Vrubel

I criticized their culture, their atrocities, cheering and total disregard for any honorable principle let alone moral principles. I mean how bankrupt is your culture if you celebrate people who consciously kill innocent civilians as heroes? I am not being racist ...and sure it's important not to dehumanize and to still see nuance but what I said is undeniably true. You can also criticize Israeli/Jewish culture without being anti-Semitic. However in my eyes, Israeli culture is way more respectable as they put value on cutting-edge science, technology, democracy, liberalism and genuine patriotism where people look out for each other and their country. Why don't the Uighurs or Rohingya behave like the Palestinians? Simple, because if they did they would get genocided and the world wouldn't bat an eye. If there was a real threat of genocide for Palestinians, they would never have attacked and started this war. Well, strictly speaking, it's not about land for me. When Russia took over Crimea without spilling blood, I wasn't really that passionate about it. And it kinda kept my innocence intact that bloody wars in Europe is a thing of the past. I just HATE that Russia started this war and brings so much suffering to both Ukrainians (first and foremost) but also Russians. Both peoples I respect but It's not to be underestimated how extremely vicious and ugly Putin's system of governance is. Just look at how Russian propaganda is built on such blatant and unashamed lies. They are not fighting for a legitimate "understandable" cause, if they did they wouldn't depend on blatant lies so much. What will they achieve? A strip of Ukrainian land and an otherwise chill and friendly brotherly nation that now despises them. I know Israel also does propaganda but at least they do it with facts and reasonable points. Also, much of Israeli propaganda is dispelling all kinds of demonizing myths about them. A hallmark of Russian propaganda is demonizing Ukrainians as Neo-Nazis. I actually used to think that Ukraine was to some degree a kind of extreme nazi sympathizing country. Though when I went there I discovered I was being lied to. I felt ashamed. Ukrainians were some of the most chill, fairly liberal, Europe-oriented and least anti-Semitic people on the planet. In many ways Israelis are being demonized in the same way as Ukrainians are by the Russians. But Ironicly I sympathize with both Ukrainians and Russians for different reasons. Well.. with Ukrainians for obvious reasons because they now must heroically defend their land and civilization against a regressive invader. But I also sympathize with Russians because they also get now a lot of hate and are being forced to be more closed off. And there really is something genuinely pure and soulful about Russian culture that Westerners will never understand.

What a silly and gaslighty perspective. I bet America is created by the French as a huge trap to have the Civil War and 9/11. Israel was created by no one apart from Jews. It got legitimacy from a United Nations vote and yeah the territory was controlled by the British which was open to Jewish immigration (until it wasn't and Jews and Brits fought each other for a short while). After the British left, Israel declared independence. On the same day, surrounding Arab countries attacked and Israel fought a year-long war of independence. Noteworthy with smuggled WW2 weapons from Czechoslovakia because of a global embargo. In that same war, many Palestinians fled and were not allowed to return, so for them it's the Nakba. Only somewhere around the 70's America developed a special relationship with Israel after it became clear that the country would survive and even thrive. I know real history, kid. If you want to do revisionism you better use your brain and real history.

I am a probe from cosmic consciousness that temporarily experiences life like a weird ape-like creature that worries about all kinds of monkey business. But there is also beauty and passion, so that's nice.

Mushminds take glee in “keyboard attacking” Israel or whatever tragic misfortune befalls her. Though the simple truth is that if Israelis can’t live in security neither can’t the Palestinians. This is also true the other way around. Though the dynamic is such that Palestinians pay way more for the insecurity of Jews. So if you hate suffering so much or love Palestinians why not be constructive in your approach to peace. Or just admit you don’t want peace and care more for “keyboard fighting” or literal fighting Israel, acting ugly and deceitful contributing to hate, war and suffering.

@Leo Gura She got banned when standing up against 7/10 denial. Before that she even asked for objective principles. So get her back.

The most vile thing is that @Lila9 got banned while in a discussion with a deeply biased mushmind who denied/heavily downplayed 7/10 atrocities. But thats okey I guess!? But if you’re an Israeli expressing your very reasonable points you get banned. What a load of bullshit.

“Mushy-mindedness” is an interesting concept where you have a certain narrative and every new raw information piece that goes trough your mind is automatically and lazily filtered and manipulated in such a way that it fits your narrative. I am pleasantly surprised at how level headed the court order is.

Owen Jones is king of the mushy-minds.

@zazen I understand your points. I won’t argue every point with you but just be careful of the viciousness of the hive mind you take part in. At some point they will make you betray your principles. Maybe they already did.

@Leo Gura Ban me too! I demand it respectfully, otherwise my next post will force you too. You are clearly fine with one propaganda but not the intellectual insights from an other. My authentic style is very romanticizing. That’s just my personality and the lens I view the world trough. Sorry for not being a cynical soul dead analyst, thats not my style. Yes, there is a reason Israelis have hard time being compassionate to Palestinians but instead of picking our minds, you ‘consciousness shame’ and shut us down. (I tripped a lot, I also had trips with immense compassion but also other themes). guess what, we are no less conscious than vast majority of the people here. And if you even for a second think these hive mind people have some kind of moral high ground or are more compassionate, that’s a dangerous delusion of the highest order. Ban me now or bring back @Lila9 !

@Karmadhi I had arguments with you and you showed yourself as extremely biased, unreasonable and lacking in understanding.

I have no problem listening to you and increase my objective understanding. Though in practical reality much of what you say basically comes down to that Israelis need to hold in their breath and die. So at a certain point I and Israelis will have to make a stand. I want my stand to be as less dogmatic and fair as possible but a firm stand nonetheless.

I literally explained here why Israelis tend to be closed off to Palestinians and their (often toxic) supporters. I explained Israeli bias, yet because it’s so infused with love for Israelis/Jews you people don’t like it.

@Leo Gura You should see it at sharing a perspective and giving you valuable insight to your otherwise (really biased) hive mind echo-chamber

@Leo Gura If you mean me, I am sharing incredible insight about Israeli society for your understanding. You value understanding right? In all fairness I think I have shown that, I have no problem humbling my self when a person is intelligent and reasonable. Though some of the people here give Islamic republic of Iran vibes. Guess that’s fine. Honestly I am kinda annoyed and ask for a retraction of the threat. If I cannot post with authenticity you might as well ban me now.

@zazenOke, fair enough The golden insight is that Jews are fighting for their naked survival. This is not a mere bias that can be shaken but is at the very core of every Israeli including very liberal ones. Another insight would be is that Israeli society is like family, very open, socially free, always ready to help or do their duty and from my well-traveled experience it is the most compassionate of all societies when it comes to the elderly, disabled and handicapped people. I’ve seen it, Israeli youngsters would pick up an old slowly walking grandpa and drive him to his home or help him with his groceries. On YT I even heard the story of a low life Russian drug addict who was’t even Jewish. He was picked off the street and stayed at the house of a very normal middle class Israeli family. Can you Imagine, having a drug addict where your children play and sleep. The addict reformed out of gratitude and became an devout orthodox christian, getting his life together. Even Naftalie Bennet, the former PM had a random mentally ill girl stay at his family home. She tragically committed suicide by dressing up in burka and charging at Israeli police with a knife. Israelis are not perfect and also bicker a lot and are sometimes too brazen and rash for my taste. But at the end of the day they create, build and take care of each other. And they get embittered and will close themselves off to the people that want to destroy that.

@zazen Ask yourself WHY Israelis are stubborn on the points you think they’re stubborn. If have the capacity to honestly answer that question, you’ll make your golden insight. Or just join-in on the hive mind spiraling further into the deepest of bias and mushy-mindedness. Your choice.

@Raze humble yourself

Well of course I want to disclose that I am Jewish. It would be more dishonest of me not to. I am not interested in playing games, part of the fun for me on this thread is that I express myself authentically. I wish I wasn’t Jewish so I could support Israel without being accused of self bias yes, “savagery” is an important here. It’s the kind of shit we saw on 7/10. Savagery and the potential for savagery is the main reason I support Israel over Palestinians. If we take savagery out of the equation I would view Palestinians more like Israeli Arabs. I wound want the best for them and protect them against any Israeli racism.

Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit.

Maybe it’s because he so Americanized and appeals to tacit American cultural and social sensitivities.

Ben Gvir and Smotrich as elected officials is a new phenomenon in Israel. Historically Israel’s leader were very down to earth and uncorrupted (they had to be for survival of the country), I can still see this integrity within the center left. Ben Gvir and Smotrich are so dense and self defeating its a matter of time before they get voted out again. Because in democracies governments change! Even Netanyahu will eventually go. There is no way I see him surviving the next election. Yet the Palestinians decide to do a horrendous attack and cheer for it, totally dehumanizing themselves and throwing themselves at the feet of a government where Ben Gvir has and Smotrich have some influence. Luckily for the Palestinians, other forces in Israel decision making apparatus are more reasonable and level headed.

Exactly, isn’t it weird that Arab leaders that care for stability and advancement don’t have beef with Israel but only terrorist lunatics led by Iran care for destroying Israel🤔