Kelpie

@Nahm but I don't think I'm suffering. I recently discovered that simply going out and enjoying nature more puts my mind at peace. It's human society and all man-made creations, artificial, meaningless and ugly, that has been the root of all my suffering. And again, how can you prove that we are all one, and not just individual consciousnesses believing we are all one? If the temperature of the Earth's atmosphere rose by 50 degrees, I don't think suffering would be an option no matter what I believed or could create with my mind :-). As for your argument that we create our reality, I again argue that it is much more likely we subjectively perceive an objective reality, because if all of existence was indeed created by my consciousness, it should be completely random, rather than an orderly experience.

I don't think this is all there is, just all that we can experience. I think there is an unimaginably infinitely complex objective reality that happened to produce beings of consciousness like us. We just happen to be so lucky that this objective reality, aka "God" in my mind, is benevolent(for lack of a better word), by enabling consciousness to experience pure infinite love instead of pure horror and randomness. I am open-minded to changing my beliefs, but after reading many stories told by people on psychedelics, it seems much more likely that their state of mind was altered by the drugs to BELIEVE they are God, and consciousness is all that exists, rather than that being the underlying truth.

@Member ok if I am God and you are God, then we are all God are we not? @ traveler what I mean by randomness is, why does our consciousness not fluctuate between experiencing all possible worlds at all times? Why do we not jump from experiencing as a human one moment, to a bingo ball the next, to a prime number the next, to some unimaginable entity our consciousness cannot even fathom the next, etc etc, instead of experiencing the human experience continuously? I don't think you are really understanding what i mean by randomness. also, after reading many stories of NDErs, I believe that when we die, we do experience unconditional love and merge with a universal consciousness. All this still does not disprove of an objective reality that we cannot fathom.

Ok, I am God and God is me, doesn't really tell me anything, except that I am myself(aka God). And are you God as well?

An atom does not need to perceive spacetime to exist. Furthermore, we have no idea what an atom is. Imagine if we shrunk 10^10000 times in size. An atom would then become an unimaginably large universe, and details about its structure on unimaginably small scale would reveal itself to such an observer that perceives not through human senses of sight limited to an infinitesimally small sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum, but perhaps through senses we cannot fathom. If by God you mean yourself, then the statement, "we are all God" becomes "we are all ourselves" and loses all it's grandeur don't you think...?

Consciousness to me seems not all-knowing and omniscient, but the EXACT OPPOSITE. Infinitely limited in its perception.

Spacetime is certainly a mind construct, but I never said objective reality needs to have either qualities. If it exists, objective reality is completely beyond any consciousness's ability to fathom. But how can you prove it does not exist? Also, people on this forum throw around the word God very loosely. What do you mean by God?

My question to people who have attained enlightenment, how can you distinguish between 1- An objective reality exists, it cannot be known or understood, and we simply believe we are god because as beings of consciousness, our own subjective reality is all we can ever know, and 2- Objective reality does not exist, and only consciousness exists.

To me, existence is something that cannot be known or understood. I currently believe, but acknowledge I may be wrong, that an infinitely complex objective reality does exist but it cannot be known by any consciousness.

I would like to believe that there is a higher entity in objective reality, beyond any possible imagination, that is "benevolent" in nature precisely because we are not experiencing pure horrific randomness rather than order, instead of us each being God.

In mathematics, there are an infinite number of sizes of infinity. The integers are the smallest size, the irrational numbers the next smallest size. It seems to be the number of random realities should be the largest possible size of infinity, and the number of orderly realities the smallest size of infinity. And yet here we are dreaming of an orderly world.

Yes I understand your argument, I just don't agree with it at all.

I'm sorry synchronicity, I don't think we are really understanding each other.

According to this forum, worlds do not "exist", only consciousness dreaming of the world. So again, why do we perceive an orderly world our entire "life" or "dream", whatever you want to call it, when our reality could have collapsed into randomness at any point?

All right. then tell me, if consciousness exists to "experience" without regard to whether its experience is orderly or random, where can you find a consciousness that is experiencing pure randomness?