Gesundheit

Watch documentaries on both and judge for yourself.

Also to master and fully integrate.

Love does not have to make sense

Oh my God! What a ground breaking realization! Time is awareness/growth. This is a huge discovery for me, because it will change the whole approach that I was applying here. Instead of trying to force awareness onto the process, I should let it flow spontaneously with time. The end results are inevitable and guaranteed as long as I'm not resisting. There is no escaping the next level unless I resist by trying to get to the next level. The patterns will unravel automatically once they're no longer necessary, and there will be a point where they're no longer necessary, a point where they have completely achieved their purpose and therefore seen by awareness as pointless. The mistake would be to try to stop the patterns. That's ego, and it won't work. It'll just keep itself at the same level, and maybe shift forms, but not really expand. Do not do awareness. Let awareness do you, and watch. Time + flow = maximum growth Time + resistance = minimum growth Now I realize that this is what Nahm talks about. That guy is a God in and of himself.

@Vlad_ For life to have a point, it must already be a point. But it isn't. Life is a process. It's flowing and flowering. You can't capture any single moment of it and savor it, and think that this is it. You can try, but it won't work. Tl:dr... We keep living until we die, that's the point.

Perhaps we don't have the right ideology.

Cool! And what's a goal but an idea? In a sense, a goal is an imaginary prison that we inhabit until we break out of, and realize it was illusory. So if your goal is freedom, then good luck with that lol. And I'll be free either way, no credits whatsoever to the whole no-ideology thing. I didn't say I knew, I said it doesn't seem. I generally pick up intuitive clues and glue them together and they make my assessments. Again, I don't feel like you actually do. Because I actually am already familiar with everything you are saying cuz I've been following actualized.org for almost 5 years. And now I am proposing a new perspective that even Leo does not seem to have. So you're not really providing an alternative for me, you're actually just repeating what I have been applying in the past few years.

Nice philosophy! Now prove it in practice. Just for fun, and for the sake of Love and Goodness, try a cup of this: Recommended by God, the infinite love. Take your time. Try it, and then come here and read what you have written above. It'll probably make even more sense then.

Freedom from what? And stuck where? These are relative concepts that assume an end goal. So it depends on the goals I have set for myself, and it can be simply my choice to not have a goal and be either ideological or non-ideological, nevertheless. And that would not make me stuck, because there'd be nowhere else I'd want to be. You see? How is that working for you? I am trying to get some point across, but your thinking mind is not getting it. It doesn't seem to me like you have the complete freedom you're talking about. It seems you're "stuck" in some "non-ideological" position which is preventing the understanding I'm offering.

I can let go and detach, and I can also hold on and attach. Both options have always been the case and anyone can choose between either of them because freedom is inherent in reality, not because of lack of ideology. The only difference here is that the freedom will be recognized after that realization instead of being unacknowledged. Non-ideological ideology can help us recognize the already present freedom, but it does not give it to us. Notice that in letting go and detaching yourself from ideology, you won't be able to have an ideology (I mean another ideology next to the one applied), which makes you limited in actuality to freedom. You will become a slave who chooses to wear his cuffs thinking that you're actually free, when in fact, you simply traded one pair of cuffs for another and thought that you've bought freedom. You think that now you finally have the freedom to choose? Well, you've been tricked.

The future is absolute infinity.

@peanutspathtotruth What I said was not hostile. None of it was. I said that you are closed-minded, and that's correct because you're not entertaining the question that I proposed, and moreover you turned this into a personal issue when it wasn't and said that I was rambling and arguing when I'm actually being very serious with this discussion. You started the discussion with me with a question, and I replied to it without any offence to your person even though your intentions were obvious. I have enough emotional maturity to separate the person from the discussion. Show me one example of me being offensive to you here. These accusations are false and I deny them entirely, and in fact I should report you to the mods, but I won't cuz I'm not offended yet. It's absolutely not my problem if someone identifies themselves as ideas and feel offended if someone attacks the ideas, because here all we do is deconstruct ideas. And btw, that's basically what ideologues are about. They feel threatened by the questioning of their narratives and ideologies. I personally don't put any ideas on a pedestal. Everything is to be questioned, and if you can't handle it, then at least remain silent instead of preaching and projecting. And just because you disagree with me, does not make your opinions more correct. You can express your opinions without accusing other persons. And you would do a lot better if you would forget the history you have in your mind of someone and read what they say objectively as if it's your first time reading from them. I may have used a somewhat offensive language in other threads, but most of it is to grab attention, not to attack people, contrary to what you're doing here. Regardless of whether the history you have of others is correct or not, it creates biases, such as this one here. And you end up wasting your time and my time and everyone's time with something that is actually your work to do but you didn't do it for whatever reasons, and it manifested in this conversation.

It has everything to do with it, but honestly you're closed-minded.

That's complete delusion. How do you distinguish between silence and sound?

Can a human take an antibiotic and kill billions of bacteria, and still be in a state of heaven? It doesn't matter, because there is no free will anyway. In my experience, no. In reality, I don't know.

You will keep attaching until you get really hurt, tired, and detach.

You will when you lose all the control you think you have on reality, and discover that no amount of philosophy/thinking can help you regain that control, because it was an illusion all along.

Of course, but that's not the point of this thread. OP is inquiring the stances we have on ideology. Trying to be non-ideological is itself a form of unwillingness to see other world views because it holds firmly only the idea of being non-ideological to be true, when in fact, it isn't. Rather, it's just a non-ideological ideology that does not allow any other ideologies but itself, which is exactly what all ideologies do, and how all them are. Hinduism does not allow any other religion or worldview to exist unless it is in accordance with its rules and a priori. And so are all other ideologies. There is nothing different or special about this, because ideology is inherent in humans who are capable of thinking, and therefore inevitable. I would even argue that it exists in the DNA of all beings, or even more fundamental than that, it exists in the core of all things. But that's too far from here, and apparently even Leo is not ready to hear that, so let's keep it simple and focused.

This is basic enlightenment stuff. Nothing new or nuanced here, honestly. And I most definitely agree with it and encourage everyone to take it seriously because it helped me remove a lot of the unnecessary suffering that I used to cause to myself. When I compare myself to others, it becomes crystal clear to me that I'm at some very advanced level, given the fact that my material life is such a shitty one in comparison, and yet they suffer and I don't. Yet, my life is not the worst thing I can imagine. It could get a lot worse, and I think I'm extremely fortunate to be who I am. In fact, I would not trade my life with anyone, even with you, even though I'm 100% sure your material life circumstances are better than mine. I mean you have a YouTube channel, I can't even afford a new phone. Yes, I have overcome most of my imaginary problems. But I would certainly want to change my life to the better as long as I could. Even though, technically, "better" does not seem to be a real thing. I mean what's better than a healthy body and a peaceful mind? I honestly could not ask for more, but I also would never want for any of that to be removed or taken away from me. I hope that gives you a clearer idea of who I am. And yes, I agree that it's not right to put labels on reality, neither positive nor negative. It's just what it is. Now, beyond that, notice that it's philosophical and not practical at all. Because beyond the labels and prior to them, there's the ground reality, which contains pain and suffering, and also happiness and love and all that.

Love manifests in many ways. Some ways are less attached, and some are more attached. People pleasing is a highly attached/needy form of love, which like you said, is due to scarcity, which I would add that it's ultimately due to fear/self-hatred. Self-love/awareness is a very important part of the recovery process, indeed.

@Mu_ The problem with your approach is that it's usually a straw-man of the discussion at hand. I might be discussing certain points, but then you bring something else up as if it actually diminishes the points being made or ends the discussion somehow. I understand how you make relevant and practical responses, but again, this becomes a straw-man because these responses are not the whole picture. Here, for example, I am talking about the experience of physical pain. And then you come and tell me to do an investigation into the relationship between the mind and physical pain. I don't know why you would bring that up time and time again when I made my point crystal clear that I'm talking about pure physical pain. I understand how deceiving the mind is, and still, I'm in no way claiming that I'm enlightened or above my mind. But this is different, and even you acknowledged that physical pain is not a comfortable/desired experience. But then you return to the same straw-man that it's not really painful except for the mind. And then I return to my original argument that this is silly and unicornical. And then repeat endlessly.

It's not simple except your silence ideology. You think that silence is not an ideology? Well, then, think twice. Anyone can use the same logic and apply it to their ideologies, but that doesn't make anyone non-ideological, or in any lesser degree. I could say that the act of murder is not an ideology. In murder, there is not even the idea of murder or no murder. It's actually pretty simple. I don't get the rambling to be honest. What you're basically saying here is that you can think without thoughts. Well, that'd be some next generation alien technology that I'm not really interested in.

Because an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. And these things are not possible without an identity/mind that maintains them. A system is maintained by identification, simply because otherwise it would dissolve and not be a system anymore and rather a chaotic mess, which is the whole point of ideology, is to maintain the human identity through the sneakiest ways possible and then deny that it has anything to do with that. Self-deception 101. Denial will not make what I said any less true. Whatever angle you look at it, this is the case, and it cannot be otherwise.

I am doing it right here, but you're telling me that I'm not. I am denying the ideas you're suggesting so that I can stay aware and non-ideological, but that in and of itself is just my ideology. I value awareness in the present moment over thinking about past/future. Then again, this value discernment is my enlightenment ideology.

@Barbara You're right. Teal has a video on self-sacrifice being the most selfish thing to do