Gesundheit

See? That's all you do. You deny that you have made a mistake by starting the conversation on this topic. Because you don't want to take responsibility for your own actions and you want to blame me for your own problems. Your perception is too clouded by biases that now you're providing false information. Leo was not advising me. He wasn't even talking with me. I deliberately replied to him, and you deliberately replied to me. That particular post was not directed at you, and you started this conversation. End of discussion. It is okay for many people/women to see a random dick flashed at them, like it or not. This is reality.

Bravo! ?? You nailed it ??

There is a distinction to be made between being gaslit by someone, and being stuck in a victim's mindset. It requires certain levels of maturity and emotional intelligence to be able to see that distinction. Gaslighting is an intentional manipulative behavior that does not consider the best interests of the person who is being gaslit, and often times it aims at hurting them. Being stuck in a victim's mindset is a lack of insight or ability to see what's possible outside of the current paradigms, while denying that that could even be the case. It's very similar to closed-mindedness, except that it has an additional layer of victim persona. Victims can easily confuse the two dynamics, as it is the case in the other thread. And the ones who try to help are usually the ones who get the most trouble. Because how can you get the blind to see? You see? But victims are not just blind like a normal closed-minded person, they're blind and yet they believe that they have perfect sight. And then when you come and tell them that there's something wrong with their lenses, and that they can be cleaned up, you will be called a gaslighter, of course. This confusion is a classic ego-mind survival strategy to maintain itself from dissolution. The ego does not like to be called out on its BS as much as the shadow does not like to be exposed to the light.

@Etherial Cat You initiated this dynamic the moment you tried to impose your limited pov on me. I wasn't even talking to you. However, you compared me to a creep, and told me in an imperative manner not to do that behavior. Look here: This was your first post on this topic. I didn't talk to you first, you did. And you had no right to tell me what I should or shouldn't do, but you let yourself get away with that. I didn't focus on it at the time because I understand and appreciate the fact that people are different. I said that haters will hate in a tongue-in-cheek way. You don't want to accept that what you judge as wrong, is not actually wrong. And you want everyone to be like you, which is not and will never be the case. You're limiting yourself from a larger perspective, so of course you will perceive my attempts to expand yours as condescending, when in fact it isn't. It's just a desire to share an understanding. I don't only think that you're stuck in victim mentality, I am 100% sure that you are. It isn't reliable what you think because you can't see your limitations because you're too identified/occupied with your pov to be able to look outside of it. I'm telling you that the color red exists, but you can't see it, and moreover, you're trying to blind me and others from that experience. What can I do to make you see it other than telling you to look? The video clearly shows that your perspective is not universal and that there are people that don't share the same problem as you, but you can't accept that that could even be the case. And you want me to buy into your delusions? Sorry, but I just can't. What you're subscribing to here is just delusional thinking, which is why I'm teaching you, because I claim to be an expert on the topic of delusion. And to me, you're clearly deluded. You will probably get offended by anything I say, so that gives me freedom to not sugar-coat my posts anymore. .... TLDR, instead of being a jerk, you could have not initiated this conversation in the first place. And instead of spinning narratives against me and justifying false positions, you could have told me from the beginning that you are not interested in breaking out of victim-hood, or you know, just remained silent. But no, you just want to argue to preserve your pov. And well, for me, there's no point in that sort of thing. It's just a waste of time, as it has always been.

If more Green = quicker collapse of the western empire, then I agree.

It, sure, is a dogma for many people.

@Etherial Cat I will say this frankly, and for the last time, because sugar-coating won't make any difference, as you distort everything I say and interpret it wrong. I did not blame you. You blamed me for trying to help you, which is what victims do. You are stuck in a victim's mindset. And on top of that, you project blame onto me because of your ego, to point your finger at me, instead of turning inwards and reflecting on what I'm saying, so that you can avoid responsibility and stay stuck, which is completely fine by me, as long as you don't throw your BS at me. It makes zero difference to me whether or not you realize what I'm saying here. It's your life, and you're free to lead it however you want. I wanted to help you, and now I've given up. There hadn't been any fruitful conversation between the two of us from the moment I've joined this forum. There's probably a gap or a mismatch between us, and I'm not interested in fixing it anymore. Deceive yourself however you want, do whatever you want to do, and be whoever you want to be. But don't throw your BS at me because I will not tolerate it. You are a victim, and you blame others for your own problems. That's the harsh truth, like it or not. I've said everything that I had to say, and provided all the essential information for you to break out of that mindset. If you don't find my advice helpful, have the dignity to just move on without casting your fears/blame onto me. This is a personal development forum, and I am giving personal development advice. Others have been doing the same thing in less direct ways but you're refusing to listen. Now I'm outta here.

I know you probably won't like reading this, but I think you're actually gaslighting yourself into a victim's position by not taking the responsibility to acknowledge the power of your own role (your mind) in this dynamic. This happens to many people who identify with the whole trauma & healing narrative that is popular these days. The truth is that most traumas are not external. The internal process of interpretation is often times the actual source. This is a very basic self-help concept, 100% responsibility for everything. Leo says in his videos about responsibility that they're one of the most foundational ones, and he's absolutely right. You may not like that particular form of behavior, and therefore find it offensive, but that doesn't mean that it is inherently bad or objectifying to women. That means that there's probably a deeper reason why you're interpreting it this way, because it is evident that other women interpret it differently. And you have to accept this fact, because it is a fact that not everyone finds such behaviors offensive or objectifying. It is very likely that your mind is trying to deny the perspectives of others and demonize how they react to the same thing. It's even more likely that you have had sexual-related abuse/traumatic experiences in the past. What I was suggesting is that you do Shadow Work into that, even though it is absolutely not your fault. The whole point of shadow work is to switch narratives from hurt to empowered. The mind is extremely powerful and deceptive that it will likely spin this against me once again as if I'm trying to hurt you, when in fact I'm trying to help you and empower you. You just don't know how empowered you can be. And I am trying to give you power over your mind and life. Why? Because it's unlikely that those behaviors that you don't like will stop in this lifetime, if ever. So you gotta deal with reality as it is instead of just being resentful about it, because resentment is an inferior emotion that won't get you anywhere except stuck in a victim's position. I understand if this may be a hard pill to swallow, and I'm not saying that you have to do what I'm saying. I'm just showing you what's possible (from experience) and the rest is up to you. Don't try to spin narratives on me here. I did not advise anyone to send their pics. The context was different and I was offering an experiment to prove a point. I have no obligation to explain why I said what I said because it's not illegal or against forum guidelines, so that's just on you. Prude? Again, your mind creating narratives. And yes, absolutely, it doesn't cause any harm unless you want it to (unconsciously). And I still do think that it's an ego problem. I don't judge the ego, so there's no holier than thou or anything like that on my side. It's just the cold truth that you have an ego around these issues, which is why it's manifesting in negative judgements, resentment, and possibly even fear. If you overcome the ego, you will overcome all of that. Finally, I absolutely don't care whether you apply my advice or not, nor do I actually care whether you actually benefit from it. But we're on a personal development forum, and I'm gonna keep offering personal development advice as long as I'm here. If you don't want to develop yourself in certain areas, that's fine, but don't come at me again and say that I am gaslighting you because I will not take that lightly and I will expose the unconscious ego behind this spinning narrative behavior. Instead, just say that you are not interested in developing yourself in this particular area, or don't say anything at all. This is my ego speaking here, and I acknowledge and embrace it. I could easily play the same game you're playing and appeal to a certain trauma & healing narrative, that you're being verbally abusive by calling me a gaslighter, but that would not do me any good, and it would probably make you even more defensive, which would defeat the whole point of my advice. Before you reply, if you're going to, remember the context here is personal development. This is not a victim's space for airing complaints, nor is it a show off competition for who knows more, nor is it a hierarchy of leadership and followership. Get your expectations right before you go around spreading narratives.

That I don't know anything.

Vs.

Real life experience of how selfish and manipulative humans can be. Studying history from different sources. Epistemology. Studying human psychology. High awareness of oneself and one's own devilry. And even then, you won't likely be 100% immune. The most important thing I have found is learning about logical fallacies because social media thrives on using them all the time, because most people are logically gullible, and therefore easily manipulated emotionally. I've read a book about it in my original language, and I recommend everyone to really invest their time in deeply understanding and embodying the information provided. I'm sure there's a good number of books in English on this one topic. It falls under the epistemology category, and the reason why I mentioned it in specific is because I think it's the most crucial thing for us at this stage of human development.

You're going to heaven. Amen.

The mother of all books.

Dogmatic like any other ideology, and I don't exclude spirituality.

You haven't done it, Leo. You don't really know what religion is. Sometimes, I wish I could go back in time just to experience what being a true believer is like. It's nothing like anything else. It's maximum heaven, invincibility. Imagine being born within a primitive tribe and without even the possibility of knowing any better. Deep sleep is identical to awakening. But the problem is that it's impossible to get everyone to adopt the same beliefs, because babies are not teenagers, and neither are adults, and male isn't female, etc... If everyone adopted the same beliefs (regardless of content), humanity would have been so much better, I assure you. It's the conflict between values and interests that creates all of our problems, which is devilry & corruption for the most part. One united humanity is always bigger and better than two disagreeing parties. And btw, you have a lot of judgements against religion, which are just your judgements, not ultimate reality. I think I can understand why you have them, it's probably because you gravitate more towards individualism than collectivism. But ultimately, I agree with Connor that religion is inevitable because it's part of God and you are religion, regardless of your content.

To me, it's all Pavlovian conditioning. There is the raw physical sensation/energy, and then there is the imagination. The way attraction works is that the two get lumped together unconsciously, and that results in a feeling of horniness. Similar to the feeling of hunger; there is the raw physical sensation, and there is the imagination of which foods are better, healthier, and more delicious. Attraction is created & maintained rather unconsciously by linking certain images/appearances to that raw energy. Why certain appearances and not some others? I would say part of it is inherited, and part of it is learned during early childhood, and part of it is learned from experience and exposure to different perspectives. And of course, survival plays a role in this too. We are biased towards certain appearances (physical or non-physical) based on what we subconsciously perceive as best for our survival. To deconstruct all that is to unlink the physical sensation and separate it from thoughts. Apparently, it requires a lot of awareness to pull that off, but nevertheless it seems doable. I get windows of higher awareness every now and then, but then I experience backlashes. It's a work-in-progress kind of thing.

That's nice on paper, but unfortunately it doesn't work on terrorist bombers (random example), unless you're ready to be blown up.

@Carl-Richard probably won't like me saying this, but the map is not the territory. Leo is offering maps for the ones that are looking for maps, because that's his life purpose, and the scenario is win-win. He's living a meaningful & profound life, and people who are looking for answers will find them through his work. You're asking if there is an obligation for everyone to follow this path. And the answer is of course not, because it's all relative. You can stop following this path if it doesn't resonate with you anymore. There is no objective goal for everyone to achieve. It ultimately comes down to the question: What do I want out of life? Find out your most authentic desires and work on actualizing them, or don't. There's absolutely no obligation for you to be or do anything unless you have the desire to make it happen.

@cannedsoup All of life is a mystical experience. What Leo and others refer to as mystical experiences is just altered states of the original mystical state of consciousness, which is called ordinary life. The laughter was probably due to the no-mind interval, because the mind naturally imposes seriousness. No-mind experiences can be triggered when the mind is too overwhelmed/overworked/faced with paradoxes/challenged with a new paradigm or understanding.

Well, if you say so. Good application of self-love ??

Is exactly what someone at stage Green would say. The question is have you integrated stage Blue in the first place? Or are you just bypassing it through non-duality?

Cute, but you don't know Islam. Go live in a Muslim country and be a real Muslim like them first, and then claim to be Muslim. Right now, you're just a stage Orange youtuber transitioning into a Green hippy. Embodying Islam is really hardcore that even Muslims can't keep up with it and most of them just settle for the label "Muslim". But to be a real Muslim is a serious challenge. It's extremely strict and disciplined that your ego will eventually get shattered and die if you apply everything wholeheartedly.

Thanks for the interesting read! I can relate.

I share my experience and expose my vulnerable side in the hopes of offering you something potentially useful, and then you accuse me of gaslighting. Maturity levels sky-rocketing.