Artsu

When i say you have consciousness of your self at the end, i simply mean that there is a set of experiences comprising [your] consciousness at any moment, and a different human has a different, though perhaps overlapping, set of experiences. (These experiences are associated with a willing force which can, for instance, move a human body.) I am not suggesting at this stage in the discourse that there is or isn't a unified, coherent "self".

It depends how developed your consciousness is at this point. Do you have spiritual experiences more broadly speaking?

Inquiring into spiritual topics such as these makes you better equipped to dealing with these matters. Spirits will influence you regardless of what you believe about them, though of course if you intentionally try to bring on spirits, their influence will be greater. You will have a better understanding of the way they are influencing you though.

Rape and torture shouldn't exist at all. Know that you will receive joy for the suffering you face, and pain for the suffering you cause when going against love. Also, life in the spirit world, so long as one is in heaven (everyone gets there eventually) is of a far, far greater happiness than life on earth. Persevere, love, grow, pray. Things will get so much better one day.

You don't have to live in the moment. Aren't you always living in the moment? No, be yourself, and be good. Focus on developing yourself, especially spiritually and morally. Grow in love. How do i spend my days? Lately, on this forum.

You're not wrong. As we grow in love, we learn to take seriously the experiences of others. At a certain point of love expansion, there will be so much love that there is no room for the absence of love. The individual becomes perfect, morally speaking. This process continues into life in the spirit world(s).

I sometimes do "flights of transcendence" where i focus on increasing my consciousness, and watching it move through the levels. You just need to observe your internal state and apply intention.

The neuroses may be due to heightened spiritual energy.

It seems the Tao is related to God. Are there some who say they are one and the same?

I've heard of negative effects from meditation. To be safe, i advise switching to a different practice.

So yeah, i won't be using spiral dynamics for the time being. I'll have to wait and see if someone can clear up this confusion.

SD peaks in the 20s? But i read someone else say that if you asked certain questions to college students, and then asked again every 4 years, you would see a progression up the spiral. Yet you say growth tends to stop, and even reverse, at that age?

@Bogdan spirits, including demons, were born human. Good and evil is a spectrum and i don't know if there is a non arbitrary point at which one goes from bad to neutral. A person, generally, is a mix of good and bad, unless they have done away with bad completely. So if this is a spirit, and it is causing trouble, it does not necessarily follow that it is a demon or cannot be reasoned with. The spirit may be more neutral, but providing resistance for some reason or another. Or, i could be misreading the situation entirely, and this is something like a dissociation forming between ego and self, as was suggested.

So... 1 x 100 = 100 x 1, therefore 100 = 1?

If thats the case the ages given were awfully young. (Stage orange at 9 years old) Read the thread to see where I'm at with this. I also have some other ideas in the mix.

Summing up, a distinction should be made between spiral dynamics as the maturation of the individual, and spiral dynamics as the maturation of society. In the latter, people don't necessarily occupy the prevailing societal structure, but rather can be anywhere on the spiral, although with a centre of gravity that characterises the society.

Ohhhh i think i get it now. So i dont think the universal metamodel link at medium.com thst ive been sharing is accurate. Thats what im seeing right now anyway. I think developing through to turquoise actually happens by adulthood, However society also progresses through these stages. It entered orange a few hundred years ago, and was blue for a long time before that. But there are subsets of the population, as isolated individuals and cultures, that occupy higher stages. So the SD that is spoken of here isnt the developmental one, but rather the societal one. I will have to choose a different model to speak about. Unless i can be more certain next time of how it lines up.

While thinking about the diagram, i could see how the stages up to turquoise are the first 20 years of my life. But i thought SD was correlating such that turquoise was age 25, so i think i may have it wrong. But if it is the first 20 years, then that means pretty much any adult is turquoise+, and that doesnt sound right. I might just give up on using SD. It doesnt seem to line up how i thought.

Nothingness might be real but we can never prove it.

You don't know the true definition of those words, that's why you're saying what you are. Not all killing is murder, and most murder doesn't involve death. It is to act maliciously. That goes against love. Can you think of any time when you can go against love - i dont just mean not considering it, but actively going against it - and stilll be doing a good thing?

But you are still adhering to that rule correct? We dont need to know what the rules are, but inquiring into the rules can help one correct their behaviour. General rules include love God and love each other. Then there are more specific rules like do not steal, which is the sin of theft. There are also errors, which are for example doing something you know to be stupid. This could also fall under morality, although it doesn't concern other people, but rather ones relation to the truth.

You misread me. I didnt mean you were worrying, i meant you were worrying me. And there are definitely ways we should and shouldnt behave. But we have free will and there is a lot of acceptable choices we can make.

Man, you're describing these relstionships to a T. ENFP have poor chemistry. Generally there needs to be some other factor over riding type factors for this to be a viable match. However, as an INFJ i have had several male ISFJ friends, so i know these types can connect. Maybe your cognitive functions make the pairing less workable though. Same type relationships are great, however more for relating than complementing. Thus friendship rather than dating makes sense. Don't rule out any type, but as a general rule you should look for INFJ and anyone resembling INFJ. Some say ENFP pairs with ISTJ though. Thats not how it works for me, but maybe its different for different people. Your descriptions work under both compatibility models.

There's another way to define it. You can say that self transcendence is transcendence of the Self with reference to the Self, whereas mystical consciousness does away even with the Self (through something like a realisation of oneness). Or, self transcendence could refer to the entire thing beyond self actualisation.

I disagree. These distinctions are useful at least until level 8.