The0Self

@Someone here lol I don’t believe in God either. True prayer imo has nothing to do with belief in God. What we’re referring to as God is not the same — it can’t be believed in. It’s all there is. Call that whatever you want.

@m0hsen And progressing in jhana is about releasing attachment to the current level — the later Jhanas basically have no room for physical pleasure because it’s old news — it’s recognized that the ultimate reason you like the pleasure is the peace it provides, and then you essentially absorb into pure peace, which interestingly is immeasurably more sublime than pure pleasure. Though you can always revisit earlier Jhanas. You generally pass through each one distinctly on the way up and down — known as the jhanic arc. Letting that arc flow naturally is the best way to practice them. With great skill you can enter into specific jhanas without having to follow the arc, but again the best way to practice is to let them progress naturally: i.e. the mind naturally begins to sense that the overwhelming exhilarating body buzz of 1st jhana is less sublime than the bliss itself produced by that exhilaration and so it absorbs into the blissful happiness of 2nd jhana like a warm bath (ecstasy/exhilaration now in the background); then mind begins to tire still of the overwhelming orgasmic exhilaration and so turns away from it entirely, giving way to pure happiness completely divested of bodily-exhilaration (3rd jhana), which is almost certainly not something humans are capable of outside of jhana. Abandon pleasure for peace itself (4th), abandon materiality; space; consciousness; nothingness; perception-landing (8th)... Even 1st jhana will knock your socks off though, so don’t worry about the later ones. The best word for 1st jhana is probably YEE HAW!! ? ?

I’ve practiced all sorts of techniques. Devised my own. Too many to even remember. One I liked was listening to God. Just listen to the silence. If you hear anything, listen for the silence behind it. Or another powerful one: sit with a question, very still and patiently, let its feeling (not merely words) pervade awareness, and do your absolute best to NOT answer it. Or self inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi / Rupert Spira. Takes a lot of patience but it can be rather incredible, and it’s sort of like prayer. I think a prayer Rupert Spira has offered is “God, replace me with you.”

Reading and learning about concepts — not only can it “only take you so far,” but it’s really more that it doesn’t take you anywhere. For the transformation into understanding, peace, and beauty it seems to me that one really ought to consider hours of meditation, prayer, contemplation, and/or inquiry. The understanding, peace, and beauty that comes with systematically or even just diligently training the mind to be relaxed and still is beyond anything that could have possibly been imagined prior. Psychedelics can be a sort of cheat (very worthwhile) in this regard, but the insights aren’t nearly as sturdy as those provided by a diligently trained mind. If meditation is still even slightly boring even after months of daily sits, there’s a subtle flaw in your technique. Sort it out. As for finding answers in prayer, it may be more fruitful to sit with an inquiry/question, very still and quiet, patiently for quite some time, and do your best to NOT answer it — this can do something interesting... the answer can come out of the depths, and it’s often not at all what you expected. Your finite mind is so much less powerful than the infinite intelligence that is all that is; that you are.

If interested in an actual meditation practice (a way to really transform your lived reality rather than just concepts), then Culadasa’s The Mind Illuminated is great and it’s for both rank beginner and advanced practitioners alike. Rupert Spira stuff is probably good for a lighter introduction. Maybe Peter Ralston’s The Book of Not Knowing — though I haven’t read that one, I just have it and have glanced through it— looks like tons of valuable info — maybe others who have read it can chime in. Most technical book for the hands-on techniques is probably Rob Burbea’s Seeing That Frees.

In that case yeah you’re using a different definition of consciousness which is not absolute. Closer to the materialist paradigm. Not saying you’re a materialistic. It’s just semantics.

Pretty much exactly! For enlightenment, one can either: 1. recognize their true nature and then allow that to dissolve their egoic habits over a course of (usually) several years, or 2. dissolve their egoic habits over a course of (also usually) several years until their true nature is unavoidably recognized. Often a sort of combination or cycling of #1 and #2, in a sense. They’re the same in the end, but accessing and progressing in jhana is sort of in line with #2 — massive quieting of much of the normal egoic habits of seeking happiness from the world. It’s not required for enlightenment but it’s not unlikely that the state you’ll be in with that power will feel like “how much more could I want?” Which really cuts the fuel source off from a large portion of the egoic mental habits.

Is a rock consciousness? Yes. Does a rock have subjectivity? No.

Well, if you have shame or guilt, you’re judging what you identify as your own being, which is not separate from all being, so you’re liable to judge others as well. It’s not wrong though.

They most certainly are not. Unless you mean something other than the absolute when referring to consciousness, but even then they aren’t the same. Consciousness is apparent transfer of information, even an atom reacting with another atom — there ain’t any subjectivity there.

I doubt anyone here really thinks that. But consciousness is just an appearance, really “artificial consciousness” has nothing to do with consciousness — the question is only about whether computer hardware can be associated with subjectivity. It can with brains, apparently, so why not silicon? (is the question people here might have, I’d guess) There’s nothing apart from infinite consciousness, so the question of whether or not AI; trees; rocks have it is moot (infinite consciousness has them). But subjectivity is another beast altogether.

Yes, certainly.

Yeah it’s quite intuitive and can’t always be taught. Not sure how to raise awareness about this stuff without being a party pooper. I’ve never had an issue with it; just always intuitively read into the woman’s intuition. Can’t imagine teaching that to someone. Sometimes I begin having sex with my girlfriend out of nowhere without even asking and in fact basically by surprise — obviously does not work in all or even an appreciable amount of situations.

This very much is a decent representation of the witnessing state except it would be more spherical if that makes sense (looking in rather than out). And somewhat points to the rather more ineffable recognition that there’s no separation of any kind at all — except that (latter) seems to be accompanied more by a direct access to the reality that nothing is moving or happening in time-space at all. And while the witnessing state does actually kind of feel like you’re looking in at experience from an infinite black nothing, the recognition of no-separation does not have a spacious nothing that’s looking in at experience — rather, there is ONLY nothing... the big black void is not reified as transcendent... there’s just no one separate from everything to observe it from a separate standpoint. Also it’s an even better representation of how everyday-walking-around-consciousness is for those who still haven’t reached enlightenment but are quite spiritually (ego) advanced. ^^ Total masturbatory effing of the ineffable ? but for what it’s worth, I do try, and it is coming from the direct recognition.

Maybe try inputting these questions from the very last lines of NM’s I Am That. And see if you get similar responses. It’d just be an interesting experiment. Maybe if you copied the questions exactly it would give an exact answer by literally copying NM. Q: I am in a world which I do not understand and therefore, I am afraid of it. This is everybody’s experience. M: You have separated yourself from the world, therefore it pains and frightens you. Discover your mistake and be free of fear. Q: You are asking me to give up the world, while I want to be happy in the world. M: If you ask for the impossible, who can help you? The limited is bound to be painful and pleasant in turns. If you seek real happiness, unassailable and unchangeable, you must leave the world with its pains and pleasures behind you. Q: How is it done? M: Mere physical renunciation is only a token of earnestness, but earnestness alone does not liberate. There must be understanding which comes with alert perceptivity, eager enquiry and deep investigation. You must work relentlessly for your salvation from sin and sorrow. Q: What is sin? M: All that binds you.

If you’re apparently coming from separation, when the body interacts with others, all you can see is other beings. If you’re coming from enlightenment / no perspective, there are no other beings (of a nature different from “yours”) — there’s only the true nature, which is beauty; love; understanding, yet ordinary. Lack of judgement will likely be prominent. What else? Absolutely anything it seems.

^^ In exactly this way, the question of whether or not there is free will is utterly masturbatory.

It means only what I said: that upon experiencing it, you know the search for happiness outside yourself is futile, because the pleasure of jhana or the well-being inside you that you can uncover is of a different order that eclipses anything you could obtain from the world. That's all that is meant by securing a good rebirth. And I'm pretty sure jnana (insight) refers to something different from jhana (absorption).

Yeah I honestly until this thread thought it was a bit more well-known that meditation was so powerful, but I guess it makes sense: until I experienced first jhana, while I did have faith, I was essentially in the dark. I guess that's why the Buddhists say even experiencing first jhana one time for 1 second is enough to secure a good rebirth -- I happen to think that's allegorical, not literal, but it absolutely makes sense! -- (It really is an otherworldly level of intense exhilarating pleasure -- I'm not exaggerating the least bit when I say it's many times more powerful than cocaine and heroin combined.) -- Because ever since that experience, I've known for a fact that all the bliss anyone could ever want is within and not to be found outside themselves -- not known as a mere belief, but as an absolutely clear and obvious lived reality... Just from that one time! And it only got better. I would revise it and say it not only applies to experiencing 1 second of jhana, but to having the ability to induce some level of bliss, no matter how modest, at will -- which you seem to be able to do now. Disclaimer: Jhana seems to require a level of either diligence and/or talent that some people never reach, but as long as one has the ability to produce some level of bliss on demand in meditation, the whole field is open to them, whether or not it progresses into jhana... but if their desire is strong enough, it certainly will progress into jhana.

He's legit. That's just his personality. He used to be known in the bodybuilding community as the crazy guy.

^^ Btw, that is huge. View that modest joy/bliss as the heat from a small kindling fire that you've started, view subtlety/stillness as the bellows, and view relaxed diligence as the wood you add, until you've got yourself an inner blazing bonfire of powerful serene well-being. "My cup runneth over." The hardest part is actually starting the fire -- which you've done already! Good luck friend. @m0hsen

@Consilience I've listened to hundreds of hours from her! I slightly preferred this one though, for basically the same stuff, as he often speaks a bit quicker and doesn't have background music: Medicine of One https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxdOC7z42O2fxeBje5QXpQQ

No problem friend!

Certainly at first. Eventually literally several times more pleasure intensity than you can stand without it starting to feel like it's too much. Just so you know.

The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa Seeing That Frees by Rob Burbea Right Concentration by Leigh Brasington The 2019 Practicing the Jhanas retreat on dharmaseed by Rob Burbea Yeah it certainly is life-changing. Makes sensation-seeking utterly laughable. Even pleasure itself is unsatisfactory relative to the otherworldly bliss of the later jhanas.