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@Username I don't think it's pointless. It's important that we talk about the stages with a shared understanding to limit confusion and mislabeling which could lead others (and ourselves) astray in our developmental journeys. I've heard Wilber speak to center of gravity in many contexts, a few quotes below. Perhaps he also talks about grammatical structure, but I'm fairly confident that is not how he determines one's Integral Dev stage (could be wrong). "Most educated adults are capable of a teal or turquoise level of cognition; but of those who have turquoise cognition, their self or center-of-gravity might be at turquoise, or green, or orange. So you can be turquoise or second tier in your cognition—your “talk”—but your center-of-gravity—your “walk”—might be at several different levels, orange to green to turquoise itself. In general, those with a center-of-gravity at turquoise are about 0.5% of the population; green, about 25% of the population; and orange, about 40% of the population. But what this really means is that, no matter what your center-of-gravity might be (orange or green or turquoise), you can light up turquoise cognition, and every time you do, it acts as a magnet on the other lines, helping to pull them up as well. And you light up turquoise whenever you use a second-tier model, such as AQAL, and begin to think about how it might apply to any situation. Even better is to use AQAL as an integral praxis or practice, but simply thinking about it and talking about it (or blogging about it) will light up turquoise and help you move more permanently to that wave." Ken Wilber “The ladder is much higher than the climber, who remains committed to the lower rungs. It’s one thing to tap into a higher level; quite another to actually live there! And the same thing can happen with spiritual experiences. People can temporarily access some very high rungs in the ladder or circle of awareness, but they refuse to actually live from those levels—they won’t actually climb up there. Their center of gravity remains quite low, even debased” ― Ken Wilber, A Brief History of Everything

@Username Thanks for clarifying. I tend to determine one's stage (as well as my own) via "center of gravity." Which stage has the highest percentage of one's gravity? I'm not sure why only having 10% Yellow would make someone Yellow, since we could also say that same person has 10% Orange, but we wouldn't consider them Orange. Let me know your thinking on this.

@Username From my POV, Leo is not "higher than Turquoise." He's exactly where he says he is: mostly Yellow and moving into Turquoise. Just because one has awakened to Stage Turquoise or Coral insights does not mean they are actively embodying that nor are grounded in that stage. Building Leo into some false god feels unproductive and dangerous.

@Hyacinth Read a ton of Stage Yellow content, books, podcasts. Study all the various maps of developmental psychology. Consider integrating your stage Blue shadows via a mystic branch of the religion you were raised in. Christianity? If so, check out Richard Rohr, a great stage Yellow Christain mystic. I wrote a bit about my journey from Orange to Green to Yellow, if you're interested in reading: https://tuckerwalsh.medium.com/a-map-for-my-younger-self-bfa1dcd22243

Coaching, guiding, consulting, therapy, some academia, some tech industry sectors, some business / corporate training or advising, transpersonal psychology, content creators like Leo, Rebel Wisdom, Integral Life, etc.

Have you seen the movie Soul? It's basically about this topic. Amazing film (don't overlook it just because it's animated).

@Mu_ Will do. Just to share, from my understanding this seems to contradict one of Leo's central teachings, which is that what I am experiencing right here right now is all there is. This is the entire Universe. There is nothing else except what is in my direct experience, whether that's a "human" view or anything else. Is this a misunderstanding of Leo's teaching?

@Mu_ Thank you for your response to my question. I'm still not clear though and wondering if you can help clarify. Is it correct to interpret what you're saying as, "The awareness that is experiencing this present moment is not aware of other present moments happening elsewhere?" Apologies for the confusion.

@Mu_ Yes, but that example involves me, which is right here right now. I was asking about somebody else like my cousin in Georgia. If he gets his penis cut off, and I don't know about it, did it actually happen?

@The0Self Can you clarify these two points? Not sure I'm following, but I sense they're important. Thank you.

@Leo Gura I guess the question is whether the "other" as a figment of God's imagination can experience suffering outside of the direct experience that is right here right now. Or the simpler question, is there anything other than what's right here right now? From how I've understood your teachings as well as my own insights via psychedelics, the answer is perhaps no. But I could see how that knowledge could lead to some twisted places, or at least twisted in the construct of what society deems to be twisted. Or twisted in how the ego hijacks this absolute truth and uses it to reorient life in a sociopathic way. Please let me know if I'm misunderstanding something.

I have had the thought run through my mind in the past that goes something like this: "This is all a Dream, and all that exist is in my direct experience right here right now (as per Leo's Guided Exercise for Realizing You Are God video). Therefore if I kill myself there will be no family and friends that I leave behind who will grieve me because they are just an illusion, and they will cease to exist once the dream of Tucker dies. Therefore, my suicide will not cause any pain or suffering because there is literally no one else to experience this pain and suffering." A part of me still wonders if this line of thinking has aspects of truth or not. I'm sharing this so that it can be discussed and hopefully clarified rather than me just repressing these half-baked ideas into my shadow. Thank you.

Thank you!

@RendHeaven I know, that's why I'm asking Leo because I want to know what advice myself would have for myself But thank you for your reply and appreciate your words

@Leo Gura I've realized God Consciousness a couple times via psychedelics in the past year. Your latest video helped reaffirm this experience. Thank you 1. What does one do after they've realized This but are not stabilized in any "nondual" state typically associated with Enlightenment? Should I even pursue classical Enlightenment at this point, or is that just more illusion? 2. Are there other teachers who speak of the same Truth illuminated in your video? Ramana Maharshi? Nisargadatta Maharaj? Any modern day teachers you could point to (besides you)?

It seems every stage of the Spiral is focused on saving something. Stage Yellow is obsessed with building maps to save humanity from existential threats. Is Stage Turquoise the first stage of the Spiral where something is not trying to be saved, fixed, controlled? Stage Beige: Save myself. Stage Purple: Save my tribe. Stage Red: Save my power. Stage Blue: Save my religion and my community/country/ethnicity. Stage Orange: Save our economy and my freedom. Stage Green: Save Mother Nature and our toxic society. Stage Yellow: Save humanity from existential threats. Stage Turquoise: Savor the moment?

Yeah but it's fun. Let us play!!

@Nahm Thank you.

@Nahm I've been pondering your contemplation via Jesus, and honestly I'm not sure if it's fully registering. I do find that funny actually but probably not for the reasons you meant Do you mind restating or expressing in a different way? Thank you

@cigologic Love Fred! Hoping to book an Awakening Session with him. Really enjoyed his 12 Steps book.

@RendHeaven Yeah just to clarify, I'm not talking about trying to "get" to Turquoise. I don't claim to be anywhere near there yet. It's more of a conflict between the Strategist stage and Construct/Ego Aware (using SCG model).

@Nahm @Leo Gura I've been wondering recently if the map is creating my territory. I first got into Spiral Dynamics, Ego Development, Integral Theory, etc a little over a year ago after an out-of-body mystical experience that somehow transitioned me into early Yellow. For the past year I've diving head deep into all these maps essentially putting myself through developmental psychology school. It's been fascinating, and I'm super passionate about it. But after several God consciousness psychedelic ego death experiences in the past year, I found myself in the Construct/Ego Aware stage which has been illuminating yet certainly destabilizing. I have a story that I need to "work through the Yellow / Strategist stages" before I can/should further focus on awakening. But I'm starting to deconstruct all these maps and wonder how much of them are creating my reality vs guiding me through actual reality. The challenge is I feel I have one foot in two worlds: one in Yellow that wants to focus on mapmaking and solving all the existential problems in the world while further self-actualizing, and one foot in the nondual world that wants to focus on deconstructing everything that's creating this "I" story and fogging deeper awakenings. Perhaps I can do a little bit of both, but in a sense they seem like polarities - one is constructing and the other deconstructing. Is staying identified with the ego and spending a year or more deepening into Yellow a worthy pursuit, or will I just be adding more shit to my bag that I eventually need to let go of? And if so, what's the point? Is the map, at this point, simply creating my territory? It certainly feels like that, at times. Grateful for any advice or guidance.

@Nahm BOOM. Mic drop I guess when "I" experience there being no more stages I will stop asking these types of questions

An easy way to do this is to switch from “you” to “we”. For example, instead of saying, “You have no what the nature of reality is” one could say “we humans often have no idea what the nature of reality is.” It makes it inclusive and doesn’t presume that one knows everything about the person watching. It feels invitational rather than confrontational. Could really help in softening the delivering, though I’m not even sure that’s Leo’s intention...