course for us that would be very bad. Same deal. Everything is ultimately perfection (that’s all there is), and equal, but of course NOT relatively equal — we’re more developed and clearly display more apparent goodness (depending on who you ask) than terrorists... No one is arguing against that.

Arising and passing of meaningless chaos, glommed together by imagination, appearing as gratitude; joy; etc.

The 2 most powerful simple Self-Love exercises, in my experience: Metta, after getting pretty good and steady with it — though it may start out slow, it builds tremendously. Staring at reflection in the mirror and telling yourself “I love you,” repeatedly, with ease and mindfulness.

In one manner of speaking, they’re at a lower stage of ego development. They identify with, and have compassion for, men who they perceive as having been wronged; heartbroken; seduced; affected; emasculated by women. They identify less with the women, creating a differential in perceived goodness — women painted as the evil ones. Pretty simple.

It makes sense only if you have unfalsifiable beliefs — namely that there exists something outside of consciousness. If you’re self honest and uproot self deception, materialism is utterly and literally insane — much like believing that if you believe that someone named Jesus 2000 years ago arose from the dead (how random...), you’ll go to Heaven... so basically just believing as you’re told.

Many would say to advise on this is to miss the point, but if you’re seeking you’re gonna seek, so TMI by Culadasa is as good a place as any to start. It’s just that enlightenment is not an achievement or prize that you get.

Liberation/enlightenment. A cessation is a sort of glimpse. I'm talking about the end of cessations.

Yes but many think that liberation is just being convinced that there is no liberation to achieve -- but in that case there's still someone there merely thinking they're done. Many other ideas for what it is, but what it is can't be imagined. Liberation/enlightenment actually happens a bit more completely than that, liberation is transcended like everything else (everything is empty of existing in reality), but there's absolutely no separation left to experience exactly what that's like (which is why what enlightenment is like cannot be imagined). It really is different from God-realization and more complete -- there are no mystical experiences after liberation.

What Frank talks about is not what Leo talks about. Frank is beyond enlightenment -- the only enlightenment -- the end of mystical experiences.

What? Meditation of course... It takes a lot of practice, but even in terms of pure intensity of pleasure it beats cocaine and heroin if you take it far enough.

You’re still coming back to the same fundamental misunderstanding — I’m not talking about metabolic rate. As you said, that does not vary much. It’s the increased total caloric expenditure via movement throughout the day using more muscle mass which is very wasteful — NOT because of its weight, but because of the mass of energetic fibers constantly using energy as they move, even while moving leisurely. Get your deadlift up to 500 and you will find you have to eat so much, OR stay very still throughout the day, just to maintain that. Of course after a lot of even pure fat-weight loss, there will be less force acting on those muscles as well, causing total caloric expenditure to plummet — a phenomenon that is much more prominent the more muscle you have, and much less prominent the less you have. And as far as the 60 calories per 10lb — that’s fine; the entire point of mentioning it was to say muscle isn’t energetically costly while at rest, and that’s why people overlook just how energetically costly they are while in movement. I was mentioning the 600 entirely for the purpose of saying that 600 is negligible — 60 makes the point even more strongly. And now that I remember I think you’re right about the 60, my bad, but again that makes the point — as to why it’s overlooked just how costly muscles are in the real world, rather than on paper in reference to the resting/RMR/BMR cost... people look at a small number like 6cals per day and then it very much hides the reality of the situation.

Sure, except you have no idea how right you are. There’s a reason for why I actually know that other account is not the real Justin Bieber ?

Understandable, but that's essentially God pretending to be a 5 year old in Syria. Yeah it's not "good" as in "good for me," it's just boundless love. Love isn't always physically pleasant.

^^ This. Nice. Even with Buddhas who teach, it's still hard to tell. When they give pointers and teachings, it will almost necessarily seem as though they're "beating around the bush" -- that's because that bush is a massive black hole that can't be talked about. Lol I just saw that! Imagine if it turned out to actually be him that'd be hilarious.