jbeckk

@Leo Gura I agree with you that people should be free to twist models or whatever but I find it very important that the people doing so are explicitly telling their audience that they are also adding their subjective opinion on it. Also, I do think that Ken Wilber has not only made contributions to Spiral Dynamics, but also added things to the theory that really changed its original meaning. The whole idea of seeing the spiral as a way of self-development (aka higher better) was not present in Graves original work. As far as I am concerned, he saw the different stages of consciousness inherently connected to their environment and the new ones emerge out of necessity, not simply out of progress/improvement. That there are ever higher spiritual levels might very well be true, but this model encompasses so much more than just spiritual development. Here are some resources that in my opinion undermine this point:

I thank you for your anwser. We cannot live like stage purple anymore but i think we must integrate a lot of aspect of this way - our natural way of living - into our current world. I feel like stage purple values have not really been integrated yet, what do you think?

Many we cant. Maybe we have gone too far and our civilisation - like all civilisations before - will come to an end and collapse. This actually is not that farfetched.

I am currently finishing high school and i start thinking about what i want to do after my gap year. I am looking for a program that promotes holistic understanding and enables me to understand global connections. An interdisciplinary program would probably be appropriate. So I'm looking for a bachelor's degree or something along those lines that you can do with a high school diploma. I'm currently searching the internet for such programs, and would like to get inspired by your suggestions. I would greatly appreciate it if you know of any such programs or universities, send them in. Dont hesitate and send in anything that could help others. Lets make this a threat for high consciousness university programs so that we young people can educate ourselves! Here is an older thread which proposes above all masters degrees:

To me it seems like the idea of progress is not necessarily something positive but just something that happens out of nessecity. Earlier ways of life were less complex but also much more satisfying. Of course, we can't live in such ways today because our world is far too overpopulated. For example, life in stage purple was arguably much better (better health, better social contacts, more exercise) and for this one didnt have to work 40 hours a week. The transition to other stages did not lead to more satisfaction, it was only necessary to continue functioning as a society. However, today progress is seen as something worth striving for. I think we have to realize that progress has not made us happier and therefore progress as something is only needed in extreme survival situations, because it is something insanely exhausting and many things get lost along the way. Of course, now that we are already in progress we can't just stop with the many crises we are currently facing. Will it be possible to solve our problems with further progress or has it been shown that we are going in the wrong direction and quality of life is decreasing more and more? Will tier two really save us or is it possible that we have reached the end of progress, the end of civilization?.

I am in high school too and i feel you! But when really observing yourself, you are the one creating the suffering. The suffering is not out there, it is only an interpretation of the external. So maybe there are some anxious parts of yourself on which you can work on or maybe its just the procrastinating (which it is for me, it makes my life so much harder). The suffering will not be gone when you are out of school, the suffering is created by your mindset, see it as a spiritual practise to do your school work mindfully and you will get a lot stronger on the way..

At the level that our society is at at the moment, late stage capitalism holds us back. A system in which the participants sole motivation is to gain something for himself creates a lot of problems in the world. Imagine an altruistic economic system where the goal of an "organisation" is to help society (selfish rewards are only a byproduct). The capitalist internet makes us very unaware and addicted. Also a lot of mental health problems are being created by this system: from young on we are being drilled and told that were only worth something if we are productive. Our working environment makes us depressed. Not to mention the ecological damage the system creates. The fastest way to increase consciousness on a global scale is to evolve capitalism into a more sustainable system. A system in which anyone is worth equally, where the people, not just the rich democratically decide.

Can someone explain the "connection" between spirituality and socializing? Could one call socializing a spiritual practice because it involves facing your fears(if you are anxious) and staying present(otherwise you cant socialize)? And will one become more or less social with increased levels of consciousness? I feel like a person getting more aware should have more fun socializing and it should become easier because they get more empathic etc. But as far as i know most high consciousness people dont socialize a lot? They mostly spend time alone. Does a decreased ego cause more or less socializing?

The consciousness scale of david r hawkins puts humor at the level of around 550, which is the level of joy. So being humorous is a symptom of being at a certain level of consciousness. As far as i am concerned, reaching higher states of consciousness goes hand in hand with taking life less seriously (which most probably makes you more humorous)

I am an 18yo old boy from western europe. Im currently in highschool and have been struggling a lot since getting into it. In the first year i noticed how i didnt have any social skills, making me kind of depressed because i wasnt able to connect to people (i also held myself back because i felt like i was something better than most of them). Also i dont have any discipline which makes school very stressful. First i got into self help, only theoretically understanding it without taking any action, then later into spirituality. I am very passionate about it but somehow i still dont put anything into practise. I feel like my misinterpretation of some spiritual principles, which i didnt fully understand, left me worse off. For example i often told myself that i should be happy without needing anything external, leaving me isolated and actively holding myself off of socalizing(because i felt like it is bad to have fun with others if you cant have fun on your own). And sometime i look around myself, seing people that clearly did not think as much as i did but still they are way happier and more productive than me. Also a big one is taking "being" as an excuse to be depressed/lazy. I subconsciously just want to do nothing and i tell myself i just wanna "be" but actually its just low consciousness behaviour because i dont have motivation to do anything. And now i dont really know in which direction to go in, should i totally shut myself off of spirituality or work to dissolve my ego even if my ego right now clearly is disfunctional?